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On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple.
this is the kind of post that should give people hope. essentially you're saying things are too fast, which(i assume) means that it takes a lot of skill to play well.
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On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple.
Yeah same, I haven't played for many months. I prefer the good old feeling of playing, each weekend, in lan with my brother, sister and father at Brood war and Half life (We still do it!  ). Ah the good old games, It's a good feeling talking about them, certainly a feeling I'll never have with any upcoming game. 
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Canada13404 Posts
Well I can see your point but we can only hope that the world of SC2 will change with time and provide us with that more broodwar-esque feel. I think that we need more space control so that massing a ton of one unit cant win you the game in certain circustances. I want armies to be able to split up to both attack and defend, If I attack a Zerg and they counter with their whole army there is nothing I can do.
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On July 05 2011 03:43 Essbee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple. Yeah same, I haven't played for many months. I prefer the good old feeling of playing, each weekend, in lan with my brother, sister and father at Brood war and Half life (We still do it! ). Ah the good old games, It's a good feeling talking about them, certainly a feeling I'll never have with any upcoming game.
that would be logically impossible.you can't expect to have good memories about a game that hasn't come out yet. how did you feel/think about BW when it had just come out?
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On July 05 2011 03:39 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple. this is the kind of post that should give people hope. essentially you're saying things are too fast, which(i assume) means that it takes a lot of skill to play well.
No fast = not enough time to do any micro not enough time to save ur structures the dps is too high in this game.
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On July 05 2011 03:47 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 03:43 Essbee wrote:On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple. Yeah same, I haven't played for many months. I prefer the good old feeling of playing, each weekend, in lan with my brother, sister and father at Brood war and Half life (We still do it! ). Ah the good old games, It's a good feeling talking about them, certainly a feeling I'll never have with any upcoming game. that would be logically impossible.you can't expect to have good memories about a game that hasn't come out yet. how did you feel/think about BW when it had just come out?
You're probably totally right (I hope ) but seeing the new games coming out, I have little hope about them.
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On July 05 2011 03:47 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 03:43 Essbee wrote:On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple. Yeah same, I haven't played for many months. I prefer the good old feeling of playing, each weekend, in lan with my brother, sister and father at Brood war and Half life (We still do it! ). Ah the good old games, It's a good feeling talking about them, certainly a feeling I'll never have with any upcoming game. that would be logically impossible.you can't expect to have good memories about a game that hasn't come out yet. how did you feel/think about BW when it had just come out?
Sc 1 was epic though I was like 7 when it was released but still there are tons of games that are just awesome out of the gate I mean fallout 3 is a game I've played tons because I just love all of it. Same with wc3 it was amazing from the day I bought it. A lot of games are like that like cod mw 1 was the shit man cod 1 and 2 as well. I mean you should like a game from start the start until well infinity for it to be deserving of all the praise sc2 is getting.
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On July 05 2011 03:39 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 03:30 masami.sc wrote:
Honestly, I thought SC2 had potential. But I just couldn't get into it at all... battles are too short because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, and the shiny graphics really get to me. I mean, you can't see anything in that mess. And what is this 1 dropship -> snipe your nexus bullshit? How much fucking DPS can a single unit have? Terrible. I have SC2 sitting on my computer, but I haven't touched it in a month or so. I don't have the urge to play... it's just not fun, plain and simple. this is the kind of post that should give people hope. essentially you're saying things are too fast, which(i assume) means that it takes a lot of skill to play well.
I like to compare BW to chess, and SC2 to something more like... checkers. Sure, it's fun to play with your friends, and there are some people who can get pretty darn good at it. But it's still checkers.
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If you are an active SCBW player you have to realise that since you are still playing a game which is over 10 years old, you should consider yourself a fanatic. This is absolutely fine, but realise that nothing is going to measure up to your favourate game, no matter how good it is.
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Im calling bs on that deathly rat. plenty of new players who dont have experience or nostalgia related to old games, discover them and straight up prefer them to new ones.
the real reason is the change in game industry, orientation to high budget mass production of games which requires dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator. hence why big corporations wont release intellectually deep games any more - but small indie devs do.
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On July 05 2011 04:31 xarthaz wrote:
Im calling bs on that deathly rat. plenty of new players who dont have experience or nostalgia related to old games, discover them and straight up prefer them to new ones.
the real reason is the change in game industry, orientation to high budget mass production of games which requires dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator. hence why big corporations wont release intellectually deep games any more - but small indie devs do.
Yeah I feel the same because the only new games I enjoy now are small indie games like minecraft, terraria, amnesia, etc... these are some quality games.
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On July 05 2011 04:31 xarthaz wrote:
Im calling bs on that deathly rat. plenty of new players who dont have experience or nostalgia related to old games, discover them and straight up prefer them to new ones.
the real reason is the change in game industry, orientation to high budget mass production of games which requires dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator. hence why big corporations wont release intellectually deep games any more - but small indie devs do.
