|
As we're starting to see more and more archon play, I can't wait to see some of the innovations people come up with.
A possible trick that I was wondering about would be sneaking 4-6 dts into the back of someone's base, ideally where they have no vision and morphing them into 2-3 archons to do worker harass.
Do you think it would be more/less effective than just sneaking un-morphed dts?
Have you seen this play/tried it on ladder before?
Thanks for your input (I obviously don't play protoss),
Elgran.
/edit
It would seem to me that this might be viable against z, as mutas/lings are the units with the most mobility to respond to dt harass, and both are weak against archons.
Just a thought.
/edit number 2
I am aware that archons can cloak. I wasn't suggesting they could, but judging from a couple of the comments somehow it has been understood that I was.
|
If you made 1 behind their mineral line and then 1-2 near the ramp you might be able to kill them all the drones when they stack up if the zerg tries to pull them to another base. Other than that it would be way more effective to just have 6 DTs.
|
Does not sound viable. two dark templars has huge dps compared to one archon and all the workers will run away anyways so then you go for buildings and then cloak+higher damage is obviously superior.
edit: also having multiple unit is an a part of what makes it good, you hide them in corners and whatnot and since they have cloak it's always costly in apm to remove them for your opponent and also costly in army travel time and often minerals and gas as well. This is a big part of the harass not to be taken lightly
|
I think this has potential if used as part of the dt expand build against zerg. If the zerg is still only able to build lings, archons do FAR better against them than dts. At the very least, you may end up doing more indirect damage (use of larva on units rather than drones) than if you just used dts. Perhaps I'll try it out later.
|
maybe i'd morph one where there's detection, to try to make them move their workers to another base, then in THAT base have dts
|
I was thinking that this might be good against a Terran player w/ Planetary Fortress + Turret. The archon can deny mining while staying out of range of the PF, while on the other hand, DT's have to go in range of the PF to attack.
EDIT: One thing to note is that upgrading your archons makes a pretty big deal here. Against Protoss, it will always take 2 hits to kill workers. However, +2 attack will make archons strong enough to 1-shot drones (even with +3 armor) and +3 attack vs SCVs will let archons 1-shot them as well unless the SCV's have 3 armor too.
|
On July 29 2011 15:38 Baby_Seal wrote:
I was thinking that this might be good against a Terran player w/ Planetary Fortress + Turret. The archon can deny mining while staying out of range of the PF, while on the other hand, DT's have to go in range of the PF to attack.
EDIT: One thing to note is that upgrading your archons makes a pretty big deal here. Against Protoss, it will always take 2 hits to kill workers. However, +2 attack will make archons strong enough to 1-shot drones (even with +3 armor) and +3 attack vs SCVs will let archons 1-shot them as well unless the SCV's have 3 armor too.
I hadn't thought about this application, but it makes sense: especially because I was thinking that if there was any viability in this use of DTs it'd be closer to the late game, when a lot of t have pfs as their last mining bases.
|
Archons are easier to see than DTs.
|
On July 29 2011 15:37 _hate wrote:
maybe i'd morph one where there's detection, to try to make them move their workers to another base, then in THAT base have dts
Harvester herding! I've tried that a couple times with nukes/drops, but without much luck.
Another thing to think about is the cost-effectiveness of this. It would really depend on the static defenses/unit compositions of your opponent whether the dts would be more effective unmorphed or morphed (250/250).
|
On July 29 2011 15:36 KazeHydra wrote:
I think this has potential if used as part of the dt expand build against zerg. If the zerg is still only able to build lings, archons do FAR better against them than dts. At the very least, you may end up doing more indirect damage (use of larva on units rather than drones) than if you just used dts. Perhaps I'll try it out later.
Let me know how it goes!
Thanks for your input
|
2 DTs > 1 archon.
And Archons can't cloak.
|
|
|
United Kingdom10823 Posts
I'd quite like to see a mixture of the two options. Say, have 2 DTs hit an expansion, and when they move their workers away, have 2 archons standing to the side and just wreck the worker train
|
Russian Federation164 Posts
I've been thinking about it lately, but still DTs IMO are favored
- 2 DTs > 3(almost 4!) Archons DPS-wise
- +cloak
- DT's are tiny and mobile - easier to sneak away
Besides, 4+ DTs just rip mineral line apart in seconds.
Even if he pulls workers away, you stopped mining for awhile.
As for Archons:
-Could be used as a damage buffer, but whenever any defense arrives, u r dead anyways
-Splash damage, but with less then 4-5 Archons it's just ridiculously low
Soooo.. IDK, maybe in combination with warp prisms.. Like, hit-run, heal up, hit-run..
Because after 1-2 attacks with DTs 98% opponents get detection, and DT's will just melt
I must be missing smth, Archons should be somewhat efficient :/
P.S. Sorry for bumping, but theme is rather interesting + 1.4.0 changes P harasses a bit
|
On September 30 2011 22:37 Elefes wrote:
I've been thinking about it lately, but still DTs IMO are favored
- 2 DTs > 3(almost 4!) Archons DPS-wise
- +cloak
- DT's are tiny and mobile - easier to sneak away
Besides, 4+ DTs just rip mineral line apart in seconds.
Even if he pulls workers away, you stopped mining for awhile.
As for Archons:
-Could be used as a damage buffer, but whenever any defense arrives, u r dead anyways
-Splash damage, but with less then 4-5 Archons it's just ridiculously low
Soooo.. IDK, maybe in combination with warp prisms.. Like, hit-run, heal up, hit-run..
Because after 1-2 attacks with DTs 98% opponents get detection, and DT's will just melt
I must be missing smth, Archons should be somewhat efficient :/
P.S. Sorry for bumping, but theme is rather interesting + 1.4.0 changes P harasses a bit
I don't see how 1.4 allows this bump...
DTs > Archons for harass
|
The only time this is viable is in monobattles when you have Archons.
|
Russian Federation164 Posts
On October 01 2011 00:02 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 22:37 Elefes wrote:
I've been thinking about it lately, but still DTs IMO are favored
- 2 DTs > 3(almost 4!) Archons DPS-wise
- +cloak
- DT's are tiny and mobile - easier to sneak away
Besides, 4+ DTs just rip mineral line apart in seconds.
Even if he pulls workers away, you stopped mining for awhile.
As for Archons:
-Could be used as a damage buffer, but whenever any defense arrives, u r dead anyways
-Splash damage, but with less then 4-5 Archons it's just ridiculously low
Soooo.. IDK, maybe in combination with warp prisms.. Like, hit-run, heal up, hit-run..
Because after 1-2 attacks with DTs 98% opponents get detection, and DT's will just melt
I must be missing smth, Archons should be somewhat efficient :/
P.S. Sorry for bumping, but theme is rather interesting + 1.4.0 changes P harasses a bit I don't see how 1.4 allows this bump... DTs > Archons for harass
What I mean is Warp Prisms are much more useful now, therefore, with decent APM, Protoss could harass with Archons and retreat with ease. DTs just die painfully fast, difficult to use them not in a kamikaze mode, and.. You know, 125/125*4 is a lot -.-
Still that's theory-crafting.. I agree that DTs are better for harass. Keep in mind I'm a poor player.
|
I am aware that archons can cloak. I wasn't suggesting they could, but judging from a couple of the comments somehow it has been understood that I was.
Mind. Blown.
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 03 2011 19:57 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +I am aware that archons can cloak. I wasn't suggesting they could, but judging from a couple of the comments somehow it has been understood that I was. Mind. Blown.
Mothership recall harass bro
you are behind on the meta-game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
