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First,
I'm a "genuine" gamer, if that even makes sense. Broodwar / Q3 / CS / WC3 / Dota. I've been playing all these games quite a lot, and I fell in love with each one of them.
When SC2 came out, I wasn't very hyped, but I thought that the pro-scene would make me fall for it, you follow a player, then you like his moves, then you wanna do the same and so on.
But with SC2, It doesn't work.
When I watch TLO / Ret and the likes, I can't help myself to think.. that I'm bored.
Everytime there is a fight, I just wish there could be lurkers and reavers in there, for the sake of woowww, dunno if that makes sense, I'm tired.
I loved broodwar for the High APM, heavy macro and genius moves AND the proscene
I loved WC3 for the sick micro, 5HP saves, artistic gameplay and tricks
I loved Dota for its unreal gameplay/teamplay action, and the joy of controlling highlevel heroes
But in SC2, beyond the money and the huge tournaments, there is almost nothing that I like.
I feel like Blizzard just achieved an average game, with average units, on average maps. There is nothing more than we see right now, unless they really start bringing good units and good ideas in the next sequels, the game will just stay that bad, sorry to say.
I'm not a troll, I'm very sad to be in that state of mind because I'd like to be SC2 biggest fan out there, Hell I even bought MLG HD tickets because I always hope that THIS next event will make me love the game again.
Maybe I'm just too old now ?
Whatever
'night
 
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umm.. I think you are trolling. Either that, or you just want BW in 3d graphics.. SC2 is the best RTS game that could be made that wasnt an exact copy of a previous game..
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I doubt everyone was creative with their units when Broodwar launched. It's only been out for one year and no one knows how to play their race yet. Watch Vibe vs. TLO from NASL day1. That's someone that is coming close to what it should be like. Sheth vs. Artosis was an awesome match up to and an example of how players are still learning how to use all these units together.
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On April 14 2011 08:01 Skyze wrote:
umm.. I think you are trolling. Either that, or you just want BW in 3d graphics.. SC2 is the best RTS game that could be made that wasnt an exact copy of a previous game..
Nah, I don't want bw in 3D. I just think that, units have no personnality whatsoever, does it make sense ?
I believe that, Dragoons, Reavers, Lurkers, Defilers are not quite matched by their replacements in terms of "personnality" ?
If you look at it, Vikings / Immortal / even Stalkers are very basic units. I realize that it's not easy to understand what I want to say, especially since my english is so bad, but I'm not emotionnaly attached to most of the SC2 units, while I was very hooked to concepts of the BW units.
In fights, I don't see anything "amazing" happening. Yes there are forcefields and fungal growth, yes sometimes it's well done... but that's really all there is.
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Anyway If SO many people like the game, it has to be good or at least decent. I'm not blaming the game, I'm blaming myself for not being able to like it. heh..
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I think we defer on what makes a game good
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Everyone has their own opinion
For every person disappointed with SC2, there are a 1000 others who enjoy the game
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the Dagon Knight4009 Posts
In fairness, for most of us, BW hit us quite young. It was also with us an awfully long time; we were kind of the perfect age/timespread to get attached to the units as we learned to incorporate them into our play, or watched the pros do it.
I'll never forget the first couple of times that ZvP just clicked for me and I had my 'sair/DT business going on.
It's that feeling that builds up over time. Already in SC2 there've been a couple of times when I've just thought, "Oh wow, I've really been doing that wrong... how didn't I see this before?" and they still feel good. Just remember that it's all still early days yet 
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Excellent point yejin. SC2 is a good, average game but does lack some of the personality that BW has in its units and gameplay. As for the reason why you feel alone in your opinion, like you pointed out, you are a serious gamer and understand what makes games good and so you pick up on things like that earlier than other people do.
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There's some ways that I think BW is superior, some that I think is inferior. But honestly if you were already so in love with Brood War and have such an attachment to the units(and who doesn't fall in love with Dragoons? They're like stupid puppies.) I have no idea how you could have the same appreciation for their "replacements".
