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This is just something that no one has bothered to answer, or I can't find the answer to exactly, so forgive me if I'm being an idiot!
Why are MC and Naniwa being given 0 points in their group for not playing their two games, but White-Ra is being given -2 points?
The way I understand this is;
MC missed his match because he had to attend Dreamhack and *insert whole delayed plane business here.* MC is currently at 0 points in the standings and Bratok is currently at 0 points.
Naniwa missed his match because he was tired, but was found laddering after not playing his match. Strelok then took the win, I'm assuming. Nani is currently at 0 points in the standings and so is his Strelok.
White-Ra missed his match because he had to attend Dreamhack. July took the win after waiting for him for 4 hours. White-Ra is currently at -2 points in the standings and July is at +2 points.
Why is it that White-Ra lost points for not attending, but MC and Nani didn't? Also, why did July win points for his walkover, but Bratok and Strelok didn't? I don't know exactly how this whole points situation will work out in the end, but right now it is extremely unfair for almost everyone involved.
If we're going to be following the White-Ra/July example, then Bratok and Strelok should both be +2 and tied for 1st in both of their groups. MC, White-Ra and Naniwa should all be tied for 10th in their groups, but instead we have White-Ra at 10th while MC & Naniwa both sit at 6th in their groups.
Them being in 6th actually puts them ahead of some players that attended their matches. If the NASL is going to be giving players 0 points for not attending their matches, then it might just be in the player's best interest to make up some stupid excuse to miss a match instead of losing 2 points.
Any official answer from the NASL on this and what's being done about it? Are White-Ra and July going to be at 0/0 or are Bratok, Strelok, MC & Naniwa going to be put at +2, +2, -2, -2, respectively?
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From what I could tell the difference is in communication. MC and Naniwa talked to NASL about their situation and White-Ra didn't.
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On April 21 2011 02:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
From what I could tell the difference is in communication. MC and Naniwa talked to NASL about their situation and White-Ra didn't.
Wouldn't that leave their system very open to abuse then? It wouldn't be that hard for someone to come up with some believable excuse, miss their match that they know they were going to lose and come out on top with no points lost.
It's quite understandable that not everyone is going to be able to make every one of their games, but missing 3 big ones so far hasn't been very good for the NASL. Either something needs to be done about the scheduling by loosening it up, or they need to create firm rules on what happens to a player when they miss their match. It just doesn't seem fair to me that Nani is ahead of Axslav, DDE, Moonglade, Haypro in his group by doing nothing. Same with MC.
Again, I'm not 100% sure how it will all work out in the end, but if Nani and MC move on in their groups because of that one match that they missed that benefited them then I would be extremely irritated.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On April 21 2011 02:58 Joementum wrote:
Either something needs to be done about the scheduling by loosening it up, or they need to create firm rules on what happens to a player when they miss their match.
They had firm rules:
Miss your match suddenly = -2
Miss your match with advanced notice or communication = 0
Then everyone started bitching about the best games being missed and NASL tried to make everyone happy by changing the schedule and rules. They shouldn't have done that. The original system was perfect.
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From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail.
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On April 21 2011 03:03 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 02:58 Joementum wrote:
Either something needs to be done about the scheduling by loosening it up, or they need to create firm rules on what happens to a player when they miss their match. They had firm rules: Miss your match suddenly = -2 Miss your match with advanced notice or communication = 0
But that still isn't fair for the players that actually made their matches. MC and Naniwa are now each ahead of 4 players that played their matches. Those 8 players were punished for playing their matches and providing entertainment value for us while MC and Naniwa were rewarded for doing nothing.
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A system where a player can actually benefit from *not* playing his games is not what I would label as "perfect". It was "functional" to a greater extent than the current system since the current one makes no sense.
But yeah, it was something about White-Ra not contacting the NASL after his finals and only writing a short text asking for a postpone of his games when he got to the finals (which caused the problem), even though he was told beforehand that this wasnt possible.
A bit offtopic: Has White-Ra ever adressed what happened? Not the whole -2 points thing which is just NASL messing around with their system, but what happened that made him not play?
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On April 21 2011 03:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail.
Yeah.
I heard about that too
I'm sure there's a reason, but it just doesn't sound fair
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On April 21 2011 03:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail.
I believe there were some qualms about him attending an afterparty immediately following dreamhack. July had agreed to wait for white ra for several hours but he did not respond to numerous attempts to communicate with him at the time. July took the walkover, whitera was penalized for lack of communication. The rules have since been altered to disallow players from making the walkover call. Seems fair enough.
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Fairness Schmairness. There are rules. Without rules we would be living in an anarchy. And in regards to tournaments, it would not be a good tournament.
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Really it's no problem. Him can still make 2 spot in group so it's no trouble.
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On April 21 2011 03:17 Gummy wrote:
Fairness Schmairness. There are rules. Without rules we would be living in an anarchy. And in regards to tournaments, it would not be a good tournament.
Which post are you referring to?
On April 21 2011 03:26 Alejandrisha wrote:
Really it's no problem. Him can still make 2 spot in group so it's no trouble.
Which player are you referring to? And what do you mean no problem? How would you feel if you played your game on time, lost and are now in 10th place while a player that couldn't show up is in 6th? As a player, I would be pissed. It's not fair to them at all.
