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My Thoughts on EG/Puma - Page 5

Blogs > Liquid`TLO
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 27 28 29 Next All
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
July 22 2011 12:12 GMT
#81
I think the point about Milkis is valid . If he is a translator then he should translate, having opinion pieces going with translations seems unprofessional.
obsKura
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland1061 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:12:44
July 22 2011 12:12 GMT
#82
Very good writeup, Dario. Thanks for your thoughts, mine are very similar.

Besides the whole drama which is going on here some thoughts from myself: Obviously the koreans in general are very pissed about this. I have the concern this thing here could backfire and have such a huge impact on the scene that koreans decide to no longer participate in foreign tournaments or that players who considered going to a foreign team will cancel there plans on doing so.
As far as I know the korean culture is about pride, honor and respect and if you can see on their reactions this thing hit them pretty hard. It is not about the player "stealing" thing itself - I think they would be delighted to receive requests and offers for their players - it's about how this happened - behind the "back" of the coach.

Hopefully the koreans as well as the SC@ esports scene in general has learned from that and player contracts will be mandatory in the future. Only with real contracts including salaries, penalties and all this stuff the scene can be taken more seriously compared to other sports.

I really really hope this issue did not damage the scene...
C9 ~^v^~ In EE-sama we trust. ~^v^~ C9
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
July 22 2011 12:12 GMT
#83
On July 22 2011 20:14 Liquid`TLO wrote:
Every time something like this happens it makes me happy that I am in Liquid.

D'awwwwwwwww TL for life <3

Loving the posts by both TLO and Boss in this thread. So intelligent response, and so honest. Especially Boss, stating them as a team owner.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
July 22 2011 12:13 GMT
#84
Good post TLO, I agree with everything or nearly.
Discovered this blog thanks to my Twitter being spammed haha. I guess agreeing with you makes me a TLO fanboy if I understood correctly.

By the way, did EG released a statement about this ? Or you're referring to the WOC episode (that I haven't seen yet)
Kuni
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Austria765 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:14:51
July 22 2011 12:13 GMT
#85
We shouldn't put any blame on players, it is wrong. They are happy to be able to live their life off of their passion and many of us would do anything to be in their shoes. I think any incontrol hate (or any other hate) has no place here (some are bashing on him in the weapon of choice thread). If something has gone wrong (there's different opinions to say the least), the people in charge are at fault.
I mean who blames puma, a young kid who's been playing starcraft for all his life with dedication, for being interested in earning actual money? He's just like all the other players, being happy to be able to do this and earn a living.

Again ... if something has gone wrong, blame the people responsible on EG, but not incontrol, puma or anyone else -.-
bonus vir semper tiro
wingweaver415
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States66 Posts
July 22 2011 12:14 GMT
#86
Starcraft 2 is a competitive sport, meaning there is alot of competition inside and outside of the game. If its really that big of a deal, why didn't TSL not fight for Puma more?

Bottom line, Puma wanted to join EG or he wouldn't have left TSL, and it was his choice ultimately. There was no contract with Puma and TSL, according to the article http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=245970
So he had every right to join whatever team would sign him. EG didnt force him to join, Puma made that choice, but I don't see anyone getting upset with Puma for accepting the offer so soon...

The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
gideonj
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom11 Posts
July 22 2011 12:15 GMT
#87
+1 to TLO's article. There are lot's of rational reasons why it was "ok" what EG did, but the way they conduct themselves puts me off them as a team. You can't hide douchbaggery behind "it's business" all the time.
thorwashere
Profile Joined May 2011
8 Posts
July 22 2011 12:15 GMT
#88
and this, amongst manyother reasons, is why I love TLO.

yes homo
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 22 2011 12:18 GMT
#89
I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed.

Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter.

Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one?

I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?

This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL?

What if you had read this statement first?

On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.

It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.


I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news.

