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I can't really give credit to SC2 for getting me into Brood War. I still remember watching an old friend's older sister playing and wondered what that big thing was that was shooting these small things flying everywhere.
Anyways...
I bought Brood War today, and I jumped into iCCup head first, without any real knowledge of the game. I've been looking around for a while, but I can't find answers.
Approximately how many Gateways can I afford off 2 bases?
What is the absolute basic opener for each of the Protoss match ups? I've looked through Liquipedia and all there was was a long, long list of strategies...
And what exactly happens in PvP? I know in PvZ there's the whole Corsair/Speedlot shenanigans, in PvT there's storm, mass dragoons, Arbiters. But I've never really seen what happens in the mirror match up.
Is there any hope of ever going up from D-? T_T
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PvP in broodwar is basically dragoon, zealot, reebo and mega forge ups. late game storm gets added
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Any help on how many Gateways I can use off 2 bases? I'm constantly producing off of 5 gateways, but it still feels like it's too little.
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Off 2 bases, you can usually support 4.
For PvT, I normally do a 1 gate core -> expo
For PvZ, Forge FE
For PvP, 2 gate robo seems to be the safest thing out there
PvP is based alot on early game reaver control into mid game storms. (not really sure what else) xD...
When you're at D-, it's usually just trying to learn the build orders and learning to macro (keeping minerals below 1k, building probes constantly, etc.). After those tasks are done, you should hover around D.. then everything from then on is just practice, practice, practice.
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At D-, solid mechanics are what matters. Produce probes nonstop and aside from that, spending money. Those things alone are hard in BW and if you can do those 2 things (zealots and dragoons while probes nonstop) you will get very far.
GL and welcome to BW. Don't be discouraged and remind yourself how good it is to win :D
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Since you started with SC2, I will assume your SC:BW macro isn't perfect yet. When you have minerals after a round of production, add gateways + pylons. If you've won an engagement, produce a round of units and expand. At around D-/D level, you can usually roll over your opponents by simply having more "stuff".
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Well you jumped head first into a competitive ladder of a 10+ year old game without what seems like any prior experience of even playing the game casually. Don't be surprised if you drop below D-.
You should check Liquipedia again. I just opened up the BW section and I can see the exact build order/openings for several builds in all the P match ups as well as the intentions, advantages, and disadvantages of each build and you can pick the ones you like accordingly.
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Without probe production and while making HT's(who cost 50 minerals only)/zealots, you pretty much can support 8 gateways off 2bases. Without pylons(non-stop fights for example), even more.
With probe production, and, for example, goon only production, 4 is a general idea.
With probe production, templar/goon/zealot - about 6. It really depends.
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It's great to see there are still a few people who are getting into Brood War for the first time. About a week ago I saw one BW streamer who said he started with SC2 and is already D+. Just practice executing one build order per match-up and you will probably overcome D- soon enough.
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You really won't be able to produce constantly from more than 6 gateways off 2 base, especially while developing your tech and economy (in which case you really won't be able to support 6 at all). However, if your macro isn't consistent enough to produce constantly, don't be afraid to add more production structures to compensate, while remaining cognizant that this is inefficient.
In addition to Liquipedia (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Strategy_%28Protoss%29 see the matchup tabs), also visit the race specific guides here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60601
Be prepared to do a lot of reading. If Liquipedia's "long" list of strategies daunt you, that's a problem. There is more literature on BW strategy in English alone than in most College courses.
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actually you can pump from 8 gates off 2 bases given full saturation.. however they will idle as soon as you want to tech up or expand
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United States44383 Posts
You really ought to watch some vods/streams/replays just to get a feel for the matchups. Your questions won't tell you anything without context.
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From my short time in brood war this is what I do:
2 gateways and cybercore, start producing dragoons from those,start dragoon range, get robo up, and depending on what I scout/feel it will either be obs first or support bay first. but ultimately get the reaver out and a shuttle, try to harass while applying some pressure,try to get him contained in the base. Expand, add gateways, and keep the pressure up. This normally leads to a confrontation, during the and game and the game ends there.
The most important thing, if your from sc2 is to remember, probes, dont start to mine themselves when the are built, even if you've set a rally point
. btw, if you want to practice let me know, I'm a d/d- too.
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Remember for PvT, you mass dragoons but the zealots are key. Don't let your dragoons die! Lead with zealots and once they all die, retreat your dragoons. Reload zealots (1-2) production rounds and repeat! Watch some Best VODs, I love his PvT.
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On May 05 2011 15:37 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Remember for PvT, you mass dragoons but the zealots are key. Don't let your dragoons die! Lead with zealots and once they all die, retreat your dragoons. Reload zealots (1-2) production rounds and repeat! Watch some Best VODs, I love his PvT.
Ideally, you get by on nothing but dragoons for as long as possible (deal with any early 1 base pushes using dragoons). Then, right before you have to deal with a midgame push, you flood speedlots from all of your gateways. They will help clear mines and cause tanks to splash themselves, so your goons can run up more safely and start firing on the tanks.
Here's an example of what a fairly standard game might look like.
Protoss opens up 1 gate goon range. He scouts the Terran, and sees a wall-in, only one marine being produced, and scvs taken off gas. He can safely deduce that the Terran is going Siege Expand. A safe response to siege expand is to take a quick three bases, so the Protoss double expands, still massing goons off of just 1 gateway. The Protoss then techs to obs, sneaks one into the Terran base, and sees that the Terran added 4 factories for a total of 5. This means that the Terran is going for a 2 base timing push. The Protoss gets zealot leg speed, a total of 6 gateways, and after making 10-12 dragoons, switches to pure zealot production. By the time the Terran push comes out, the Protoss has enough units, engages with basic push-breaking micro, shuts down the push, and enjoys his economic lead.
If you can keep up your macro and execute something like that, you will do very well in PvT. It's a nightmarish matchup for Terrans at low levels.
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Liquipedia is your friend for looking up build orders.
Progames are also your friend for trying what a general gameflow is, although you do need a certain understanding of the game to actually know what decisions they are making.
In general though, practice helps the most, but the above two should contribute the most to your knowledge base.
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if you are really that new, watch pro-games. they give the best idea about meta-game flow.
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I recommend not trying any FE builds in PvP to start with, and just generally being careful with regards to expanding cause it can make you lose immediately.
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For playing broodwar, this blog gets a 5!
Gl man
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I'm still amazed that people, uninfluenced by SC2, pick up BW. Kind of makes me want to get back on iccup and improve that D+ rank!
Follow EchOne's liquipedia link and watch some vods for the map pool. That should get you started. The learning curve is very high, so good luck on this fun little journey!
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EPT
