• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:32
CEST 03:32
KST 10:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)71ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10747 users

ToastieNL; Solution to the deathball problem (P)

Blogs > ToastieNL
Post a Reply
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 09:04:59
April 23 2011 07:50 GMT
#1
Hello people, welcome to my first blog post.

Currently, a lot of people complain about the collosus being to strong in the deathball, and other people complain about complaining people complaining about the problem, finding new strategies.

I think it's just a design issue, which I'll give a great alternative for. I hope you enjoy yourself!

The Problem:
In my opinion, the problem with Collosi being to strong, lies in the collosus having to compensate the gateway units' weakness. Those units are weak because of Warp Gate being so strong. So to 'fix' the collosus without harming Protoss, he have to make Gateway units stronger. Making them stronger is impossible without nerfing Warpgate, so:
To nerf collosi is by buffing Gateway Units is by nerfing Warpgate.

The fix in a nutshell:
The idea I had was to make a proxy pylon less easy to pull of, so I thought about restirictions, and I found one.
What would happen if you could only warp from a certain distance away from the Cybernetics Core? That means, some radius (like the Sensor Towers) gets shown on your map, not the opponents. You can only warp in on Pylons within this radius. This means that to go for some early agression, you need to place a Cybercore reasonably close to the opposing base. This doesn't count for the Warp Prism. Warp Prisms may be allowed to warp in anywhere.

What this does, is bringing back the defenders advantage, or at least making a Warpgate attack a real commitment. Instead of 100m for a Pylon, it'll now be 250m and a lot of time invested, seriously delaying the Warpgate rushes, or making them more obvious and scoutable because of 2nd Pylon and Cybercore being proxied.

Once the Twilight Council is completed, you can research 'Free Warpgate', something like 50/50/80, which enables free Warp-ins out of Cybercore range.

Now, as for Gateway Unit Buffs (I'm no authority on this!!);
- Zealots are hard to take care of, because increasing their attack damage makes them very strong verse Lings. A buff in shields of ±20 might do the trick.
- Sentry can get away with +1 or even +2 in their attack, a buff in Health would be unfeasable because they have to be weak to snipes, still.
- Stalker should get some extra damage in, either with +1 on it's attack and another +1 vs. Armored, or with something I have been liking really myself: One of the 2 lazers fired by the Stalker becomes piercing, so it does 14 damage to the first target, and 7 to the target after that. The 3rd won't be damaged.
- High Templar should get back the amulet, with a certain change to unable Instant Storm.
- Dark Templar are completely different, as they are no Army-to-Army units by design.
- Archons should get 1/2 Shield armour unupgraded, I think it's just silly something existing of pure shields and only useful for absorbing hits doesn't have armour.

I will not go in depth about Collosus changes, but with these changes put in, Collosi can maybe go like -3 attack.

Expected future with these changes:
What will happen when these changes get put into the game:
- Templar Tech becomes more viable as it comes with the ability to freely warp in everywhere.
- Warp Prisms see the light of day more often (if you go Robo, you can't research free Warpgates), and maybe this produces a dance of sniping the Warp Prism with Marines when playing with Terran. Lategame with Vikings it won't matter, you'll go TC for +2 upgrades anyways.
- Stargate Play might see a slight reduce in prefered use, but on the other hand, a forward Cybercore gives you another upgrade structure which you might as well use?

In short:
Warpgate Research from Cybernetics Core gets restiricted to a certain area only. Twiligh Council Research enables warp in everywhere. Warp in from Warp Prisms is excluded from this. This is to delay and make a commitment of warpgate rushes. It also makes those more easilly scoutable. As a result of this, GW units can be strenghtened and Collosi can be nerfed.

Please let met know your opinion on this. Preferable in PM.

Kind regards,
Toastie

EDIT1: Whenever you lose your Cybernetics Core, Warp in can still be done from every pylon within X (I think something like 8) range away from your Nexus, because of Cybercore Snipes, Baneling Busts, or the Cybercore losing power.


*
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
April 23 2011 07:53 GMT
#2
should at least be in range of a gateway

what happens when a baneling bust or something kills the cyber core you dont get to warp in anything?
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12110 Posts
April 23 2011 08:15 GMT
#3
On April 23 2011 16:53 SlapMySalami wrote:
should at least be in range of a gateway

what happens when a baneling bust or something kills the cyber core you dont get to warp in anything?


What is the problem with warp in not working any more in that case? Just switch to normal gates.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
April 23 2011 09:03 GMT
#4
You should still be having Sentry's to defend vs. Baneling Bust, but whenever that fails, you can always switch back to normal gateways.
Though, it might be an option to make the 'Warp Circle' reduce with a reasonable speed by time, or that Warpgates get to produce in range of the Nexus too, which actually sounds reasonable. I'm editting that now.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
April 23 2011 10:15 GMT
#5
The whole point of warpgates are to let you warp in units anyywhere. If you want to localize unit production it seems backwards to bother with an upgrade in the first place.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
April 24 2011 18:13 GMT
#6
You didn't read my thread, it isn't localized; you can still unlock Warp In options very easilly.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:30
FSL TeamLeague: ST vs POG
Freeedom36
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft664
ViBE174
SpeCial 134
NeuroSwarm 121
CosmosSc2 74
Nina 70
FoxeR 16
ProTech5
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 36
MaD[AoV]29
Purpose 19
League of Legends
JimRising 626
Counter-Strike
taco 144
minikerr12
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe192
Other Games
summit1g11748
Liquid`Ken6
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3120
Other Games
gamesdonequick1033
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 64
• EnkiAlexander 44
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
3h 28m
Maestros of the Game
10h 58m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
12h 28m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 3h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 12h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 13h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.