• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:01
CET 22:01
KST 06:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada3SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1707 users

Day 2, First game recounts and other things.

Blogs > Hyyde
Post a Reply
Hyyde
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States43 Posts
July 02 2011 01:26 GMT
#1
Hello everyone,

First off, I was very surprised by the number of people who bothered to read my last (first) post. When I was writing it felt like this whole thing might have just been an exercise for myself but no. People responded and I thank you all for that. It was nice.

Anyways, onto Star Craft II.

Since yesterday I have zigzagged my way up the ladder a little bit. I was ranked 70 or so at the time of my last post and now I am ranked 52 in my silver league division. Yay for progress. I am told that ladder ranking don't matter, and I believe this, but even so it feels good to move up.

Also I may be a bit late on this but the ladder is getting locked in preparation for season 3. I am not sure what to think about this. It won't halt my progress as a player which is good but I do like see my movement up the ladder. We will see where I get placed when the ladder is unlocked.

Now it is time for me to recount a game or two. Both losses, but that's how we learn, no?


Game #1 ZvT
+ Show Spoiler +
First off I must say that I do not have builds for different match-ups. So most of my games I do an extractor at 12 and 14 pool and by now I should have scouted and I go from there.

So at 10/10 I send a worker scout and see 2 barracks and a gas. I don't know what to make of this because I am inexperienced. I am always afraid of a rush/early push so I get defensive. I build a spine crawler near my mineral line and a roach warren. I also have an overlord between my base and his.

I build a few zerglings for defense. I now have 20 food and he has 27. Big difference I think. I am also 3 workers behind.

I expand to my natural. However just as the hatch finishes marauders arrive. I send down the few roaches I have produced as well as my queen. The hatch and my units are promptly killed as the marine reinforcements arrive. He has rallied his barracks to my natural.

I produce a few zerglings and another spine crawler.

Nine minutes in I am 15 food behind, 3 workers behind and am starting to float about 500 minerals. He rushes my ramp again and am barely able to held him off. I respond by turtling up with 6 spine crawlers along my ramp.

Later I do manage to push him out but reinforcements arrive and rip me apart. I gg and leave
---------------------------------------
Issues I see:
1) I don't know what to make of my scouting information.
2) Near the end I was starting to float a lot of minerals. I tried to throw down some extra hatches but it did not help as much as I hoped it would.
3) I was late with the expand. I usually aim for about 4 minutes, this one was at 5:15 or so. That extra 75 seconds might have allowed me to keep it and prevented the siege that followed.
4) I was constantly behind in the worker count. I need more drones. Previously I had been losing because I had made to many and scaled back. I fear I may have scaled back to far.

Replay Link: http://replayfu.com/r/FVDLVj


__________________________________________________________________

Game #2 ZvP
+ Show Spoiler +
This one went a little better but in watching the replay I see that I still had some major problems. Specifically drone production, which is bad when I am working on improving my macro.

So the match starts off. I know he is Protoss don't feel like I need to 10 pool for defense. I scout and see that we are at cross positions. I also see two gateways and a zealot. I have heard of the 2 gate rush so again I am on the defensive. I send out overlords to watch attack paths. I see a single zelot scout come up but it was denied. He was 4 zerglings and a queen. By this time my roach warren is finished because I saw zealots and can't have them killing all my zerglings.

It is now seven minutes into the game and he has expanded and I have not. He is also 3 workers ahead of me.

He pushes with 6 zealots, I defend with zerglings and roaches successfully. Thinking I might have the advantage I counter attack. I see he has his natural up and after taking care of some stalkers I target it. Ass of his workers there are dead however he repels me with some newly warped in stalkers and saves his expo. Now he is 8 workers ahead of me but I have a lot more units. At the time I did not know this, I was a little to timid to push.

The game continues in this fashion, I try to grab more expos while still being low on workers. He grabs one and I manage to destroy it but at the end he has twice as many workers as me and runs into my base with void rays. I have little AA. He wins.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issues
1) My drone production was extremely low. It really hurt me.
2) My expo was much later than it should have been, several minutes late.
3) I did not push when I should have known I had the advantage. Know that he had expanded twice, his attacks were lacking and I should have pushed to try to regain some economic advantage.

Replay Link: http://replayfu.com/r/Cs7RBp

_____________________________________________________________

All in all my macro is weak. I need more drones and need to expand more aggressively while employing just enough defense to get by. Over producing units and then doing nothing with them is hurting me economically. I also float too much money too often. Earlier gas may help here. I will spend some time in the build order tester to try to get my timings down so I can expand without delay.

