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On April 05 2011 16:04 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 15:42 uNcontroLable wrote:On April 05 2011 15:37 hmunkey wrote:
Why is complaining looked down at as a bad thing? MLG isn't a charity; it is a for-profit organization. It's goal is to make money off us, the viewers and players, so we are entitled to complain. We're both the consumers of their content and the product for their advertisers.
It really bothers me a lot when people jump up to defend companies. Their role is to satisfy us enough that they can take our money -- something MLG clearly didn't do well at last weekend.
Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations. Plz read the OP before debating. As the book puts it “The goal is not to eliminate all complaining. The intent is to eliminate the kind of mindless complaining that doesn’t serve a greater purpose and allow complaining that is justified and worthwhile.” If you think about it, how much better and how much more powerful would we be if every member of our community was committed to offering a solution (or 2) alongside every complaint? “The lag @^#^& sucked and the audio in the venue makes the results invalid” does make known a concern, but how much more useful is “please push Blizzard to come alongside you with solutions like dedicated server or LAN support” and “I think sound-proof booths on the main stage would really improve the experience and, in the long run, save you money.” How much more are you willing to change for someone when they build you up instead of beat you down? Sorry if you think I didn't read what you had to say, because I truly did and I agreed with parts of it to an extent. That said, I'd still like to direct you towards my final paragraph: "Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations." Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I meant, so here I go again. Constructive criticism is a great thing; no one will argue with you there. However, MLG is a company. The pressure is on them to make sure they deliver a satisfactory product, not on us. Personally I don't find whining to be worth my time, but if others want to, they're completely entitled to it. MLG asked for money in exchange for a product they didn't deliver. They didn't donate anything out of the kindness of their hearts. The complaining absolutely helps. It tells MLG they messed up. It shows them that their revenue stream is in jeopardy. It forces them to work towards a solution. If we were talking about the game for charity marathons, I would not be taking the "they're a company, they need to figure it out" standpoint. But we're not, so I am.
I feel like you still don't get it. The post is saying we should complain and air our grievances but in constructive ways. Cynicism and complaining are absolutely NOT crucial for improvement. You can't just say it's crucial and expect us to believe it. Cynicism is the anti-progress. Mindless, cynical complaining only breeds animosity and is usually ignored because it brings nothing positive or constructive to the table. What does help is focused, reasonable, positive, and constructive complaints and suggestions.
Great blog post by the way.
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I read the original post, haven't read the book it mentions but like all of these things there is probably research out there that says the exact opposite. This isn't the first time MLG has had streaming problems, in fact I don't think I've tuned into one that didn't, and every time the issues get blamed on something out of their controll. Is it really that likely that every convention centre that MLG attends just happens to have network/ISP issues the weekend they are there?
While some people did go to far with their bitching, being all happy smily give everyone a gold star has been done to death with MLG already. I had high hopes that this year things would run smoothly but first time up to the plate and we get the worst event as far as streamed content yet. No complaining rule? Sorry not when the majority of the complaining is completely justified IMO
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On April 05 2011 16:20 Zim23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 16:04 hmunkey wrote:On April 05 2011 15:42 uNcontroLable wrote:On April 05 2011 15:37 hmunkey wrote:
Why is complaining looked down at as a bad thing? MLG isn't a charity; it is a for-profit organization. It's goal is to make money off us, the viewers and players, so we are entitled to complain. We're both the consumers of their content and the product for their advertisers.
It really bothers me a lot when people jump up to defend companies. Their role is to satisfy us enough that they can take our money -- something MLG clearly didn't do well at last weekend.
Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations. Plz read the OP before debating. As the book puts it “The goal is not to eliminate all complaining. The intent is to eliminate the kind of mindless complaining that doesn’t serve a greater purpose and allow complaining that is justified and worthwhile.” If you think about it, how much better and how much more powerful would we be if every member of our community was committed to offering a solution (or 2) alongside every complaint? “The lag @^#^& sucked and the audio in the venue makes the results invalid” does make known a concern, but how much more useful is “please push Blizzard to come alongside you with solutions like dedicated server or LAN support” and “I think sound-proof booths on the main stage would really improve the experience and, in the long run, save you money.” How much more are you willing to change for someone when they build you up instead of beat you down? Sorry if you think I didn't read what you had to say, because I truly did and I agreed with parts of it to an extent. That said, I'd still like to direct you towards my final paragraph: "Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations." Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I meant, so here I go again. Constructive criticism is a great thing; no one will argue with you there. However, MLG is a company. The pressure is on them to make sure they deliver a satisfactory product, not on us. Personally I don't find whining to be worth my time, but if others want to, they're completely entitled to it. MLG asked for money in exchange for a product they didn't deliver. They didn't donate anything out of the kindness of their hearts. The complaining absolutely helps. It tells MLG they messed up. It shows them that their revenue stream is in jeopardy. It forces them to work towards a solution. If we were talking about the game for charity marathons, I would not be taking the "they're a company, they need to figure it out" standpoint. But we're not, so I am. I feel like you still don't get it. The post is saying we should complain and air our grievances but in constructive ways. Cynicism and complaining are absolutely NOT crucial for improvement. You can't just say it's crucial and expect us to believe it. Cynicism is the anti-progress. Mindless, cynical complaining only breeds animosity and is usually ignored because it brings nothing positive or constructive to the table. What does help is focused, reasonable, positive, and constructive complaints and suggestions. Great blog post by the way.
I feel like you're missing his point. His point is that it's not our job to help MLG improve. That's what people pay them to do. Cynicism seems to work great in our capitalist system. I mean, if I don't believe they'll do a good job next time, I won't buy from them. Call me a cynic, but it works. In fact, it's exactly this form of cynicism that yields progress.
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 05 2011 16:20 Zim23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 16:04 hmunkey wrote:On April 05 2011 15:42 uNcontroLable wrote:On April 05 2011 15:37 hmunkey wrote:
Why is complaining looked down at as a bad thing? MLG isn't a charity; it is a for-profit organization. It's goal is to make money off us, the viewers and players, so we are entitled to complain. We're both the consumers of their content and the product for their advertisers.
It really bothers me a lot when people jump up to defend companies. Their role is to satisfy us enough that they can take our money -- something MLG clearly didn't do well at last weekend.
Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations. Plz read the OP before debating. As the book puts it “The goal is not to eliminate all complaining. The intent is to eliminate the kind of mindless complaining that doesn’t serve a greater purpose and allow complaining that is justified and worthwhile.” If you think about it, how much better and how much more powerful would we be if every member of our community was committed to offering a solution (or 2) alongside every complaint? “The lag @^#^& sucked and the audio in the venue makes the results invalid” does make known a concern, but how much more useful is “please push Blizzard to come alongside you with solutions like dedicated server or LAN support” and “I think sound-proof booths on the main stage would really improve the experience and, in the long run, save you money.” How much more are you willing to change for someone when they build you up instead of beat you down? Sorry if you think I didn't read what you had to say, because I truly did and I agreed with parts of it to an extent. That said, I'd still like to direct you towards my final paragraph: "Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations." Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I meant, so here I go again. Constructive criticism is a great thing; no one will argue with you there. However, MLG is a company. The pressure is on them to make sure they deliver a satisfactory product, not on us. Personally I don't find whining to be worth my time, but if others want to, they're completely entitled to it. MLG asked for money in exchange for a product they didn't deliver. They didn't donate anything out of the kindness of their hearts. The complaining absolutely helps. It tells MLG they messed up. It shows them that their revenue stream is in jeopardy. It forces them to work towards a solution. If we were talking about the game for charity marathons, I would not be taking the "they're a company, they need to figure it out" standpoint. But we're not, so I am. I feel like you still don't get it. The post is saying we should complain and air our grievances but in constructive ways. Cynicism and complaining are absolutely NOT crucial for improvement. You can't just say it's crucial and expect us to believe it. Cynicism is the anti-progress. Mindless, cynical complaining only breeds animosity and is usually ignored because it brings nothing positive or constructive to the table. What does help is focused, reasonable, positive, and constructive complaints and suggestions. Great blog post by the way. I am going to go ahead and play devil's advocate..... how many times have people said players hearing commentators is a huge problem? And not just random idiots flaming on the forums, prominent players have come out and said this is a very big issue, there's an interview from this very MLG where IdrA says he heard the commentator's say his opponent was going for Void Rays off 1 base, he takes that information, and gets a free win. Makes it very difficult to take the tournament seriously as a whole, how can people not be cynical about this kind of thing? If I'm the player who has my build exposed, I think I'm going to be pretty damn cynical about it, unfortunately the attitude seems to be "deal with it."
