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On July 22 2011 21:46 Morrisson wrote:
SLasher missing the point completely, it's so beautiful.
be careful to not confuse Zlasher (guy posting here) with Slasher.
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On July 22 2011 21:46 Morrisson wrote:
SLasher missing the point completely, it's so beautiful.
Zlasher != Slasher.
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On July 22 2011 21:44 Dave. wrote:
Translator ≠ Journalist.
Agreed, translating isn't. Reporting news is. Like TBO said, we should point out the playxp writer then am I correct?
On July 22 2011 21:44 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. Scoots was awake and was tweeting with milkis and could've easily made a post right after the translation was posted. all i can see are terrible excuses for how awfully they handled basically everything regarding this issue.
But does Scoots speak 100% for the organization, or should he wait til Alex can speak as well, or wait til the more public platform exists to speak on, once accepting the public platform. Once again, all for a player that is still technically a free agent and unsigned.
If news about a trade happens in baseball for the SF Giants, and I see Bruce Bochy tweet something, do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from him? Do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from Brian Sabean (the General Manager), or do I wait until the public platform (the press conference) happens in order to hear it then.
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Well said TLO. Milkis does so much for this community he shouldn't have been put in the situation to be attacked. I think he presented it fine. Of course you are going to want to hear as much about the story as possible. The addition of the coach Lee part contributed just that. EG could learn a whole lot from FXO.
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On July 22 2011 20:14 Liquid`TLO wrote:
After reading up on all the drama about Puma, EG definitely lived up to the adjective in their name, the second part, not so much.
Couldn't put it better myself, thanks for this Dario.
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On July 22 2011 21:46 Morrisson wrote:
SLasher missing the point completely, it's so beautiful.
Slasher...? You mean Zlasher.... -_- Well your argument just got worse unless I'm missing something here... And it would be nice if Rekrul elaborated. I'm having trouble finding the bad side of the fruitdealer-ogs issue. I do agree with Zlasher about if a comment like Rekrul's was made first, a good portion of people would have had opposite feelings.
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On July 22 2011 21:48 Zlasher wrote:Agreed, translating isn't. Reporting news is. Like TBO said, we should point out the playxp writer then am I correct? Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:44 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. Scoots was awake and was tweeting with milkis and could've easily made a post right after the translation was posted. all i can see are terrible excuses for how awfully they handled basically everything regarding this issue. But does Scoots speak 100% for the organization, or should he wait til Alex can speak as well, or wait til the more public platform exists to speak on, once accepting the public platform. Once again, all for a player that is still technically a free agent and unsigned. If news about a trade happens in baseball for the SF Giants, and I see Bruce Bochy tweet something, do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from him? Do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from Brian Sabean (the General Manager), or do I wait until the public platform (the press conference) happens in order to hear it then.
Well it's not about being entitled... it would be in the very own interest of EG to act quicker. They however aren't entitled to not having people write things about them on forums...
and yes if EG wants to blame someone for lack of journalistic style then they should go after PlayXP instead of searching scapegoats. However you should be aware that what PlayXP did might be completely appropriate for a korean news site... so when Alex says that korean teams need to play the western game of contracts he should not chicken out to play the korean game of media.
I'm not exactly sure in which form the playXP site released it but if it was an interview then it is always one-sided and good standard to release... people know that interviews have a certain PoV. Just check up the EG interview with Incontrol where he falsely accuses TB of hilarious things. I am pretty sure they didn't ask TB about that before releasing either.
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I agree mostly with what you've said Dario. EG went about this in a very bad way... I find it hard to believe that they didn't expect some sort of backlash.
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On July 22 2011 20:29 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 20:24 edc wrote:On July 22 2011 20:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
Always glad to see the pros taking the time to interact with the community, disagree with you here but most importantly of all good luck at the WCG! What do you disagree with the OP? I'm just curious and would like to know. My thoughts can be found here, if you have any other questions shoot me a PM I don't really want to bring my arguments about this spilling over into TLO's blog.
maturity. gj.
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On July 22 2011 20:55 GhchD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 20:53 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 20:52 darcevader88 wrote:
TLO does not mess around, doesn't mince words but isn't rude.
Gotta love it, completely agree. I don't think Dario could be rude if he tried. LoL TLO is BM on ladder xD
heresay.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
No surprises here, not the first time EG behaves like this.. Glad someone took the time to write this up. Cant ever imagine a respectable organization doing this >_<. Cant believe Milkis was attacked, wtf.
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Well put TLO, feels like you got the jist of it
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Corrected my first post  Meant Zlasher, not slasher
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On July 22 2011 21:44 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. Scoots was awake and was tweeting with milkis and could've easily made a post right after the translation was posted. all i can see are terrible excuses for how awfully they handled basically everything regarding this issue.
Pretty much this, sums it up well. I kinda find it ironic that this shitstorm started with people having a problem with EG's ethics and integrity when approaching Puma, and it's now come full circle to EG attacking the integrity of Milkis who had the gall to translate an article. It's ridiculous. Qutie frankly EG management can get fucked as far as I'm concerned.
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On July 22 2011 21:54 darcevader88 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 20:55 GhchD wrote:On July 22 2011 20:53 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 20:52 darcevader88 wrote:
TLO does not mess around, doesn't mince words but isn't rude.
Gotta love it, completely agree. I don't think Dario could be rude if he tried. LoL TLO is BM on ladder xD heresay.
No, it's true he does. But it's the least sincere BM in the world. And only in team games that I've seen. He'll follow it up with some ":D :D"s unless it's in response to someone particularly being an ass.
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Milkis fighting.
We can only talk about the facts.
I don't really care that they do business dirty,
I really care that it took them forever to answer,
and that they attacked milkis
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On July 22 2011 21:48 Zlasher wrote:Agreed, translating isn't. Reporting news is. Like TBO said, we should point out the playxp writer then am I correct? Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:44 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. Scoots was awake and was tweeting with milkis and could've easily made a post right after the translation was posted. all i can see are terrible excuses for how awfully they handled basically everything regarding this issue. But does Scoots speak 100% for the organization, or should he wait til Alex can speak as well, or wait til the more public platform exists to speak on, once accepting the public platform. Once again, all for a player that is still technically a free agent and unsigned. If news about a trade happens in baseball for the SF Giants, and I see Bruce Bochy tweet something, do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from him? Do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from Brian Sabean (the General Manager), or do I wait until the public platform (the press conference) happens in order to hear it then.
But everything you say is completely missing the point. I don't know why you talk about journalism or about "EG was asleep". Ok, EG was sleeping, it's not a problem, they do what they want to do. But then blaming other people for...what ? A translated article ?
What you're saying would make sense in a totally different context, but misses the point in this context. It's like you're an EG employee trying to derail the thread so people talk about random stuff.
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EPT