So true been falling more and more in love with indie games recently only developers with some balls these days
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On July 05 2011 06:26 simme123 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 04:31 xarthaz wrote:
Im calling bs on that deathly rat. plenty of new players who dont have experience or nostalgia related to old games, discover them and straight up prefer them to new ones.
the real reason is the change in game industry, orientation to high budget mass production of games which requires dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator. hence why big corporations wont release intellectually deep games any more - but small indie devs do. So true been falling more and more in love with indie games recently only developers with some balls these days
I'm not gonna touch the BW/SC2 thing, my feelings on it would just be beating a dead horse, however I 100% agree with the indie devs comment.
I think it's partially because they RELY on their game to do well. Indie game flop usually means the company is fucked. Take any larger company, let's say Blizzard for example, puts out some game they spent a few months working on, and it flops...big deal. They've got other options to generate income. As long as it gets hyped and sells, they can ride the success of their other games in order to put out crappy games.
I respect Notch a lot, from Minecraft. I follow his twitter, he listens to what people want, and he works to implement them. People give him a LOT of flak for not really doing a 101% test on all of his patches, but you have to respect a guy who turned down many offers from other VERY large companies to do things his own way, and he is probably one of the most community driven developers that I've come across.
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I don't see how your response to "but it's not totally figured out yet" actually addresses that point, you just say "well it's been out a year!" A year is still not indicative of its potential, where were the bonjwas of 1999 in SC? Remember that everyone seems to be thinking about BW when SC2's own 2 expansions haven't even come out.
I agree that lack of MBS and 12 unit max select makes BW harder, however I disagree with the idea that this is significant harm. No, perfect macro is not easy to achieve in SC2 - look at Happy, with his 90% win rate on ladder, where Day9's daily on him noted that his one weakness is still slipping up in macro. While you point towards your experience in getting to diamond, note that these ladder levels are all relative to population pool, and that this is also attributable to the simple fact that SC2 as a new game attracted a ton of players without prior RTS experience, meaning that your previous BW experience helped you rise among this new pool. Also see the thread about how the skill level has risen between Season 1 and 2 - last season's Diamond is now this season's Gold/Plat, not to mention the fact that there's now Masters/GM leagues. Coupled with that thread's data on lowering SC2 populations, this supports my counter-explanation that "I got high in ladder previously" was because there simply happened to be a lot more n00bs, not because the game was fundamentally easy.
Oh, and on a random note: player that has won more than 2 back-to-back major tournaments? MC won GSL March, Dreamhack Stockholm, then Copenhagen.
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Better results than 2000 Boxer would have in BW today. Yet he was bonjwa, because competition is based on context, not the standard of a different game.
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I think there are great quality new games as well as many many poor quality ones, but wasn't this always the case?
I consider SC2 along with Red Dead Redemption and Battlefeild Bad Company 2 (to name a few) to be absolutely great games that hold up to any comparison with games from the past. A lot of classic big hits from the past wouldn't even be a success if released today.
I blame nintendo for a growth in poor quality gimmiky games. The DS and Wii have provided huge hits for novelty games, which has shown a model for making money to developers of other platforms.
Minecraft and other indie games have caught my attention, but I have to say I have gotten bored of them quite quickly and found myself going back to playing triple-A titles quite soon.
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And one last thing that I that I find to be the most annoying of the all is the people on this site cheering on for e-sports when all they really mean is starcraft 2. e-sport =/= starcraft 2. Stacraft 2 <= e-sport. So if you really wanna further e-sports don't forget to support other games as well.
This, this THIS.
Also, the only things people like about SC2 are the things that carried on from the original. If they released Broodwar on this same engine NO ONE would play this. I hope the sc2bw mod gets finished with the crappy ai and everything.
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My feelings on the comparison between BW and SC2 are pretty much summed up by the sexy beast himself
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239760
In SC2, the graphics are very nice and the overall mechanics of the game is easier so it’s easier to play, but because of that, each battle and strategy becomes more important. For example, many units in one control group tends to bunch up so you have to be careful to spread them in battle. As for strategy, there are many that just simply end the game if you are not prepared, so you have to be extremely careful, especially in the beginning of the game. What people say about early game scouting being difficult is true. However, through my vast experience, I have to predict by feel what my opponent’s strategy will be.
People keep saying that it is a different game but not how it is different. Or why this is a good/bad thing. For me, I love the fact the new people can get to a decent level quickly. This doesn't mean that they can dominate quickly. I would argue that no-one has so far dominated the scene. People say this is because the game is too volatile, or too gimmicky, or too build order based etc etc etc. You can blame this on the constant patching, the bigger community, the ease of replay access, the speed that news spreads now, the constant whining and so on. The point is no-one has figured it out yet.
There were obstacles in BW to becoming a bonjwa. That is why they were so rare. Thre are different obstacles for SC2. Whether they can be overcome remains to be seen.
I don't plan on trying to change your mind. Rather, just remember that because the game is different it will appeal to different people. If you can enjoy the new aspects of the game then you will enjoy SC2, if not well there is always BW.
PS. I played BW for many many years but only with mates. So perhaps this clouds my judgement. I do feel that the community aspect to BW has been lost, but this, as with the game, may just take time to fully develop. LAN was a big loss.
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Did I mention the word bonjwa in my post? Please read more carefully. The other reply about comparing boxer's performance in 2000 is also pertinent. Seriously, it's the behavior of people like you that make bw fans look like elitist a-holes, even though the actual population doesn't deserve such a besmirched reputation.
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EPT