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On April 05 2011 16:25 pieman819 wrote:
While some people did go to far with their bitching, being all happy smily give everyone a gold star has been done to death with MLG already. I had high hopes that this year things would run smoothly but first time up to the plate and we get the worst event as far as streamed content yet. No complaining rule? Sorry not when the majority of the complaining is completely justified IMO
Another person who should read the entire post before responding. Nobody advocated giving MLG a blank check of approval, a gold star, or "happy smiley" reponses. We're advocating mature, intelligent, constructive discourse here. Nothing more, nothing less.
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On April 05 2011 16:17 AzurewinD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 15:52 hmunkey wrote:On April 05 2011 15:44 drewbie.root wrote:
hmunkey, you can't view MLG as just another business. If the Radio Shack in your town keeps messing up despite constant complaining, people will stop going there, and it will close down. Big deal. If that happens to Major League Gaming, suddenly we don't have a place to congregate, we don't have an avenue for live competitive play for thousands of dollars six times a year throughout the country. If we don't support MLG despite their short-comings, the game that we watch and play and discuss here every day would take a huge blow to its success and its feasibility for competition and for entertainment.
Edit: LOL LOOK I'M DREWBIE. Just kidding, this is JoshSuth. I'm using drewbie's laptop to export videos, forgot to log out. My bad. =P So I should support MLG despite any mistakes the make and the complainers are in the wrong solely because MLG is important? I disagree with that notion. Maybe it's the pragmatist in me, maybe the cynic, but I don't think companies should be able to deliver a shoddy product regardless of their position. Hiding under the label of "supporting eSports" doesn't mean they shouldn't receive as much criticism as any other business. Thankfully though, we now have the IPL and NASL, and with competition MLG will be forced to improve their events out of necessity. The same mindset applies to pretty much every company when you think about it. If Google was unable to maintain a site with accurate results and steady uptime, you can bet people will complain. However, we're lucky Google has stuff competition and thus makes sure their product is the best it can be. With the new western eSports competition we have here, MLG will hopefully do the same. I hope you understand that you're essentially arguing that we will get better results out of companies by being Grade A Douchebags than by tempering criticisms with constructive commentary. We're all representatives of the esports community, we should conduct ourselves as such. This: Show nested quote +'I'm dissatisfied with the product you offered because of X, Y and Z. I think you should consider A, B, and C as future options, otherwise you will lose my patronage" ...speaks volumes more than this: Show nested quote +"You're a fucking terrible company. You and your employees are all the sons of whores; the spawn of Satan himself, sucking the tainted cock of mediocrity. " Nowhere did she state we should blindly support MLG. This is why you're getting comments in the vein of " read the original post". Hope that clears things up a bit.
He's not arguing that at all? Anyone can agree with the statement "Hey guys lets be constructive" over "Hey guys let's complain and not be constructive." hmunkey is just offering the other side of the coin, should we still be "positive" to companies that don't deliver? I don't think it's fair to the community to be let down over and over again and and be told "Well just be more constructive, it's good for eSports."
I'm sure MLG is sincere in their endeavors, but actions speak louder than words. It's unfortunate that they need to work extra hard to accommodate for the shortcomings of a venue, but I think the weekend's experience shouldn't go unscathed.
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On April 05 2011 16:25 pieman819 wrote:
I read the original post, haven't read the book it mentions but like all of these things there is probably research out there that says the exact opposite. This isn't the first time MLG has had streaming problems, in fact I don't think I've tuned into one that didn't, and every time the issues get blamed on something out of their controll. Is it really that likely that every convention centre that MLG attends just happens to have network/ISP issues the weekend they are there?
While some people did go to far with their bitching, being all happy smily give everyone a gold star has been done to death with MLG already. I had high hopes that this year things would run smoothly but first time up to the plate and we get the worst event as far as streamed content yet. No complaining rule? Sorry not when the majority of the complaining is completely justified IMO
positive reinforcement is better then mostly negative reactions.
MLG doesn't need us to tell them 'You f**ked up', they know, they apologized, they promised to do their best to fix the problem.