My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
July 22 2011 12:18 GMT
#90
I didn't have much of an opinion until EG decided to go Fox News on MIlkis like that, just baseless attacks and hammering him into submission. Really sad that this guy was brought out to help remedy the issue and all he succeeded in doing was make EG look like a bunch of assholes.
Benga
Profile Joined October 2010
Korea (South)471 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:23:24
July 22 2011 12:19 GMT
#91
I dont get why there's so much fans and big sponsors for EG.
The managment and the players always bring up controversy.
Plus they focus too much on marketing,shows and just suck at tourneys.
They just talk shit too much
hi
skyride
Profile Joined January 2011
Scotland103 Posts
July 22 2011 12:20 GMT
#92
On July 22 2011 21:11 kaOz1985 wrote:
thumbs up if you got here via facebook


ups were not in youtube

anyway, good article tlo


Oh no. It has begun.
Tsenister
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom112 Posts
July 22 2011 12:21 GMT
#93
I just hope the Korean SC2 association realises that it's EG playing up slightly unethical on how it runs....

I would be a sad day when Korea/Western world shuts off from each other.

Still like in football players are not supposed to be communicated with without the consent of their agent/manager. However if they are not in contract it's going to happen whether people like it or not.
cybertopo
Profile Joined February 2010
Spain525 Posts
July 22 2011 12:23 GMT
#94
I love TLO and all but this just seems like a "omg, they bullied Milkis, I'll show them!"

I don't know why people (and it doesn't matter if it's TLO or some random dude with 200 posts) think they can express an opinion on something they don't know about.

Has TLO talked to Puma, to TSL, to EG? I don't think so. It is very easy to play when you ahve the home court advantage.
Hurr Durr
WinteRR
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia201 Posts
July 22 2011 12:23 GMT
#95
If anyone has been around the CS scene for at least 8+ years they definitely know one thing: avoid Alex Garfield like the plague. Nothing this guy has ever pushed for has ended positively, just look at the CSP project. EG has been the vein for his $ train for a very, very long time now.
Cuddle
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:27:39
July 22 2011 12:24 GMT
#96
I was all on EG's side until they try to blame it on the news post/leak. They could have been the bigger men and just said, "We didn't have the time to prepare an official statement at 4am in the morning. It's sad that so much speculation had to go on but here's the deal..."

As for the whole Korean drama, poor coach and what not. I don't sympathize in the least, as Rek said, karma is a bitch. Go PuMa and go EG!

Also, I don't see the point in TLO making a statement. It serves no point imo. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to an opinion, I'm not sure why you chose to make a flashy new blog post about it. There still room in the News Thread to post opinions along with everyone else.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
July 22 2011 12:25 GMT
#97
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed.

Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter.

Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one?

I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?

This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL?

What if you had read this statement first?

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.

It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.


I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news.

My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid.

Are you really STILL going after Milkis?

Are you fucking kidding me?
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:27:17
July 22 2011 12:27 GMT
#98
On July 22 2011 20:57 GhchD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 20:56 ondik wrote:
I'm so sad DeMuslim is on EG


Wow didnt think about that... you pretty right man


especially
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:34:30
July 22 2011 12:27 GMT
#99
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed.

Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter.

Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one?

I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?

This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL?

What if you had read this statement first?

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.

It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch.


I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news.

My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid.


you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. thats really, really, really stupid. im a European and i was up till 4am reading the drama, with no EG response. that prime time for american internet users.

you're also making comparisons to real sports that dont make any sense. the reason for press conferences taking days to prepare is that people to need physically be in the room, that takes travel time. in the world of the internet the time to organize something is as long as it takes to write

the 'hate' bandwagon is nothing to do with this being a 1 sided story. for months now there has been a story every month where either alex, colby, incontrol or scoots posts something fucking stupid and unprofessional on a matter, acts like a jerk on teamliquid or twitter then gets all suprised when people expect a little more from people backed by so many big name companies.

EG has serious serious problems with hypocrisy. they are known more for trashing talking players while being underperforming themselves, going grammar nazi over people misspeaking then using that as a defence for themselves and demanding professionalism from everyone except themselves than they are for doing anything amazing 'on the field'.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 12:28:21
July 22 2011 12:27 GMT
#100
--- Nuked ---
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