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Netherlands45349 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:20 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:01 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Starcraft is a little bit like Football in some regards. The English invented the game, but they`re not the best at it. There`s a magical land called Brazil, and another called The Netherlands. One is filled with people of creative nature, the other one, filled with the best training system in the world. Both have a culture of Football.
Starcraft is an American game, but they`re not the best at it. There`s a magical land called South Korea, where being a nerd is not laughed at. Where, playing a game, it`s something that pretty much everyone does. No ones gonna judge you if you`re playing video games, they`re not gonna label your ass. They have organizations that supports Esport, players who dedicate themselves to the game. And it`s not the only game that they dedicate themselves. To play an RTS, it takes a certain set of skill set. The ability to Multi -task, to think fast, hand coordination, a brain that is constantly on the edge. No one ever thought that they might generally have those skill sets abit more than certain other places in the world? Might be also that people with those skill sets in the West, are doing other stuffs?
Koreans, they also invented most build you see in use. Hypocritical players use those builds than criticize the Korean for player their Korean type of game.
Another thing, why would i care for MorroW more than Fruitdealer. I`m Canadian. I`m not going to care for a guy just because he`s not Korean, it`s like if i liked any non-Brazilian player just because he`s not Brazilian. Wouldn`t make any sense to me. It`s like if you would like every non-Canadian players in Hockey just because they`re not Canadian. It`s the same thing here.
It`s absurd, irrational, xenophobic and just plain dumb. If MorroW was an amazing player, i would cheer for the guy, but the little unjustified foreigner Schism has to stop. It`s ridiculous.
Who criticies Koreans for playing well? I can't think of anyone. I'm not advocating bashing Koreans, I'm advocating supporting foreigners and Koreans, If we're ever going to have a pro scene anywhere near where we want it, it's not going to be done with this attitude. Why will pro players want to keep playing if people just keep shitting on them because MC or MVP might be better? I'm advocating supporting players and respecting them for what they do, which a lot of people aren't doing right now
Remember when MKP won from Jinro in the Ro4 GSL? alot of people were bashing MKP(who played a unique playstle, and in my opinion much better then Jinro did, who was too passive and unable to adept to MKP's MMM mobility play.)
Comments such as, lol he can only 1-amove were not uncommon.
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On March 17 2011 04:12 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:01 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 01:46 Arisen wrote:
I'd love to see all of the foreign community rally behind these players, rather than dismiss them because of where they train.
You keep on saying that like it's a small little thing. Like there's not gonna be a noticeable different between a player who games on his own in isolation in his basement, and a gamer who lives in a house with 12 other games and lives and breathes starcraft. One person is living a lifestyle and career, the other is just a time consuming hobby. It's not at all ridiculous to think that the guy who lives in a building dedicated to a game is gonna have a better chance at winning IdrA seems to be doing very well for himself without a team house, as does tyler, and white-ra. Like I said, I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the skill level of the two, but it's small enough where a top non-Korean can absolutely take games off of top Koreans, and even take the series off the player. As to the guy who asked if the playoffs were invitation only, well, they're not, they're based off results, and obviously results will figure heavily into NASL's choice of invites. I would only hope the people finishing top 5 MLG nationals, semi-finals and up in NA and European LANs would get equal opportunity at least, if not better chances than JoeBlow 635 who's only achievement was qualifying code A and bouncing early. Obviously there are very talented code A players who would absolutely be an asset to any starleague.
you are trivializing the importance of a gaming house to the development of a player by saying that a korean in such a situation does not have a quite sizable advantage over a good foreigner without the same support system. That is insane.
Your whole trantwas based on people saying that the koreans have a better shot of kicking ass. I don't know what to tell you if you can't figure out why any rational person would agree with those sentiments.
Also, the notion that I, as a non korean, should be supporting any foreigners... are there people really that stupid? Having affinity for a player because he's from your area or he shares the same ethnic blood as you is one thing (and still fairly lame if that's your main reason). Liking any foreigner just because he doesn't live in Korea is stupid.
