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It's too early for all that.
Yeah BW set up SC2 for esports. But SC2 isn't balanced yet, and the metagame is constantly changing. Nothing is really set in stone yet, the best of the best have yet to arrive. Right now SC2 as an esport really isn't that strong.
We just want to quickly rush this game and emulate the BW atmosphere. Personally I don't see how an unbalanced game can be considered an esport.
We're all just in a rush. We're in a rush to balance this game. We're in a rush to make it as entertaining if not more than BW. We're in a rush to become legends. We're in a rush to make money off the game. Everyone wants the game to completely overcome the BW shadow, however, that will take time.
I think it starts with balancing the game first. Just because there is money to be made from SC2, doesn't mean the game meets the criteria of an esport. Sports are balanced, so that the spectator and the players truly believe that skill is the defining factor. That's what makes them entertaining. SC2 has a way to go before it can achieve that.
When Stork losses against Jeadong, that shit can break my heart, completely ruin my day. I don't have the similar passion for SC2. Whether or not a protoss player wins or losses, I feel that despite his skill I know the game isn't balanced anyway. So it doesn't matter as much.
As a spectator the micro moments aren't that impressive either....Tyler's 24 kill zealot was hot, but you don't get a lot of that in SC2, and if you do you know that someone will QQ and blizzard will address that.
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On March 21 2011 13:36 KaveX wrote:
I'm not going to justify myself here. If you feel that I'm wrong, sorry for wasting your time. As for sources, I regularly talk with various people working in esports full-time, including managers of professional clans (refering to Audron's player source question). I have clean conscience about what I wrote above, sorry if it's not as scientific as you'd want it to be.
It's one thing to express an opinion. It's another to write an article-like post as if it's fact (all the while discrediting other people who're just speaking their opinions)
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awesome read - true story about the CPL !
I still remember Painkiller and Quake played by fatal1ty - those times are over. too bad. :'(
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Anyway: Just be aware that 100 000 $ prize money three times a year is a lot of money and there is a reason why MLG and ESL both can't keep up with that. The real challenge isn't setting up something like the NASL, but actually making it sustainable. It will be a tough job to find a business model that will justify such big investments - and there is a chance that iNcontroL and the others fail at it and the NASL joins other ambitious projects like CPL, WSVG, CGS and, at least temporarily, ESWC. I certainly hope they don't, but please understand that there is no guarantee that there will be more than the initial three seasons. And that adding a tournament with a high prize money pool and a great field of participants is a great thing, but it will not make e-sports suddenly become much bigger.
I disagree. You can't compare NASL and MLG like this. The NASL can afford a prize money like this because their tourney is mostly online and their content is made in a single permanent place; they don't need to rent super expensive convention center and have truck moving around the country with expensive computers/equipements/etc unlike MLG.
I'm pretty sure that overall MLG is investing and spending much more money than NASL. So I'm pretty sure that the NASL won't fail.
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On March 21 2011 13:36 KaveX wrote:
I'm not going to justify myself here. If you feel that I'm wrong, sorry for wasting your time. As for sources, I regularly talk with various people working in esports full-time, including managers of professional clans (refering to Audron's player source question). I have clean conscience about what I wrote above, sorry if it's not as scientific as you'd want it to be.
If you're not going to justify yourself, source your comments, and basically just state your opinion like everyone else then how can you name your topic "Truths about the e-sports industry"? You should change it to "My opinion on the e-sports industry" and should probably make it a blog.
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On March 21 2011 13:39 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +
Anyway: Just be aware that 100 000 $ prize money three times a year is a lot of money and there is a reason why MLG and ESL both can't keep up with that. The real challenge isn't setting up something like the NASL, but actually making it sustainable. It will be a tough job to find a business model that will justify such big investments - and there is a chance that iNcontroL and the others fail at it and the NASL joins other ambitious projects like CPL, WSVG, CGS and, at least temporarily, ESWC. I certainly hope they don't, but please understand that there is no guarantee that there will be more than the initial three seasons. And that adding a tournament with a high prize money pool and a great field of participants is a great thing, but it will not make e-sports suddenly become much bigger.
.
I disagree. You can't compare NASL and MLG like this. The NASL can afford a prize money like this because their tourney is mostly online and their content is made in a single permanent place; they don't need to rent super expensive convention center and have truck moving around the country with expensive computers/equipements/etc unlike MLG. I'm pretty sure that overall MLG is investing and spending much more money than NASL. So I'm pretty sure that the NASL won't fail.
Valid point. I was assuming that the NASL was intending to grow as a business to become like MLG one day, but if having little organizational costs is part of the strategy, it could turn out pretty well.