I also feel that watching TLO, Ret, and MLG events was a poor choice if you want to get excited about top level SC2. Those are good players certainly but if you want the best you want GSL. The World Championship is free.
I also think you're being more condescending than you realize if you call SC2 an "average game" :/ I understand that it's your opinion but you have to understand that you're basing it in large part on the fact that you're comparing it to the two greatest legacies in RTS games so far, BW and WC3, and ONLY to those games. If it's worse than WC3 and BW to you, does that automatically put it on the level of the "average" RTS - and what is that, anyway? What games are on SC2's level to you?
IMO in the future people will have a lot of attachments to SC2 units the way people are attached to BW units. Especially banelings. People loooove banelings.
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Brood War players are simply better. When you have so many games where both players simply turtle or walk around back and forth doing nothing it's impossible to make an accurate judgment of the game. There have been many good, great games produced; it's simply not consistent. The game is changing all the time (people who claim that it's not are being obtuse; BW is still not stagnant and how many years have people played it on a professional level?)
You don't just get people like Flash and Jaedong popping out of the vacuum; they were built on hundreds of thousands of professional man-hours. To compare them to TLO and Ret is unfair to both parties.
also no offense but saying that you're a genuine gamer (as if people who play Angry Birds are not) is kind of dumb. Are fans of Harry Potter genuine readers as opposed to someone who reads Ulysses or something like that?
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On April 14 2011 08:34 Redmark wrote:
Brood War players are simply better. When you have so many games where both players simply turtle or walk around back and forth doing nothing it's impossible to make an accurate judgment of the game. There have been many good, great games produced; it's simply not consistent. The game is changing all the time (people who claim that it's not are being obtuse; BW is still not stagnant and how many years have people played it on a professional level?)
You don't just get people like Flash and Jaedong popping out of the vacuum; they were built on hundreds of thousands of professional man-hours. To compare them to TLO and Ret is unfair to both parties.
also no offense but saying that you're a genuine gamer (as if people who play Angry Birds are not) is kind of dumb. Are fans of Harry Potter genuine readers as opposed to someone who reads Ulysses or something like that?
You know, I watch a bit of SC2 and a lot of BW, and I would say that both players are about as good as the other in their respective games. Its not that difficult as a pro to have almost perfect macro and micro is almost a non issue in SC2. I don't really see where players are going to improve and once the strategies become standardized, even the creative aspects will be non existant.
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Please just use the search bar if you feel like bashing SC2 - That was the hottest topic in the beta and during the release. So go back and enjoy yourself reading other people's (quite biased) opinions. It has been done over and over.
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I think the problem you are feeling is that the minimum skill threshold in SC2 is higher than in BW.
In BW, if you sucked at using reavers, they were just bad. They'd waddle into tank lines or die to dragoons or whatever. If you sucked at placing storms (because of no smart casting) they'd do nothing.
in SC2 it is easier to achieve a sort of baseline of skill and as such when the pros pull off perfect storms it isn't quite as WOWWWWW because they aren't THAT different from the ones a relatively midlevel player can do.
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Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
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It's not for everyone. There's nothing wrong with not looking the sequel to a game you liked, or a game that other people might like.
Personally, I wouldn't have minded BW in 3d, but I guess Blizzard had to make some new and cooler looking units to attract new players. The good thing is that I'm a lot better at SC2 than I ever was at BW, and that I actually have friends irl who play.
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On April 14 2011 08:45 Turgid wrote:
Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
I think you are underestimating the macro abilities of top SC2 players. I was watching a SC2 game between grubby and moon and literally the moment moon would lose a unit, his supply would go right back up to 200/200. Even Jaedong you see occisional delay in macro and when you watch stork, frequently during micro intensive moments his money goes up to like 1000.
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It's also a lot harder to macro in BW. Most players don't have all their production structures hotkeyed, so they actually have to look away from the battle to macro back up.
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Obviously it is easier to macro in SC2 compared to BW, but moon going 4sr every time he sees his supply drop when he's already maxed and has larva saved up isn't proof of perfection. Even your mineral count isn't proof of perfect macro. Lots of players are apparently quite inefficient at getting their shit out on the field.