Sure it took them 2 and a half days to show more then 5 games but there is 100% a silver lining to this, Sundance said that they received more then twice the viewers they expected, which means 2 things:
1) Esports is clearly on the rise and MLG now recognizes not only the effort they will have to put in to broadcasting to the masses but also how big of an opportunity this is for them, imagine telling your sponsors 'within 5 months our viewer base has more then doubled'
2) Something like this had to happen eventually, and now that it has happened all of the other major productions and live streams of competitive gaming will have an example to take to not only learn from but use as a reference in the future.
NASL and IGN will obviously have learned from this and will without a doubt be prepared for any number of viewers tuning in.
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On April 05 2011 16:36 AzurewinD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 16:25 pieman819 wrote:
While some people did go to far with their bitching, being all happy smily give everyone a gold star has been done to death with MLG already. I had high hopes that this year things would run smoothly but first time up to the plate and we get the worst event as far as streamed content yet. No complaining rule? Sorry not when the majority of the complaining is completely justified IMO Another person who should read the entire post before responding. Nobody advocated giving MLG a blank check of approval, a gold star, or "happy smiley" reponses. We're advocating mature, intelligent, constructive discourse here. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don't understand the blanket premise that complaints aren't constructive, mature, or intelligent.
I mean, I see things thrown around like, be mature, be concise, don't whine.
Well, aren't we throwing a negative stigma out there on something that... isn't so bad? Complaining can be very intelligent if articulated correctly. Read some of Lalush's OPs from beta and stuff, and they're always well thought-out complaints. I also see professionals in my field complain about theories and technicalities of other's, but it's always in an intelligent manner too. Is it wrong to point out a mistake without offering the answer? I'd say not. Maybe you want the other person (or entity in this case) to figure out the answer themselves. After all, I'm quite lazy 
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On April 05 2011 16:32 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 16:20 Zim23 wrote:On April 05 2011 16:04 hmunkey wrote:On April 05 2011 15:42 uNcontroLable wrote:On April 05 2011 15:37 hmunkey wrote:
Why is complaining looked down at as a bad thing? MLG isn't a charity; it is a for-profit organization. It's goal is to make money off us, the viewers and players, so we are entitled to complain. We're both the consumers of their content and the product for their advertisers.
It really bothers me a lot when people jump up to defend companies. Their role is to satisfy us enough that they can take our money -- something MLG clearly didn't do well at last weekend.
Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations. Plz read the OP before debating. As the book puts it “The goal is not to eliminate all complaining. The intent is to eliminate the kind of mindless complaining that doesn’t serve a greater purpose and allow complaining that is justified and worthwhile.” If you think about it, how much better and how much more powerful would we be if every member of our community was committed to offering a solution (or 2) alongside every complaint? “The lag @^#^& sucked and the audio in the venue makes the results invalid” does make known a concern, but how much more useful is “please push Blizzard to come alongside you with solutions like dedicated server or LAN support” and “I think sound-proof booths on the main stage would really improve the experience and, in the long run, save you money.” How much more are you willing to change for someone when they build you up instead of beat you down? Sorry if you think I didn't read what you had to say, because I truly did and I agreed with parts of it to an extent. That said, I'd still like to direct you towards my final paragraph: "Complaining and cynicism can be negative things, but they're absolutely crucial for improvement. We're no longer in grade school where constructive criticism is the only way to handle things. We're dealing with multimillion dollar organizations." Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I meant, so here I go again. Constructive criticism is a great thing; no one will argue with you there. However, MLG is a company. The pressure is on them to make sure they deliver a satisfactory product, not on us. Personally I don't find whining to be worth my time, but if others want to, they're completely entitled to it. MLG asked for money in exchange for a product they didn't deliver. They didn't donate anything out of the kindness of their hearts. The complaining absolutely helps. It tells MLG they messed up. It shows them that their revenue stream is in jeopardy. It forces them to work towards a solution. If we were talking about the game for charity marathons, I would not be taking the "they're a company, they need to figure it out" standpoint. But we're not, so I am. I feel like you still don't get it. The post is saying we should complain and air our grievances but in constructive ways. Cynicism and complaining are absolutely NOT crucial for improvement. You can't just say it's crucial and expect us to believe it. Cynicism is the anti-progress. Mindless, cynical complaining only breeds animosity and is usually ignored because it brings nothing positive or constructive to the table. What does help is focused, reasonable, positive, and constructive complaints and suggestions. Great blog post by the way. I feel like you're missing his point. His point is that it's not our job to help MLG improve. That's what people pay them to do. Cynicism seems to work great in our capitalist system. I mean, if I don't believe they'll do a good job next time, I won't buy from them. Call me a cynic, but it works. In fact, it's exactly this form of cynicism that yields progress.
