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Does anyone else think that Bio feels too....squishy and weak against the Protoss firepower in the late game? It just doesn't feel right... When smart Toss like MC open Templar, and then switch to Colo, it is very hard to deal with that because you have no vikings.
I just want to play Mech man....rows of siege tanks, raining fire on Protoss.. Thors and Vikings for support...with some Ghosts sprinkled in to EMP...I just wanna siege those big bad boys and rip 'em a new one. I just want that!
Is there really no way?  (( I feel like the transition period is such a big window for the Toss to kill you...Other than that, Blink Stalkers, Chargelots, Immortals..too many things designed to destroy them tanks. You're also too immobile...Toss has all the room to tech, expand like crazy and decorate his main with rows of gateways.
So, good TL netizens..Anyone else feels the same? What really would help Mech truly viable ? (aside from obvious mistakes made my P players) Is there anyone else sharing my cries?
 
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I think that lzgamer has a mech build against toss, give me a few minutes and I'll try to find it!
I play mech against toss but I'm not gonna give you my shitty replays, no reason to study plat players
HERE IT IS: LzGaMeR's awesome replays
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I've seen some people try to mech vs toss... but not with much success. Siege tanks just don't do the same damage they used to do in BW, and the meaty toss units are usually able to win in a straight up fight.
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I think if you want to play mech you have to mix ghosts in it because there is no vessel in SC2 and you need emp.If you hit your emps there is no way toss ground forces to beat mech.Its more hard to play mech thats why nobody plays it in top levels why risking losing when you can get bio and just have 1 good concave and some emps to win.Just like it is in PvP why bother with some risky builds when you can 4gate and force the other dude to 4gate himself.
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If you want to mech then mech. Make it work. I think the future of tvp involves lots of blue flame hellions making chargelots obsolete + tanks + emp  . Unless you are playing at the very top levels and have actually practiced it as much as MM there is no reason to suspect it isn't viable. Just don't lose a bunch of tanks early on and then wonder why you can't stop the toss army. Even ghosts are cheaper now.
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On July 23 2011 06:27 Wr3k wrote:If you want to mech then mech. Make it work. I think the future of tvp involves lots of blue flame hellions making chargelots obsolete + tanks + emp . Unless you are playing at the very top levels and have actually practiced it as much as MM there is no reason to suspect it isn't viable. Just don't lose a bunch of tanks early on and then wonder why you can't stop the toss army. Even ghosts are cheaper now.
I've done this a few times(mind you, only high Diamond here) and have had decent success. Blue Flame hellions *do* make Zealots evaporate and the tanks will demolish the rest of the toss army fairly efficiently. You have to be very careful, however.
All that said, I can honestly say that mech is a far more enjoyable style. Even if I lose I find it to be a *better* round than 'T' spamming. :p
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Canada5377 Posts
I got an ad for a game called "World of Tanks" on this page so thats kinda funny.
Anyway I've tried to go mech as well and not with any more success than you. Mostly it was problems with super re-max of protoss. You can't really take it as slow as you would like to since you get pretty boned if he sits on a maxed army too long.
Was months ago that I tried to do this, been thinking about another try. >_>
Edit: too -> to
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On July 23 2011 06:38 ChaosWielder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 06:27 Wr3k wrote:If you want to mech then mech. Make it work. I think the future of tvp involves lots of blue flame hellions making chargelots obsolete + tanks + emp . Unless you are playing at the very top levels and have actually practiced it as much as MM there is no reason to suspect it isn't viable. Just don't lose a bunch of tanks early on and then wonder why you can't stop the toss army. Even ghosts are cheaper now. I've done this a few times(mind you, only high Diamond here) and have had decent success. Blue Flame hellions *do* make Zealots evaporate and the tanks will demolish the rest of the toss army fairly efficiently. You have to be very careful, however. All that said, I can honestly say that mech is a far more enjoyable style. Even if I lose I find it to be a *better* round than 'T' spamming. :p
Haha "T" spamming loved it xD
You know what. Season 3, I'm gonna Mech in TvP.
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In the last TSL, I think it was a game with LiquidTyler where Thorzain used mass thors vs a lot of collosus... and it was fucking amazingggggg. It was in one of the later rounds on Xel'Naga. Maybe take a look at that game for some inspiration?