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Calgary25989 Posts
People must really be sure of themselves if they can predict the future of SC2 development so easily.
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On April 14 2011 09:00 Chill wrote:
People must really be sure of themselves if they can predict the future of SC2 development so easily.
This, more than anything. There's no good way to make predictions about how, when, why, or if players will change the way they play SC2. All we have is a war of competing intuitions. The entire process of Brood War developing into the game it is today was predicated on nobody, not even an RTS prodigy crossbred with a build order genius - even iloveoov - was able to figure out everything that could or would happen instantly. They could only make predictions and come up with stuff as they came. None of us are smart enough, prescient enough, or good enough at Starcraft to know anything for sure about where SC2 is going.
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sick of these blogs bitching about how sc2 is already somehow stale in comparison to ALL THESE OTHER GAMES WHICH HAVE BEEN OUT FOR YEARS. your line of argument is bullshit and illogical.
i wasnt into rts games when starcraft first came out. the other day i played vanilla and it was awful without all the broodwar units. why? because i was used to the variety. do i think sc2 is crap because ive not experienced the expansions? no.
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself.
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Maybe I don't watch enough SC2, but I find that there are not quite as many highly tense moments as there were in BW.
Stuff like reaver drops, recall vs emp, impossible hold via dswarm, mines vs goons, lurker vs bio, scourge vs sair, etc. always gets me going
SC2 does have its moments, but seems like much fewer to me.
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On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
sick of these blogs bitching about how sc2 is already somehow stale in comparison to ALL THESE OTHER GAMES WHICH HAVE BEEN OUT FOR YEARS. your line of argument is bullshit and illogical.
i wasnt into rts games when starcraft first came out. the other day i played vanilla and it was awful without all the broodwar units. why? because i was used to the variety. do i think sc2 is crap because ive not experienced the expansions? no.
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself.
But SC2 is supposed to build on BW, you can't just say its a completely new game. In fact, STARCRAFT 2 is in one of the oldest, most thoroughly developed series of all time. And the fact that people still are finding so many flaws in it after 12 years of development makes me think there is a serious underlying problem.
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really i tend to agree with op.
bw was and still is a great game. it had almost everything, a great community, a amazing proscene, and last but not least, it was a great game.
the problem now is that asc2 is boring, there really isn't the hype over players. i follow both scenes, and tbh i enjoy bw more, but since bw has a smaller community, i'm sorta forced to play sc2 if i want to auctally play in tournaments and be competitive.
same thing goes for wc3, love the game, no proscene though.
sc2 is a rather boring game, but has a huge proscene internationally compared to other games. tbh its the only reason i'm playing it still. apperently though i'm not alone. according to idra, every professional player secretly hates the game, and would rather be playing bw.
of course the money is with sc2, so thats where they go
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On April 14 2011 09:19 masterbreti wrote:
sc2 is a rather boring game, but has a huge proscene internationally compared to other games. tbh its the only reason i'm playing it still. apperently though i'm not alone. according to idra, every professional player secretly hates the game, and would rather be playing bw.
of course the money is with sc2, so thats where they go
Yeah I am really looking forward to the day when some of the money that is currently in SC2 is moved over to like halo 10 or something like that and players like Idra can continue playing BW.
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i hope you're all wrong and that sc2 doesnt turn out to be another cs:s with the gsl being a korean equivalent of the cgs.
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On April 14 2011 09:24 Ledcaveman wrote:
i hope you're all wrong and that sc2 doesnt turn out to be another cs:s with the gsl being a korean equivalent of the cgs.
i was just thinking that, and how i want that to happen. cause with gom backup as well as the current popularity in korea, would make bw 10x bigger than it was before sc2, both inernationally and in korea
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On April 14 2011 09:26 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:24 Ledcaveman wrote:
i hope you're all wrong and that sc2 doesnt turn out to be another cs:s with the gsl being a korean equivalent of the cgs. i was just thinking that, and how i want that to happen. cause with gom backup as well as the current popularity in korea, would make bw 10x bigger than it was before sc2, both inernationally and in korea
True. All these players like me came to know about pro BW through SC2 so I think down the road BW will actually be more popular than ever before in the west.