It's not about whether or not the complaining is justified, it's about what will get better results so we can all enjoy a better MLG, and that is undoubtedly constructive criticism. Yes there were huge huge failures, and yes that really makes people want to vent and troll, and yes that might be a valid choice, but it doesn't help things get better. You get what I'm saying? I also get the urge to be mean and cynical, but I really want to see improvement in the next MLG, and that will definitely be more likely with some constructive, reasonable criticism. Good smart complaints = more chance to be heard and more chance for improvement = a hopefully better MLG.
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On April 05 2011 16:38 shindigs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 16:17 AzurewinD wrote:On April 05 2011 15:52 hmunkey wrote:On April 05 2011 15:44 drewbie.root wrote:
hmunkey, you can't view MLG as just another business. If the Radio Shack in your town keeps messing up despite constant complaining, people will stop going there, and it will close down. Big deal. If that happens to Major League Gaming, suddenly we don't have a place to congregate, we don't have an avenue for live competitive play for thousands of dollars six times a year throughout the country. If we don't support MLG despite their short-comings, the game that we watch and play and discuss here every day would take a huge blow to its success and its feasibility for competition and for entertainment.
Edit: LOL LOOK I'M DREWBIE. Just kidding, this is JoshSuth. I'm using drewbie's laptop to export videos, forgot to log out. My bad. =P So I should support MLG despite any mistakes the make and the complainers are in the wrong solely because MLG is important? I disagree with that notion. Maybe it's the pragmatist in me, maybe the cynic, but I don't think companies should be able to deliver a shoddy product regardless of their position. Hiding under the label of "supporting eSports" doesn't mean they shouldn't receive as much criticism as any other business. Thankfully though, we now have the IPL and NASL, and with competition MLG will be forced to improve their events out of necessity. The same mindset applies to pretty much every company when you think about it. If Google was unable to maintain a site with accurate results and steady uptime, you can bet people will complain. However, we're lucky Google has stuff competition and thus makes sure their product is the best it can be. With the new western eSports competition we have here, MLG will hopefully do the same. I hope you understand that you're essentially arguing that we will get better results out of companies by being Grade A Douchebags than by tempering criticisms with constructive commentary. We're all representatives of the esports community, we should conduct ourselves as such. This: 'I'm dissatisfied with the product you offered because of X, Y and Z. I think you should consider A, B, and C as future options, otherwise you will lose my patronage" ...speaks volumes more than this: "You're a fucking terrible company. You and your employees are all the sons of whores; the spawn of Satan himself, sucking the tainted cock of mediocrity. " Nowhere did she state we should blindly support MLG. This is why you're getting comments in the vein of " read the original post". Hope that clears things up a bit. He's not arguing that at all? Anyone can agree with the statement "Hey guys lets be constructive" over "Hey guys let's complain and not be constructive." hmunkey is just offering the other side of the coin, should we still be "positive" to companies that don't deliver? I don't think it's fair to the community to be let down over and over again and and be told "Well just be more constructive, it's good for eSports."
So what is your alternative then? To not be constructive? To not be a mature adult and simply take your money elsewhere?
I think people are defining "constructive" as "the absence of criticism", which isnt the case at all. Criticize, break it down, point it out, by all means and in all ways. But do it with an eye to the future and with a spirit of progress.
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What good does it do to complain in this manner? What good are you offering to the world by tearing this event apart, even if it wasn't the smoothest? Constructive criticism at least gives something to the MLG folk who are trying their darndest to tame this wild beast we call E-sports. Excellent post Anna, and to all the previous posters who support the constructive criticism, hip hip hurray!
