• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:09
CEST 20:09
KST 03:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 5/8 August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread EVE Corporation Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10675 users

ToastieNL; Solution to the deathball problem (P)

Blogs > ToastieNL
Post a Reply
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 09:04:59
April 23 2011 07:50 GMT
#1
Hello people, welcome to my first blog post.

Currently, a lot of people complain about the collosus being to strong in the deathball, and other people complain about complaining people complaining about the problem, finding new strategies.

I think it's just a design issue, which I'll give a great alternative for. I hope you enjoy yourself!

The Problem:
In my opinion, the problem with Collosi being to strong, lies in the collosus having to compensate the gateway units' weakness. Those units are weak because of Warp Gate being so strong. So to 'fix' the collosus without harming Protoss, he have to make Gateway units stronger. Making them stronger is impossible without nerfing Warpgate, so:
To nerf collosi is by buffing Gateway Units is by nerfing Warpgate.

The fix in a nutshell:
The idea I had was to make a proxy pylon less easy to pull of, so I thought about restirictions, and I found one.
What would happen if you could only warp from a certain distance away from the Cybernetics Core? That means, some radius (like the Sensor Towers) gets shown on your map, not the opponents. You can only warp in on Pylons within this radius. This means that to go for some early agression, you need to place a Cybercore reasonably close to the opposing base. This doesn't count for the Warp Prism. Warp Prisms may be allowed to warp in anywhere.

What this does, is bringing back the defenders advantage, or at least making a Warpgate attack a real commitment. Instead of 100m for a Pylon, it'll now be 250m and a lot of time invested, seriously delaying the Warpgate rushes, or making them more obvious and scoutable because of 2nd Pylon and Cybercore being proxied.

Once the Twilight Council is completed, you can research 'Free Warpgate', something like 50/50/80, which enables free Warp-ins out of Cybercore range.

Now, as for Gateway Unit Buffs (I'm no authority on this!!);
- Zealots are hard to take care of, because increasing their attack damage makes them very strong verse Lings. A buff in shields of ±20 might do the trick.
- Sentry can get away with +1 or even +2 in their attack, a buff in Health would be unfeasable because they have to be weak to snipes, still.
- Stalker should get some extra damage in, either with +1 on it's attack and another +1 vs. Armored, or with something I have been liking really myself: One of the 2 lazers fired by the Stalker becomes piercing, so it does 14 damage to the first target, and 7 to the target after that. The 3rd won't be damaged.
- High Templar should get back the amulet, with a certain change to unable Instant Storm.
- Dark Templar are completely different, as they are no Army-to-Army units by design.
- Archons should get 1/2 Shield armour unupgraded, I think it's just silly something existing of pure shields and only useful for absorbing hits doesn't have armour.

I will not go in depth about Collosus changes, but with these changes put in, Collosi can maybe go like -3 attack.

Expected future with these changes:
What will happen when these changes get put into the game:
- Templar Tech becomes more viable as it comes with the ability to freely warp in everywhere.
- Warp Prisms see the light of day more often (if you go Robo, you can't research free Warpgates), and maybe this produces a dance of sniping the Warp Prism with Marines when playing with Terran. Lategame with Vikings it won't matter, you'll go TC for +2 upgrades anyways.
- Stargate Play might see a slight reduce in prefered use, but on the other hand, a forward Cybercore gives you another upgrade structure which you might as well use?

In short:
Warpgate Research from Cybernetics Core gets restiricted to a certain area only. Twiligh Council Research enables warp in everywhere. Warp in from Warp Prisms is excluded from this. This is to delay and make a commitment of warpgate rushes. It also makes those more easilly scoutable. As a result of this, GW units can be strenghtened and Collosi can be nerfed.

Please let met know your opinion on this. Preferable in PM.

Kind regards,
Toastie

EDIT1: Whenever you lose your Cybernetics Core, Warp in can still be done from every pylon within X (I think something like 8) range away from your Nexus, because of Cybercore Snipes, Baneling Busts, or the Cybercore losing power.


*
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
April 23 2011 07:53 GMT
#2
should at least be in range of a gateway

what happens when a baneling bust or something kills the cyber core you dont get to warp in anything?
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12143 Posts
April 23 2011 08:15 GMT
#3
On April 23 2011 16:53 SlapMySalami wrote:
should at least be in range of a gateway

what happens when a baneling bust or something kills the cyber core you dont get to warp in anything?


What is the problem with warp in not working any more in that case? Just switch to normal gates.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
April 23 2011 09:03 GMT
#4
You should still be having Sentry's to defend vs. Baneling Bust, but whenever that fails, you can always switch back to normal gateways.
Though, it might be an option to make the 'Warp Circle' reduce with a reasonable speed by time, or that Warpgates get to produce in range of the Nexus too, which actually sounds reasonable. I'm editting that now.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
April 23 2011 10:15 GMT
#5
The whole point of warpgates are to let you warp in units anyywhere. If you want to localize unit production it seems backwards to bother with an upgrade in the first place.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
April 24 2011 18:13 GMT
#6
You didn't read my thread, it isn't localized; you can still unlock Warp In options very easilly.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 128
BRAT_OK 75
ProTech72
mouzHeroMarine 26
MindelVK 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25073
Shuttle 1288
Mini 693
Soulkey 456
actioN 185
Dewaltoss 135
Rush 129
Free 48
Sexy 43
sSak 28
[ Show more ]
HiyA 21
Rock 20
Dota 2
qojqva4311
XBOCT1288
Counter-Strike
fl0m5733
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu295
Other Games
gofns12839
Grubby1485
FrodaN1294
Fnx 482
Beastyqt464
elazer217
Hui .131
TKL 120
KnowMe90
uThermal90
C9.Mang072
Mew2King67
B2W.Neo58
Trikslyr50
CosmosSc2 15
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 1
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 28
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2594
• WagamamaTV791
League of Legends
• Nemesis2255
• imaqtpie1646
• TFBlade748
• Shiphtur661
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 51m
The PondCast
15h 51m
PiG Sty Festival
17h 51m
Serral vs Lambo
SHIN vs Rogue
OSC
18h 51m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Escore
1d 15h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 17h
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
OSC
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
The Patches Monday
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-11
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.