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On March 17 2011 04:32 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:12 Arisen wrote:On March 17 2011 04:01 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 01:46 Arisen wrote:
I'd love to see all of the foreign community rally behind these players, rather than dismiss them because of where they train.
You keep on saying that like it's a small little thing. Like there's not gonna be a noticeable different between a player who games on his own in isolation in his basement, and a gamer who lives in a house with 12 other games and lives and breathes starcraft. One person is living a lifestyle and career, the other is just a time consuming hobby. It's not at all ridiculous to think that the guy who lives in a building dedicated to a game is gonna have a better chance at winning IdrA seems to be doing very well for himself without a team house, as does tyler, and white-ra. Like I said, I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the skill level of the two, but it's small enough where a top non-Korean can absolutely take games off of top Koreans, and even take the series off the player. As to the guy who asked if the playoffs were invitation only, well, they're not, they're based off results, and obviously results will figure heavily into NASL's choice of invites. I would only hope the people finishing top 5 MLG nationals, semi-finals and up in NA and European LANs would get equal opportunity at least, if not better chances than JoeBlow 635 who's only achievement was qualifying code A and bouncing early. Obviously there are very talented code A players who would absolutely be an asset to any starleague. you are trivializing the importance of a gaming house to the development of a player by saying that a korean in such a situation does not have a quite sizable advantage over a good foreigner without the same support system. That is insane. Your whole trantwas based on people saying that the koreans have a better shot of kicking ass. I don't know what to tell you if you can't figure out why any rational person would agree with those sentiments. Also, the notion that I, as a non korean, should be supporting any foreigners... are there people really that stupid? Having affinity for a player because he's from your area or he shares the same ethnic blood as you is one thing (and still fairly lame if that's your main reason). Liking any foreigner just because he doesn't live in Korea is stupid.
God people are cynical. IdrA is not a member of a gaming house and smashes a lot of people who live in gaming houses, I'm not saying that living in a gaming house isn't good for your skill level at all, and it would be stupid to say otherwise, but just because someone lives in a progamer house doesn't make him automatically better than someone who doesn't.
And why is it rediculous to support foreign players? Why are these pros going to put massive portions of their life into this game if they're just going to get shit on for not living in a progaming house? I'm not saying become a huge fanboy of every non Korean because they're non-Korean, I'm saying support them. Even if you're not a big fan, a simple comment on a page like
"you played well, you'll get em' next time"
is only helpful. Why discourage foreign players? Because you know what? Like Someone else said, it's not as socailly acceptable to be a pro gamer outside of Korea, this is a big commitment in peoples lives. You don't have to be a fan of their play or think they're the best in the world to just say to someone "Yo, I think it's cool that you're devoting your life to this game, hope you do well". IdrA is my favorite player, and if he faces MVP in TSL and MVP plays better, he deserves to win, but you should also support IdrA, just say something like "Yo, you came really close to beating the best Terran in the world, you're awesome" There's no incentive in it for foreign players if they're just getting shit on all the time. So, for the 100th time, I'm not saying don't support Korean's, I'm saying support foreigners.
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On March 17 2011 04:32 Hawk wrote:
Also, the notion that I, as a non korean, should be supporting any foreigners... are there people really that stupid? Having affinity for a player because he's from your area or he shares the same ethnic blood as you is one thing (and still fairly lame if that's your main reason). Liking any foreigner just because he doesn't live in Korea is stupid.
I cheer for foreigners because they are foreigners, but the reasoning is that I want to see foreigners reach the level of Korean prowess in the game, however I will still root for a Korean player over a foreigner if I like that Korean player more. So, I do agree, it's pretty dumb to be regional like this because while it is good to like eSports, you should also promote the best of the best. That can motivate people to be like them, instead of being more lax like the foreigner scene has been in the past.
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When foriengers legitimently beat koreans, then yeah
until then, korean owns white doods
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On March 17 2011 04:53 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:32 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 04:12 Arisen wrote:On March 17 2011 04:01 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 01:46 Arisen wrote:
I'd love to see all of the foreign community rally behind these players, rather than dismiss them because of where they train.