If you see anything wrong with my analysis or if you took time out of your day to watch the replays please post a comment about it. I am still very green and don't know what to look for yet.

In other news I am back home for the summer and I own a Wii. My family has been capitalizing on it's ability to stream movies through netflix onto the large LCD tv we have. This is not good for lag. Thank God that my sleep schedule is so radically different from theirs that I can play at night when they are all in bed.

Also, my uncle has an old friend and his family visiting form Ireland this week and I found a friend in his son. We are driving to the Anime Expo in L.A. tomorrow. I never really got into Anime other than Deathnote but it looks like a grand old time anyways. However I have to get up really really early to make sure we get there at a reasonable hour. I hope it's worth it.

Until Next Time,
-=Hyyde=-

*****
cda6590
Profile Joined July 2011
12 Posts
July 02 2011 03:54 GMT
#2
Your issues for game 1:
1. The notable thing about what you scouted was that you saw gas *before* barracks. Typically this means fast helion or banshee. But because this terran wasn't on the ball, he didn't do that. You were right to worry about early aggression, though.
2. Having just recently been promoted to gold myself, I find that my macro slips quite a bit too. Typically I'll have three hatcheries per two bases.
3. Even in silver league you can get away with expanding before you do anything else. The standard is 15 hatchery. It might feel a little uncomfortable at first, but the economy boost is invaluable.
4. What I try to do is:
15 hatch -> 15 pool -> 15 gas.
Then I try my best to scout, make a few lings (probably like 10) and then drone all the way up until about 45 food. obviously I will change depending on what my opponent is doing, but this is typically what I try to aim for. After I hit 45 food on two bases, I grab all my gases and then start teching.

Other tips:
Try avoiding getting a roach warren against terran. Roaches are typically only good against helions; and as you probably realized, roaches aren't very good against marauders. Had you focused more on ling production you probably could have had a pretty good handful to take out his early push.

Instead of throwing down the second hatchery, it might have been better to get your second gas and a spire. Throwing 12-15 mutas at him would have seriously hampered his economy and kept him back in his base, allowing you to re-expand.

Additionally an early baneling nest would have been good. Around the 15 minute mark (when all his stuff was on your ramp), banelings would have been useful.


game 2:
1. Drone timings take practice. Good rules of thumb are to drone early and when you feel safe
2. This game is tricky because of the early zealot pressure (although he did that wrong). But you could expand on 15 supply in this matchup as well.
3. When you scouted him you should have noticed that he did not wall off. This should prompt you to halt drone production and go for as many zerglings as possible. Had you rushed him at around the 6 minute mark with 40 lings he could not have held it off.

This protoss took a lot of risks. Make sure you have lings scattered about his potential expo's and in front of his base. An early expanding protoss is easy to punish if the toss can't do it correctly.

in addition to your 1v1's, try playing against the computer. Although it's not an entirely realistic enemy, it allows to to practice your macro in a relatively risk-free setting. Try expanding at the 15 supply mark against a computer and then practice holding off its initial rush.
Hyyde
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States43 Posts
July 02 2011 06:59 GMT
#3
First of thank you, I will use this feedback. Knowing what to make of scouting is important. I still feel a little timid in attacking but I will just have to do it. Can't win with only defense. Most of this seems like I need to play a lot to get a feel for when to rush, when to expand or continue drone production. Though right now it is about guiding principals.

After reading this is does not feel like I tech enough. In one game have I ever gotten mutas, won me the game but haven't done it. I am very comfortable with zerglings and roaches. Can't be afraid to use other units.

Anyways off to rewatch the replays with these in mind.

Thanks much
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
Masters Cup #150: Group A
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 225
JuggernautJason177
IndyStarCraft 175
ProTech71
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2099
Shuttle 640
firebathero 163
Dota 2
Dendi1211
Counter-Strike
byalli1428
pashabiceps883
Foxcn130
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu438
Other Games
summit1g7141
Grubby4295
Beastyqt668
fl0m509
DeMusliM365
Fuzer 214
Skadoodle141
C9.Mang061
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 14
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 25
• Dystopia_ 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV643
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2680
• TFBlade1255
Other Games
• Shiphtur263
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h
Replay Cast
12h
OSC
14h 30m
Kung Fu Cup
15h
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 2h
The PondCast
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 15h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
3 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
4 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.