EDIT: LOL whoops. :D I know Tyler played toss. I was also carrying on a convo with someone irl while typing... which leads to fails like that. Also thanks for all the people who remembered it was Thorzain! :D
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Canada5377 Posts
On July 23 2011 06:52 RedJustice wrote:
In the last TSL, I think it was LiquidTyler who used mass thors vs a lot of collosus one game... and it was fucking amazingggggg. It was in one of the later rounds on Xel'Naga. Maybe take a look at that game for some inspiration?
Heh, Tyler had it done to him by Thorzain. It might have been pre Thor nerf too.
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On July 23 2011 06:52 RedJustice wrote:
In the last TSL, I think it was LiquidTyler who used mass thors vs a lot of collosus one game... and it was fucking amazingggggg. It was in one of the later rounds on Xel'Naga. Maybe take a look at that game for some inspiration?
What? Liquid'Tyler plays Protoss. I think you are thinking of Thorzain.
Nevertheless, Thors are awesome IMO. They are basically Mammoth Tanks from Command and Conquer implanted into the world of Starcraft. Considering that I was a C&C fan before being an SC fan, I will always have a place in my heart for the beloved Mammoth Tank.
Anyways, if you are really desperate to play mech in TvP but keep failing to implement it properly, you could always experiment with BW TvP  . You'd be crazy not to go mech in that game.
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Viable is a very broad, encompassing word. I'd say no, not at this point in time, but you can still get some wins off it, but just realize that bio in every stage of the game is better. Early game you can put on pressure, mid game you can do just as well with medivacs, and then late game if you land some great emps and have good spread and a balanced unit composition you can beat a high tech protoss army.
Mech is sort of a unit composition that is decent in the midgame, but fails pretty hard in the early game and late game. It takes a while to tech to, and sometimes you're very vulnerable to rushes, and when the zerg/protoss is able to get higher tech like broodlords and archons/templars it sort of starts to fail pretty badly.
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On July 23 2011 07:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Viable is a very broad, encompassing word. I'd say no, not at this point in time, but you can still get some wins off it, but just realize that bio in every stage of the game is better. Early game you can put on pressure, mid game you can do just as well with medivacs, and then late game if you land some great emps and have good spread and a balanced unit composition you can beat a high tech protoss army.
Mech is sort of a unit composition that is decent in the midgame, but fails pretty hard in the early game and late game. It takes a while to tech to, and sometimes you're very vulnerable to rushes, and when the zerg/protoss is able to get higher tech like broodlords and archons/templars it sort of starts to fail pretty badly.
I agree. For example, you can Marine/Tank decently versus Z. Is there nothing that shits on Marines like Storm/Colossi? Oh boy, there is, banelings and infestors. However, if you have siege tanks, the tide turns. It then becomes a battle of positioning, and knowing when to attack and deal damage to Zerg. In late game, even when Blords come out, if you are expecting for it/scouting it, you can still get some ghosts/vikings in time to stop it. Zerg just cannot steamroll you because BLs are slow, you have enough time to stop them.
I think the core problem is with the way the Protoss race's mobility (along with small maps) .Recently I've been thinking a lot about it and I think warpgate mechanic also adds to this. Protoss is much more mobile than in BW with warpgates and smaller maps. P units are strong anyway, and after winning an engagement, if there is not enough time to reinforce, you're gonna die horribly. I believe this is also the reason games feel more dull compared to BW games.
Now, in terms of Mech, the above problems also apply. If you go mech, you are still really open to a early warpgate rush. Like if you open straight Mech without some precautions and get 4gated with like 2 tanks and 4-5 helions ready (that you can't bunker in)...you're dead. Add to that the fact that losing a Mech army is extremely, extremely deadly (so costly and so time costing to reinforce) ... Yes it really is not viable. On 5-6 bases, P can make a ton of gateways and save them up to make units after an engagement. In late game, P can reinforce not only ANYWHERE he wants, but almost INSTANTLY. Yes, he still waits for next round of warp-in and is vulnerable during that time, however, does that really matter when you can get 40 supply of units NOW, as opposed to a Mech army's longer build time+travel distances? And plus, just WHERE you want it to be? I think this is an amazing idea, and I really applaud Blizz for thinking about it, but I think we should go back to regular Gateways.
If the maps were really bigger (like double of what it is now), it would give more time to reinforce and safely transition to mech play. If tanks were hitting harder, it would be more of a threat. Whereas now they just get blink stalker/chargelot/immo and can usually do well.
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EPT