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this blog rings like motivational text taken straight from a book, that can be applied to any controversial situation between a company and its customers. i find this a bit insulting to my intelligence actually.
i would much rather you would have taken a more personal, less 'anna proser: professional', approach to the subject. as is, however well written and correct in its main point, this blog seems really hollow to me.
i guess people sense this instinctively or they simply don't agree (and in all fairness there's several arguments to disagree with the postivistic philosophy), hence all the negative replies to this thread.
on the topic though, the community should give less shit to organizers, and organizers of large tournaments seriously need to start respecting the community and treating them and the events with professionalism, unlike they have done so far.
to put it in simple terms, i don't care at all if the ceo of this or that company is a fellow gamer and he posts on teamliquid answering my questions directly in a friendly fashion, if their tournament formats and broadcasts fail horribly. i'll take the stuck-up business asshole that delivers on the content consistently and gives the players proper conditions to grow as professionals - and you can keep the gamer dudes for pr.
also, people need to hold out on their anger and tone down their expectations for esports growth at this point for a bit, rushing things only fucks it up, and there's many steps to go through before we can have events like this mlg was supposed to have been had it lived up to the hype the idealistic community envisioned.
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What positve reinforcement can we give though?
Sure was a shame having stream problems for the 6th event in a row, shucks, I sure hope you can not have problems next time. Keep your chin up!
Gee players being able to hear the crowd and casters is surely a bad thing that has been brought up alot, not sure how you could have seen that coming! maybe next time you can have something in place to stop that happening!
next time
next time
next time
But hey at least there was alot of seats for people to sit in and not watch games on for hours on end.
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I read and understood the OP perfectly fine. I just don't see any reason to go positive on MLG at all after this disaster. If you ask me, they didn't even try, else the 1 hour break on day 3 can not be explained.
Let's look at this last MLG:
The SC2-"Area" was way bigger. Thats nice and shows that they try to improve... Sadly, most of the vieweres don't care about this because the live visitors are only a tiny fraction of the actual viewers.
Having no commentary for the live viewers is a huge bummer and a step back from last year, it takes away from the "event" feeling that this should bring to the people.
I wonder why IEM, Dreamhack and other "big" events could do this "decently" on their first try and MLG, on their 4th, still can't... These 3 companies all had experience with other E-Sport events before SC2 hit and before they decided to bring SC2 in, yet only one of the 3 did terrible (ok, MLG had probably no RTS experience, but just watching how the others do it, would have helped them a ton).
The experience for online viewers (in others words the Majority).
Day 1+2 = basically none/waiting.
Day 3 = starts with delay but at least there is a stream and we see some games... Suddenly there is a 1 Hour(+) break in casting while games like Inctonrol vs TLO, Idra vs TLO, Socke vs Kiwikaki and probably some more were running. Even the casters are reading various Twitters and seem to have no clue what actually is going on at the actual event (which for sure isn't the casters fault).
I seriously don't feel like critisizing MLG positively or negatively for that... I feel like someone should take their 52 Million budget and actually do something decent with it.
If an event choses or is not able to show games, even when the stream is finally running, after 2 days of HUGE problems with said stream, then this event is a failure and should die.
I don't see at all why i should have a positive attitude towards MLG just because it is "E-SPORTS", if E-Sports is what MLG has shown the past weekend, E-Sports should not be supported because it's clearly less entertaining then "Dart"....
Or advice?
Go back to the MLG Finals 2010. Improve from there, forget everything you did that last weekend and hope everyone else will also o so.
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I love how everyone is treating this issue like its black and white. You can either be WITH eSports or AGAINST it! NO Inbetween!
People are complaining in constructive ways, but there are people treating the criticism like an attack on eSports in general, when in fact people are just trying to protect their own investment. Last year, MLG let us down, which was understandable for introducing a game half way through their season. Months later, and we are let down again. It wasn't all their fault, but they made promises and didn't deliver. I had the stream on a second monitor all weekend and caught a dozen or so games casted, many from replays. I give mad props to Day9, DJwheat, and JP for handling it so well, and MLG had an understandably difficult time at the venue, but a product is a product, and I'm a consumer. If you don't deliver the service you promise, I'm demanding better service or I'm not supporting you anymore, it's as simple as that. Survival of the fittest and the Free Market and all that.
If MLG abandons Starcraft 2 because of all the problems, so be it. The game is so amazing that MLG would have to fuck up, without improvement, for every single event this year in order for that to happen. The scene is growing and people can't get enough eSports. If a tournament fails, it's because it deserves it, to be honest.