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On April 14 2011 09:28 IamBach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:26 masterbreti wrote:On April 14 2011 09:24 Ledcaveman wrote:
i hope you're all wrong and that sc2 doesnt turn out to be another cs:s with the gsl being a korean equivalent of the cgs. i was just thinking that, and how i want that to happen. cause with gom backup as well as the current popularity in korea, would make bw 10x bigger than it was before sc2, both inernationally and in korea True. All these players like me came to know about pro BW through SC2 so I think down the road BW will actually be more popular than ever before in the west.
lets hope though the money doesn't go into halo 10 or something, but just goes to bw :D
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On April 14 2011 09:29 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:28 IamBach wrote:On April 14 2011 09:26 masterbreti wrote:On April 14 2011 09:24 Ledcaveman wrote:
i hope you're all wrong and that sc2 doesnt turn out to be another cs:s with the gsl being a korean equivalent of the cgs. i was just thinking that, and how i want that to happen. cause with gom backup as well as the current popularity in korea, would make bw 10x bigger than it was before sc2, both inernationally and in korea True. All these players like me came to know about pro BW through SC2 so I think down the road BW will actually be more popular than ever before in the west. lets hope though the money doesn't go into halo 10 or something, but just goes to bw :D
That would be ideal. OMG Jaedong winning $90,000,000(or what ever the prize money is for SC2 tourneys these days) would be a dream.
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brood war is good, but SC2 is a beastly game as well.. and I don't even play it.. I can't wait for the expansions.
XD
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On April 14 2011 08:49 IamBach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 08:45 Turgid wrote:
Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
I think you are underestimating the macro abilities of top SC2 players. I was watching a SC2 game between grubby and moon and literally the moment moon would lose a unit, his supply would go right back up to 200/200. Even Jaedong you see occisional delay in macro and when you watch stork, frequently during micro intensive moments his money goes up to like 1000.
Wait are you seriously comparing sc2 pros to BW pros?
Even average players like Lomo would smash most sc2 pros. I mean seriously, the best sc2 players are.. Iron (MC), Clare (Foxer), MVP, non-koreans, etc.
Just look at that lineup.. I would bet considerable amounts of money that even Airforce Ace would roll over them...
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On April 14 2011 09:45 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 08:49 IamBach wrote:On April 14 2011 08:45 Turgid wrote:
Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
I think you are underestimating the macro abilities of top SC2 players. I was watching a SC2 game between grubby and moon and literally the moment moon would lose a unit, his supply would go right back up to 200/200. Even Jaedong you see occisional delay in macro and when you watch stork, frequently during micro intensive moments his money goes up to like 1000. Wait are you seriously comparing sc2 pros to BW pros? Even average players like Lomo would smash most sc2 pros. I mean seriously, the best sc2 players are.. Iron (MC), Clare (Foxer), MVP, non-koreans, etc. Just look at that lineup.. I would bet considerable amounts of money that even Airforce Ace would roll over them...
At BW no duh but at SC2 I doubt even Jaedong after playing SC2 for 5 months could beat Nestea 100 times out of 100 which is what he could do in BW. Theres just not that many ways you can be better than other players.
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On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
sick of these blogs bitching about how sc2 is already somehow stale in comparison to ALL THESE OTHER GAMES WHICH HAVE BEEN OUT FOR YEARS. your line of argument is bullshit and illogical.
i wasnt into rts games when starcraft first came out. the other day i played vanilla and it was awful without all the broodwar units. why? because i was used to the variety. do i think sc2 is crap because ive not experienced the expansions? no.
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself.
I love how non-confrontational the OP is, only to see a post like this...
Really?
I think a lot of these posts are more out-of-line than the OP (who is not at all actually).