On March 21 2011 13:42 cha0 wrote:
If you're not going to justify yourself, source your comments, and basically just state your opinion like everyone else then how can you name your topic "Truths about the e-sports industry"?
Because I possess the ignorance to assume that my opinions are better-educated than the opinions of an average TL user. Feel free to dispute it, I'm not saying it's impossible that I'm wrong with some points.
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You really come off like a dick. LIke really badly. Not sure you can edit your personality out but it definitely hits us the wrong way, and for someone trying to get us to agree with them thats generally bad.
I mean to me youre some random nerd with a dash of cynicism who thinks he's better than everyone so first off I definitely don't respect you and I definitely don't like you, which again puts me off to your opinion.
As to your content though, it doesnt really seem so factual based as an opinion. Maybe show me how you actually matter and i could take you seriously for what your spitting out. But lets try and take you seriously...
I would agree with you on the point on not having players have large salaries to trade for more players. But maybe I would interject that one, maybe investors and teams havn't really understood the value of an ace, like an idra. It could be just as well that there will never be an ace because everyone is so good and things will go like it is, or its just a matter of time we get Jaedong esq salaries as certain players get more and more dominating.
But as to saying "esports has already happened" i disagree. Sure i agree that it is growing yes, but we are saying happen in a far larger scale like that. More like when will it be socially acceptable like it is in korea. Not just big tournies happening.
In your second bold point, this really shows a lack of knowledge of the Bw scene and SC in general to say progaming houses arent a neccessity for better players. To that, I say you could not be more wrong, and actually do some fact gathering and learn that Korean BW players could rape foreigners no problem because they were in team houses.
To the next bold term, its just the idea of again, if you do devote all your time to sc you'll just be better. Not that you can't be successful if you focus on other things besides sc, its just if you do you'll be better. And also maybe you are right, and people do just think its a plane ticket blocking them from GSL, but I think maybe people are smarter than that is what is keeping them from GSL is literally moving to another place which is something different in itself. And also the tradeoff of just playing in less tournament all together.
And to the last, it is revolutionary for Starcraft. Yeah whatever there have been bigger ones for other communities, but not Starcraft and thats why it is important. And if you have feedback for NASL how bout you try and tell NASL. But I dont know, Im not a professional.
Youre last paragraph though does show a lame bright side.
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On March 21 2011 13:43 KaveX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 13:39 Shodaa wrote:
Anyway: Just be aware that 100 000 $ prize money three times a year is a lot of money and there is a reason why MLG and ESL both can't keep up with that. The real challenge isn't setting up something like the NASL, but actually making it sustainable. It will be a tough job to find a business model that will justify such big investments - and there is a chance that iNcontroL and the others fail at it and the NASL joins other ambitious projects like CPL, WSVG, CGS and, at least temporarily, ESWC. I certainly hope they don't, but please understand that there is no guarantee that there will be more than the initial three seasons. And that adding a tournament with a high prize money pool and a great field of participants is a great thing, but it will not make e-sports suddenly become much bigger.
.
I disagree. You can't compare NASL and MLG like this. The NASL can afford a prize money like this because their tourney is mostly online and their content is made in a single permanent place; they don't need to rent super expensive convention center and have truck moving around the country with expensive computers/equipements/etc unlike MLG. I'm pretty sure that overall MLG is investing and spending much more money than NASL. So I'm pretty sure that the NASL won't fail. Valid point. I was assuming that the NASL was intending to grow as a business to become like MLG one day, but if having little organizational costs is part of the strategy, it could turn out pretty well.
Yea, Don't think NASL plans to be as big or surpass MLG.
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I dont think you're giving Progaming houses enough credit. First of all, it may be cheaper than you think. 6-8 people living in a house sharing the cost can be extremely cheap.
Also the point is that you are playing starcraft all day, you are talking with your teammates all day, and you are coming up with strategies with them all day! You sit there and talk about this and that and oh this what be a great idea to counter that and oh look at this new build I thought of lets go try it out. With a progaming house you can accomplish so much more than just laddering and skyping with friends. It's a whole different lifestyle.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I agree with most of what the OP says. NASL is a great concept, but it is definitely not new and has had many predecessors fail who had much larger budgets, talent pools and sponsors. That being said, i'm most interested to see what they do with their production.
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It's really nice to have an opinion isn't it.... This should just be disregarded, as it doesn't bring about intelligent well thought out arguments. Its just some guys broad opinion, on something he can not claim to know anything about. Stipulating otherwise is just wrong, and frankly somewhat naive.
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On March 21 2011 13:22 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 13:11 KaveX wrote:
So if you ask a Western pro-gamer if he'd rather live in a house with his team mates or have 400 $ more on his bank account each month, what will he choose? I'd rather live in a programing house.