Everyone seems to want to talk about positivity: You know what would be amazing for eSports? If MLG got their shit together and delivered a great experience, with the video resolution they promised without requiring me to use my own upload for their streaming service (Octoshape) and there wasn't 45 minutes of downtown while games were being played. MLG can look at other tournaments and see what they do well, apply it to their own model, and come out with something incredible for the growth of eSports. Instead, they've improved the live event while letting down the people at home. I want you to succeed SO BAD MLG, I really do, but you aren't giving me what I want.
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A question to myself: Did the massive outcry from SC communities after the catastrophe that was MLG Dallas put fear into the hearts of the organizers of MLG?
The answer to that is: Damn right it put fear into their hearts.
You know what fear does? It motivates people. If a thousand people instantly begin complaining, then they know they've done something majorly wrong, and they will work their damnedest to improve on their mistakes, BECAUSE they're afraid of failing even greater. That is a good thing. Collectively, unconstructive criticism is a good thing because it makes those in charge want to avoid it. Like the old saying goes, "lighting fire under their asses".
And you can't cook without fire. We provide that fire. Sure fire can burn you if you keep your ass on top of it, but it motivates those on top to get the hell off and finish cooking their meal so we all can eat.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
pieman819: I think you're completely missing the point. What did your whining just accomplish? What will it EVER accomplish? Even with your sarcastic-asshole comments about the MLG experience - you are contributing nothing, helping nothing, and in fact, causing nothing more than resentment. Lose the sense of entitlement.
Having worked in the corporate setting for a while now, I can attest to the fact that there is nothing that will absolutely kill productivity more than negative attitudes/complaining (Note: Complaining does NOT mean that you can't bring up something that isn't working). Anna was simply pointing out that there are better ways to view these types of situations, and I agree 100%.
Your comments do little more than to perpetuate negative stereotypes that gamers lack maturity. Oh, and I know you probably don't care. That just makes her point even MORE valid. -_-
Anyways, <3 Anna. 
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Uh... Okay. E-sports to me is just like a story I know called "The Puppy Who Lost His Way." The world was changing, and the puppy was getting... bigger.
So, you see, the puppy was like MLG. In that, they were both lost in the woods. And nobody, especially the little boy - "society" - knew where to find 'em. Except that the puppy was a dog. But the E-sports, my friends, that was a revolution.
Knibb High football rules!
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Yea, negative attitudes and complaining can kill a workplace, if it's being done by the workers, not by the customers.
If the customers are collectively angry / complaining it's NOT going to kill productivity. You think MLG is seeing all this negativity / whining / bitching and are crawling up in a corner going "Aww QQ the internet is being mean to us." No, they're going to (hopefully) get their shit together in time for next MLG. Collective complaining isn't a bad thing when you're considering the context. The customers got a shit product and we have every right to complain. If all this complaining stifles the product MLG puts out because they're upset their customers are mad then they're probably not cut out to run a multi-million dollar business, sorry.
And how are anyone's comments in here perpetuating the negativity that surrounds gamer stereotypes? Shit like this happens in ALL BUSINESSES THAT INVOLVE CUSTOMERS AND A PAID PRODUCT. If someone consistently puts out a shit product, then people are going to complain about it if it's something they really want, and eventually if the company doesn't get their shit together the customer's just going to leave and find it somewhere else. This isn't just gamers being immature or some stupid stereotype, it's the CUSTOMERS getting a BAD PRODUCT and telling the company that it's unacceptable.
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Constructive Feedback ^^:
One of the main-problems that come to my mind while thinking about the MLG this weekend is that there only was one game that the casters did wait for at a time like only one game is planned for the main-stage so they can only cast this and nothing else (from the sid-stages or w/e its called).
As the technical difficulties occured for this main-stage-game the casters had no fallback-game to cast. The reason for that is entirely unknown to me as we live in a "connected" world and at least technically it should be possible to access any game from where the casters where.
I would suggest to find ways to at least have one fallback game if the mainstage has problems. Sure, you don't know if the main-stage-problem will be resolved fast and you surely don't want to miss the top-match..
What really would be great would be a technology like HLTV for Starcraft 2. That you can attend any running game if there are free slots available if one knows the match-ID.
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EPT