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On April 21 2011 03:28 Joementum wrote:
How would you feel if you played your game on time, lost and are now in 10th place while a player that couldn't show up is in 6th? As a player, I would be pissed. It's not fair to them at all.
If he is 6th then he won some of the matches he played. Therefore he deserves to be in 6th place.
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On April 21 2011 03:49 Tschis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:28 Joementum wrote:
How would you feel if you played your game on time, lost and are now in 10th place while a player that couldn't show up is in 6th? As a player, I would be pissed. It's not fair to them at all. If he is 6th then he won some of the matches he played. Therefore he deserves to be in 6th place.
I'm talking about right now. If you go to NASL.tv and look at the standings, the players that didn't play are being put ahead of the players that lost. Like I mentioned before, I don't know how it will exactly work out in the end, but if it goes to a tie breaker situation for 5th place in the group and MC/Nani win in that tie breaker because of not playing their first match, it would be pretty bad.
By your logic, MC/Nani don't deserve to be in 6th place right now.
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On April 21 2011 03:49 Tschis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:28 Joementum wrote:
How would you feel if you played your game on time, lost and are now in 10th place while a player that couldn't show up is in 6th? As a player, I would be pissed. It's not fair to them at all. If he is 6th then he won some of the matches he played. Therefore he deserves to be in 6th place.
unless it was the first round
rules cant change mid season
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On April 21 2011 03:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail.
The difference between White-Ra and MC is that MC's was a 100% unavoidable situation, MC's plane got delayed (because of visa problems of HuK or something) and he was stuck in Turkey. There's literally nothing he could have done about it. We gave every opportunity to Ra to play his match in a big window when he was clearly already finished with the DH tournament, and he stopped communication.
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On April 21 2011 03:55 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail. The difference between White-Ra and MC is that MC's was a 100% unavoidable situation, MC's plane got delayed (because of visa problems of HuK or something) and he was stuck in Turkey. There's literally nothing he could have done about it. We gave every opportunity to Ra to play his match in a big window when he was clearly already finished with the DH tournament, and he stopped communication.
What about Naniwa then? MC's situation is debatable. Planes get delayed quite often. He could have scheduled his plane ride out of Turkey differently so even if it got delayed, he would make his match. What about all the players that played their matches and are now lower in the rankings than Naniwa/MC because of actually playing their matches?
Edit - I mentioned this in the other MC thread, but I view MC's situation like me being late to the office meeting because of traffic. Just because I called my boss and said "I'm going to be 15 minutes late because of traffic," doesn't make it ok for me to be late. It is still my fault. I should have accounted for the possibility of traffic. I should have left earlier from my house to make it to the office and I didn't.
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On April 21 2011 03:03 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 02:58 Joementum wrote:
Either something needs to be done about the scheduling by loosening it up, or they need to create firm rules on what happens to a player when they miss their match. They had firm rules: Miss your match suddenly = -2 Miss your match with advanced notice or communication = 0 Then everyone started bitching about the best games being missed and NASL tried to make everyone happy by changing the schedule and rules. They shouldn't have done that. The original system was perfect.
Calling it a perfect system is really pushing it imo. It works I guess but by far the shittiest in any tournament so far. You should never be rewarded for missing a match.
F.ex. Ace vs Stalife (not bashing on stalife but I think most would agree that Ace is a heavy favorite for the match) I don't really see any incentive for stalife to show up. Why take a high risk of getting -2 when you can just make up some excuse and get 0 points. If anything they should allow rescheduling if you have a reasonable excuse, but really I think the player who didn't show up should get -2 and give extra penalty points if you provided no valid reason. Having a system that's open to abuse is never perfect.
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On April 21 2011 03:55 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
From what I remember, White-Ra had informed NASL that he couldn't make it, and they had even attempted to get DreamHack to set up a PC for him to play, although to no avail. The difference between White-Ra and MC is that MC's was a 100% unavoidable situation, MC's plane got delayed (because of visa problems of HuK or something) and he was stuck in Turkey. There's literally nothing he could have done about it. We gave every opportunity to Ra to play his match in a big window when he was clearly already finished with the DH tournament, and he stopped communication.
Yeah, this is the difference. It should be pretty obvious. We don't -really- know if MC's was a 100% unavoidable situation, but that's the understanding.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On April 21 2011 04:00 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:03 Chill wrote:On April 21 2011 02:58 Joementum wrote:
Either something needs to be done about the scheduling by loosening it up, or they need to create firm rules on what happens to a player when they miss their match. They had firm rules: Miss your match suddenly = -2 Miss your match with advanced notice or communication = 0 Then everyone started bitching about the best games being missed and NASL tried to make everyone happy by changing the schedule and rules. They shouldn't have done that. The original system was perfect. Calling it a perfect system is really pushing it imo. It works I guess but by far the shittiest in any tournament so far. You should never be rewarded for missing a match. F.ex. Ace vs Stalife (not bashing on stalife but I think most would agree that Ace is a heavy favorite for the match) I don't really see any incentive for stalife to show up. Why take a high risk of getting -2 when you can just make up some excuse and get 0 points. If anything they should allow rescheduling if you have a reasonable excuse, but really I think the player who didn't show up should get -2 and give extra penalty points if you provided no valid reason. Having a system that's open to abuse is never perfect.
I didn't know players lost points for losing a match. I assumed they got 0 - the same as having a justified excuse for missing a match. In that case, yes, this is a major flaw in their system.
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EPT