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If you really like BW so much there are BW mods you can play in SC2. Heck the BW campaign was ported to SC2.
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Eh, I think once an opinion of the game boils down to just plain "feeling," then there isn't much that can be done to convince people otherwise.
BW is a brilliant game, and I think a lot of what make old BW fans love the game is a combinations of nostalgia and the game's phenomenal design. SC2 takes this old foundation and attempts to improve on it, though it's quite obvious that many of these "improvements" are quite controversial amongst BW fans.
IMO, I think it was nearly impossible for Blizzard to please both the casual audience who doesn't want a BW clone and the BW fans who wanted a BW remake. Of course, many on TL basically wanted a remake of BW with better graphics, possibly with the same old interface. After browsing more mainstream game sites and forums of other games, however, many non-BW fans are actually extremely skeptical about SC2 thinking that it's just a BW clone with none of the "improvements" that had evolved in the RTS genre since 1998.
Nevertheless, SC2 is still a fantastic RTS game and a great example of how an old-school RTS format can be used even after all these years of "improvements" in the genre. It's not BW, and it is, in some ways, inferior to BW. However, IMO it's still a damn good game that gets really close to being BW without actually being a copy. Honestly, other companies have really dropped the ball when trying to improve on their old RTS franchises (Age of Empires, Command and Conquer), and I think Blizzard has done the best job of making old-school RTS relevant in modern times.
It's not a perfect game, and it's not BW, but SC2 is still a damn good game. However, disliking the game is completely respectable, especially since it seems that OP is finding a lot of entertainment in alternative games besides BW. IMO, I'm not a fan of WC3 or DoTA simply because the gameplay looks quite sluggish and somewhat repetitive in them, especially in WC3 where unit lethality is low and durability is high. However, I do respect that there are features in those games that made them viable e-sports for a while.
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On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself.
Don't forget what sc2 is doing for esports either.
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On April 14 2011 10:08 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself. Don't forget what sc2 is doing for esports either.
Nothing good IMO. Blizzard is suing the best BW/esport providers because of it.
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On April 14 2011 09:48 Tipany wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
sick of these blogs bitching about how sc2 is already somehow stale in comparison to ALL THESE OTHER GAMES WHICH HAVE BEEN OUT FOR YEARS. your line of argument is bullshit and illogical.
i wasnt into rts games when starcraft first came out. the other day i played vanilla and it was awful without all the broodwar units. why? because i was used to the variety. do i think sc2 is crap because ive not experienced the expansions? no.
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself. I love how non-confrontational the OP is, only to see a post like this... Really? I think a lot of these posts are more out-of-line than the OP (who is not at all actually).
+1.
Exactly, you might want to tone down your tone there, caveman. Absolutely no need to tell someone to kill themselves just because they don't like your game. The OP wasn't being aggressive about his opinion. No need to be aggressive about yours.
P.S.: I just saw that you've already been banned once for calling someone a moron. 1 in 27 is not too phenomenal. You'll probably want to chill out with the personal attacks if you want to hang around in the long term.
P.P.S.: I don't think that you've got a valid opinion on vanilla SC at all. You're drawing conclusions about it based on the fact that you played it "the other day"? In the interest of improving your familiarity with vanilla, I'll gladly play some games with you. I tend to think that I could show you a variety of viable strategies!
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On April 14 2011 10:12 IamBach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:08 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself. Don't forget what sc2 is doing for esports either. Nothing good IMO. Blizzard is suing the best BW/esport providers because of it.
how do you know they're suing BECAUSE of sc2? who's to say they wouldn't have sued regardless od sc2
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On April 14 2011 10:12 IamBach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:08 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 14 2011 09:06 Ledcaveman wrote:
i dont understand your need to bitch about a game which isnt even fully released & balanced. at least wait for the first expansion before getting your knickers in a twist over how a vanilla rts game is supposedly stale in comparison to another which has had an expansion or just kill yourself. Don't forget what sc2 is doing for esports either. Nothing good IMO. Blizzard is suing the best BW/esport providers because of it.