You keep on saying that like it's a small little thing. Like there's not gonna be a noticeable different between a player who games on his own in isolation in his basement, and a gamer who lives in a house with 12 other games and lives and breathes starcraft. One person is living a lifestyle and career, the other is just a time consuming hobby. It's not at all ridiculous to think that the guy who lives in a building dedicated to a game is gonna have a better chance at winning IdrA seems to be doing very well for himself without a team house, as does tyler, and white-ra. Like I said, I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the skill level of the two, but it's small enough where a top non-Korean can absolutely take games off of top Koreans, and even take the series off the player. As to the guy who asked if the playoffs were invitation only, well, they're not, they're based off results, and obviously results will figure heavily into NASL's choice of invites. I would only hope the people finishing top 5 MLG nationals, semi-finals and up in NA and European LANs would get equal opportunity at least, if not better chances than JoeBlow 635 who's only achievement was qualifying code A and bouncing early. Obviously there are very talented code A players who would absolutely be an asset to any starleague. you are trivializing the importance of a gaming house to the development of a player by saying that a korean in such a situation does not have a quite sizable advantage over a good foreigner without the same support system. That is insane. Your whole trantwas based on people saying that the koreans have a better shot of kicking ass. I don't know what to tell you if you can't figure out why any rational person would agree with those sentiments. Also, the notion that I, as a non korean, should be supporting any foreigners... are there people really that stupid? Having affinity for a player because he's from your area or he shares the same ethnic blood as you is one thing (and still fairly lame if that's your main reason). Liking any foreigner just because he doesn't live in Korea is stupid. just because someone lives in a progamer house doesn't make him automatically better than someone who doesn't.
do you not understand what better shot or better chance means or something??
your entire argument revolves around getting butthurt because people inherently think that any random korean pro vs any random foreigner, the korean has a better chance of winning. You are in disagreement with this statement, saying that the place in which a person trains has very little say in making a person a better player. I am saying that is incredibly wrong.
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On March 17 2011 04:20 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:01 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Starcraft is a little bit like Football in some regards. The English invented the game, but they`re not the best at it. There`s a magical land called Brazil, and another called The Netherlands. One is filled with people of creative nature, the other one, filled with the best training system in the world. Both have a culture of Football.
Starcraft is an American game, but they`re not the best at it. There`s a magical land called South Korea, where being a nerd is not laughed at. Where, playing a game, it`s something that pretty much everyone does. No ones gonna judge you if you`re playing video games, they`re not gonna label your ass. They have organizations that supports Esport, players who dedicate themselves to the game. And it`s not the only game that they dedicate themselves. To play an RTS, it takes a certain set of skill set. The ability to Multi -task, to think fast, hand coordination, a brain that is constantly on the edge. No one ever thought that they might generally have those skill sets abit more than certain other places in the world? Might be also that people with those skill sets in the West, are doing other stuffs?
Koreans, they also invented most build you see in use. Hypocritical players use those builds than criticize the Korean for player their Korean type of game.
Another thing, why would i care for MorroW more than Fruitdealer. I`m Canadian. I`m not going to care for a guy just because he`s not Korean, it`s like if i liked any non-Brazilian player just because he`s not Brazilian. Wouldn`t make any sense to me. It`s like if you would like every non-Canadian players in Hockey just because they`re not Canadian. It`s the same thing here.
It`s absurd, irrational, xenophobic and just plain dumb. If MorroW was an amazing player, i would cheer for the guy, but the little unjustified foreigner Schism has to stop. It`s ridiculous.
Who criticies Koreans for playing well? I can't think of anyone. I'm not advocating bashing Koreans, I'm advocating supporting foreigners and Koreans, If we're ever going to have a pro scene anywhere near where we want it, it's not going to be done with this attitude. Why will pro players want to keep playing if people just keep shitting on them because MC or MVP might be better? I'm advocating supporting players and respecting them for what they do, which a lot of people aren't doing right now
I`m advocating supporting players based on his skills, not the color of his skin, or the flag that waves under him. I`m totally indifferent to the nationality of a player, and supporting players just because they`re not Korean is ridiculous. Though, if one supports Jinro, because he`s actually good and that one like his personality, that great. But if you support a foreign player on the sole fact that he`s not Korean, that`s when it becomes ridiculous.