Well I guess it really depends on your income, if you have 400 dollars to throw away all and time to play starcraft2 all day, then follow your dreams!
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On March 21 2011 13:36 KaveX wrote:
I'm not going to justify myself here. If you feel that I'm wrong, sorry for wasting your time.
As for sources, I regularly talk with various people working in e-sports full-time, including managers of professional clans (refering to Audron's player source question). I have clean conscience about what I wrote above, sorry if it's not as scientific as you'd want it to be.
That seems like a very odd thing to say, considering the tone and stucture of the post.
When the first paragraph is... Reading through TeamLiquid, I oftentimes notice that people have wrong assumptions about the current state and development potential of e-sports. In particular, many TL users seem to overestimate the influence of the NASL. Let me try to shed some light on this issue.
... it doesn't sound like you are just stating some broad opinion with no tangible reasons or evidence. Hard to take anything you say seriously now, even if i agree with some of it.
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On March 21 2011 13:43 KaveX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 13:39 Shodaa wrote:
Anyway: Just be aware that 100 000 $ prize money three times a year is a lot of money and there is a reason why MLG and ESL both can't keep up with that. The real challenge isn't setting up something like the NASL, but actually making it sustainable. It will be a tough job to find a business model that will justify such big investments - and there is a chance that iNcontroL and the others fail at it and the NASL joins other ambitious projects like CPL, WSVG, CGS and, at least temporarily, ESWC. I certainly hope they don't, but please understand that there is no guarantee that there will be more than the initial three seasons. And that adding a tournament with a high prize money pool and a great field of participants is a great thing, but it will not make e-sports suddenly become much bigger.
.
I disagree. You can't compare NASL and MLG like this. The NASL can afford a prize money like this because their tourney is mostly online and their content is made in a single permanent place; they don't need to rent super expensive convention center and have truck moving around the country with expensive computers/equipements/etc unlike MLG. I'm pretty sure that overall MLG is investing and spending much more money than NASL. So I'm pretty sure that the NASL won't fail. Valid point. I was assuming that the NASL was intending to grow as a business to become like MLG one day, but if having little organizational costs is part of the strategy, it could turn out pretty well. Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 13:42 cha0 wrote:
If you're not going to justify yourself, source your comments, and basically just state your opinion like everyone else then how can you name your topic "Truths about the e-sports industry"? Because I possess the ignorance to assume that my opinions are better-educated than the opinions of an average TL user. Feel free to dispute it, I'm not saying it's impossible that I'm wrong with some points.
Then put this in blogs, because that's what this is. Great, you have an opinion backed by 0 credibility, until it's more this isn't relevant to the SC2 forum.
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Okay, fine, here's the deal:
+ Show Spoiler +KaveX isn't my actual nickname, it's only my SC2 moniker. I work in e-sports since many years, and if you're from Germany, there's a good chance you already heard of me. Of course, I would never write such a lame OP with my actual nickname - but as a result, I wouldn't have written anything at all. Please understand I don't want my name linked with this.
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On March 21 2011 13:50 Ponyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 13:22 CecilSunkure wrote:On March 21 2011 13:11 KaveX wrote:
So if you ask a Western pro-gamer if he'd rather live in a house with his team mates or have 400 $ more on his bank account each month, what will he choose? I'd rather live in a programing house. Well I guess it really depends on your income, if you have 400 dollars to throw away all and time to play starcraft2 all day, then follow your dreams!
If you live with your parents it's easy to say this, but guess how much I pay for rent/utilities? (hint: more than 400)
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yeah, even though i agree with you, you have to get some proper sourcing and quotes and stats in this thing if you want to make it a legit thread. otherwise, its just dribble.
moved to blogs.
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On March 21 2011 13:55 KaveX wrote:Okay, fine, here's the deal: + Show Spoiler +KaveX isn't my actual nickname, it's only my SC2 moniker. I work in e-sports since many years, and if you're from Germany, there's a good chance you already heard of me. Of course, I would never write such a lame OP with my actual nickname - but as a result, I wouldn't write anything at all.
OMG why didn't you tell me?! Bare minimum get a forum mod sworn to secrecy to come in here and back you...
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You say the typical TL user doesn't care about the invite process for NASL... Have you seen the amount of bitching or numerous threads about who to invite?
You say 300,000 dollars in prize money in a year is something MLG can't keep up with, yet MLG is giving out over 1,000,000 in prize money this year.
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The point of a pro gaming house is that you have discipline training. You have your schedule(maybe loosely but still a basic schedule), your coach, your teammates who will stand right behind you, watching you play, pointing out your in-game errors,v.v.. and such. Saying progaming house provide no advantage is like saying going to public school/university provides no advantage than home school.
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EPT