Agreed. Until i see Sc2 drawing live crowds like OSL/MSL/PL finals can, I'll remain unconvinced it's doing anything good for esports.
On April 14 2011 10:22 Ledcaveman wrote:
how do you know they're suing BECAUSE of sc2? who's to say they wouldn't have sued regardless od sc2
Well, MAYBE the fact that they waited till around when Sc2 came up to really start pushing this lawsuit through.
Also, good lord dude, learn to capitalize.
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im typing on my phone in bed >implying im going to capitalise. that capitalisation was for emphasis, because typed conversational text seems so dull.
the guy on previous page with the post scripts, you're missing the point. what im saying is foresight and hindsight based comparisons are still bad.
p.s. i wasnt serious about the " kill yourself part," if you hadnt noticed or have and just wanted to get in your ivory tower
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On April 14 2011 09:47 IamBach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:45 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On April 14 2011 08:49 IamBach wrote:On April 14 2011 08:45 Turgid wrote:
Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
I think you are underestimating the macro abilities of top SC2 players. I was watching a SC2 game between grubby and moon and literally the moment moon would lose a unit, his supply would go right back up to 200/200. Even Jaedong you see occisional delay in macro and when you watch stork, frequently during micro intensive moments his money goes up to like 1000. Wait are you seriously comparing sc2 pros to BW pros? Even average players like Lomo would smash most sc2 pros. I mean seriously, the best sc2 players are.. Iron (MC), Clare (Foxer), MVP, non-koreans, etc. Just look at that lineup.. I would bet considerable amounts of money that even Airforce Ace would roll over them... At BW no duh but at SC2 I doubt even Jaedong after playing SC2 for 5 months could beat Nestea 100 times out of 100 which is what he could do in BW. Theres just not that many ways you can be better than other players.
Yea fair point. I guess that's my beef with sc2, the fact that no matter how much JD practiced, he wouldn't be able to beat ZergBong 100 times out of a 100.
btw, I just realized I played a game on iccup with you once, assuming your name on iccup was iambach too. I love Bach!
EDIT: ahh 1k posts! LURKER!
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On April 14 2011 10:46 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:47 IamBach wrote:On April 14 2011 09:45 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On April 14 2011 08:49 IamBach wrote:On April 14 2011 08:45 Turgid wrote:
Actually if you watch closely even high level Korean progamers in SC2 absolutely do not have perfect macro by any means. People get supply blocked and queue units all the time. There is a LOT of room for improvement on that front. Some are better than others, of course.
But right now in Brood War the strategies are "standardized" and the metagame STILL changes. I guess I'm just skeptical that either game will ever be totally figured out, because I've read TL posts literally from 2005(don't criticize what i do in my spare time) claiming that it was unlikely the game would get much more figured out than it already had been. Think about that.
I think you are underestimating the macro abilities of top SC2 players. I was watching a SC2 game between grubby and moon and literally the moment moon would lose a unit, his supply would go right back up to 200/200. Even Jaedong you see occisional delay in macro and when you watch stork, frequently during micro intensive moments his money goes up to like 1000. Wait are you seriously comparing sc2 pros to BW pros? Even average players like Lomo would smash most sc2 pros. I mean seriously, the best sc2 players are.. Iron (MC), Clare (Foxer), MVP, non-koreans, etc. Just look at that lineup.. I would bet considerable amounts of money that even Airforce Ace would roll over them... At BW no duh but at SC2 I doubt even Jaedong after playing SC2 for 5 months could beat Nestea 100 times out of 100 which is what he could do in BW. Theres just not that many ways you can be better than other players. Yea fair point. I guess that's my beef with sc2, the fact that no matter how much JD practiced, he wouldn't be able to beat ZergBong 100 times out of a 100. btw, I just realized I played a game on iccup with you once, assuming your name on iccup was iambach too. I love Bach! EDIT: ahh 1k posts! LURKER!
Yes I have the same name on ICCUP. Are the one that plays piano? Glad to know that you like Bach also. Go to the link in my quote for pure Bach joy.
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