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I made an edit to the OP which will hopefully clear up the misunderstandings in this thread. Please note, I'm not saying shit on Koreans, I'm saying support foreigners. (which means being supportive of them , not being supportive of their opponents). Thanks.
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On March 17 2011 05:09 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:53 Arisen wrote:On March 17 2011 04:32 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 04:12 Arisen wrote:On March 17 2011 04:01 Hawk wrote:On March 17 2011 01:46 Arisen wrote:
I'd love to see all of the foreign community rally behind these players, rather than dismiss them because of where they train.
You keep on saying that like it's a small little thing. Like there's not gonna be a noticeable different between a player who games on his own in isolation in his basement, and a gamer who lives in a house with 12 other games and lives and breathes starcraft. One person is living a lifestyle and career, the other is just a time consuming hobby. It's not at all ridiculous to think that the guy who lives in a building dedicated to a game is gonna have a better chance at winning IdrA seems to be doing very well for himself without a team house, as does tyler, and white-ra. Like I said, I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the skill level of the two, but it's small enough where a top non-Korean can absolutely take games off of top Koreans, and even take the series off the player. As to the guy who asked if the playoffs were invitation only, well, they're not, they're based off results, and obviously results will figure heavily into NASL's choice of invites. I would only hope the people finishing top 5 MLG nationals, semi-finals and up in NA and European LANs would get equal opportunity at least, if not better chances than JoeBlow 635 who's only achievement was qualifying code A and bouncing early. Obviously there are very talented code A players who would absolutely be an asset to any starleague. you are trivializing the importance of a gaming house to the development of a player by saying that a korean in such a situation does not have a quite sizable advantage over a good foreigner without the same support system. That is insane. Your whole trantwas based on people saying that the koreans have a better shot of kicking ass. I don't know what to tell you if you can't figure out why any rational person would agree with those sentiments. Also, the notion that I, as a non korean, should be supporting any foreigners... are there people really that stupid? Having affinity for a player because he's from your area or he shares the same ethnic blood as you is one thing (and still fairly lame if that's your main reason). Liking any foreigner just because he doesn't live in Korea is stupid. just because someone lives in a progamer house doesn't make him automatically better than someone who doesn't. do you not understand what better shot or better chance means or something?? your entire argument revolves around getting butthurt because people inherently think that any random korean pro vs any random foreigner, the korean has a better chance of winning. You are in disagreement with this statement, saying that the place in which a person trains has very little say in making a person a better player. I am saying that is incredibly wrong.
Your understanding of what I'm trying to convey here is skewed. I'm not saying that a Korean who practices 12 hours a day doesn't have a better shot at winning than X player who plays 4 hours a day, once again, that would be stupid to state. What I'm saying is, don't discount all foreigners and put all Korean's on A pedastal. There are several people who are advocating just not inviting anyone who isn't a pro player in Korea to the NASL, which obviously they're not going to do, but the fact that that sentiment is out there is what I'm addressing. Base players off their play, not that where they're from, or how much they practice. Mondragon was devestatingly good and hardly ever practiced a large amount. Should his spot have been given to some D- Zerg Jobber because he practiced 12 hours a day? I wouldn't think so. Yes, the more deserving player should get priority for spots in large tournements, and if they all so happen to be Korean, I'm 100% OK with that, but the notion that every Korean code A is better than every foreigner is ridiculous purely from looking at the replays/VODs
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Sorry, double post 
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the bottom line is that one is a pro and one isn't. You can talk about skill all you want, unless you are in korea and making a living off of SC2, you really arent exactly a pro. The pedastal is there for a reason
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On March 17 2011 06:06 Hawk wrote:
the bottom line is that one is a pro and one isn't. You can talk about skill all you want, unless you are in korea and making a living off of SC2, you really arent exactly a pro. The pedastal is there for a reason
Yeah, there are so many definitions of pro being thrown around. And that leads to stupid arguments.
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EPT
