EPTthat said, it can be hard to progress in leagues since cheesing is so effective and you are always up against strats that are very low difficulty to execute but high reward. If you can learn to beat whatever you most commonly lose to that would be a good start. But keep in mind that you have to play heaps of games to really get anywhere.
Some People Inherently Bad at Starcraft 2? - Page 2
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pookychoo
New Zealand96 Posts
that said, it can be hard to progress in leagues since cheesing is so effective and you are always up against strats that are very low difficulty to execute but high reward. If you can learn to beat whatever you most commonly lose to that would be a good start. But keep in mind that you have to play heaps of games to really get anywhere. | ||
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
I'm also pretty sure that most gamers were terrible at the games they played when they first started out, but forgot about it because they were 6 years old when they started. | ||
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
That said, its relatively easy to plateau. In fact its very common and happens to pros even. It sounds like you just haven't correctly identified the *real* reason that you are not improving. There are exceptions though: if you have little background in gaming and strategy then learning to be good at a game like SC is obviously more difficult. I wouldn't expect my mother to get into masters within 200 games. She just lacks basic control and multitasking abilities that require years of development. That said, if you do have a gaming/strategy background and are proficient at other games, control, multitasking, etc. Then I see no reason for you to plateau at diamond. You should probably grab an hour or two of coaching - that will almost certainly reveal the root of your problems... And once you are actively resolving those issues, your skill will improve by leaps and bounds | ||
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chocopan
Japan986 Posts
Of course it's true that some people have natural talent, and some people will be able to progress much faster than some others. I don't believe that anyone can play at pro level "if they just practice enough", any more than I will ever be a star Olympic skater no matter how many hours I put in. But a reasonable level of competence is well within the scope of any normal human being with a reasonable amount of time to practice and solid motivation. Re the whole "Why am I still in [insert league here]", really, ignore that stuff. Work on improving your game. If you drop 10 ranks or even a league, but you lost all those games because you were working your posterior off getting your macro game in order and forcing yourself to use hotkeys - congratulations, you have actually improved. Ranks and ladder are great but don't let them stop you from playing. | ||
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PetitCrabe
Canada410 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:17 Treetop wrote: [...] I step into a game with a AI opponent, my play is pretty smooth. I hit my opening timings just as I need to and get myself off on a good foot for the game. When I hit the ladder, or even play a friend, that opening falters, the build collapses, tunnel vision sets in and I miss Overlords left and right. [...] There is something primal taking control of you as if you were in a fight to the death with a leopard or something, despite it only being a game. You could try seeing this as something positive: this is a chance to learn more about your mind and body without actually being in dangerous situations. Other people take up free-climbing, bungee jumping or skydiving and have fun. I bet you can derive fun out of your situation, if you approach this as some kind of hobby science research project, trying to find out what exactly your brain is making you do while you are in a game. At least it was that way for me, playing FPS competitively. Years ago, I played in a handful Quake3 1v1 LAN tournaments and actually won first place at two 500 man LANs (because the really good players were all not present). In the matches against players where I had to give it my best to win, I never managed to stay cool and implement what I practiced. Timing the items went out the window, because I could not calculate that while being nervous, so I reverted back to simply deciding with my gut when to switch from defensive play to recklessly rushing at them and aiming them to death. + Show Spoiler + My theory about the game and what I practiced for was this: The correct approach for winning would have been to try to have the exact timings for the respawn of several items on the map, having an estimate about the health of the enemy and his position on the map. Then calculate what his best route through the map would be and then deny it to make him settle for lesser items and lower his chances for winning fights. Fights should be approached like poker, weighing the hit chance with various weapons to what the incoming damage would likely be plus your health and the enemy health. This was only possible for me in practice games, but never in tournament matches. In tournaments every decision was made 100 % by gut feeling. My practice still helped me a lot. I guess the "gut feeling" was actually programmed through practice to be pretty near to what would actually be the best decisions. It was also possible to imagine myself in an important match while practicing, to get myself to be nervous despite it being an unimportant game. When I tried looking for it, I noticed fun stuff about myself. For example, I was holding my breath while maneuvering in fights, which does not make sense because you are not actually jumping around with your real body and breathing does not interfere with moving the mouse and pressing keys. After I noticed that, I could change it by concentrating on my breathing while in practice games. What was also an interesting experience was playing clanwars with your team at set dates. This meant you could not choose to not play when you noticed you had a day where you are playing bad, your aim is off etc. The same was the case with LAN tournaments: having a bad day on that weekend felt pretty depressing. This prompted fun research into causes and remedies. | ||
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Xyik
Canada728 Posts
Playing on ladder = stress and analyzing replays = tiresome work, play for fun, try new strategies out with someone you can laugh with but still stay competitive with. Find a rival who always tries to be better than you and you will find even more motivation to improve. Finding someone to look up to is also good as you will try to mimic his/her play and learn faster than trying to develop your own style. It doesn't have to be a pro. You need to practice against people of all skill levels at a consistent rate to understand the game. Practice against 1 match-up consistently with someone who is at a much higher level that can point out what you are doing wrong and then put those improvements to the test against someone who is at a similar level to you or lower. It's true that some people learn faster than others, some people may take 100 games to reach diamond whereas others may take as much as 1000. But you can most definitely always improve if you play enough and practice the right way. Have fun with it. | ||
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By.Fantasy
Thailand123 Posts
Same to SC2 you got play. Learn from your mistakes and start playing with less mistake. Some people tend to ignore there mistakes and say how good they play. I have a friend who thinks he plays so good but I barely do anything to beat him I try to tell him why you do this why you build this but he keeps ignoring me and thats how you become "inherently bad''. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
However, for those that does not aspire to these pro-levels and just want to reach Diamond/Master, I would say anyone can do it if they have the proper dedication. It would also immensely help if these people have a good coach just to point them in the correct direction. | ||
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Treetop
United States140 Posts
Reliable practice partners and/or mentors are a common theme in the responses here and I'd love to have them. However, I've used the practice partner thread, chatted with people I had particularly good games with on ladder afterwards and all that, but we play a few games and they kind of disappear. I tried joining a clan even to get regular practice, but all it ended up being was 15 people in one party watching people 1v1 one at a time. It didn't help me. If I did have someone of higher skill to play with and yell in my ear on Skype when I'm messing up, that would be great. Or having someone I can count on day to day to play a bunch of games with me that would also be great. Just having a hard time finding those things... As for coaching, I payed for three hours with two different professional coaches. One was pretty helpful and the other just told me to do 5 things all at once and my scatter brain couldn't handle all that information at once. So, I know a mentor would really help as long as he can take it at my pace. Any one offering? Heh. Treetop.694 if you want! No pressure if not. Zerg player by the way. Thanks again for all the helpful advice. I really appreciate it. | ||
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Zidane
United States1692 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Now earlier in the blog you mentioned that you try to, and in the AI games you do it reasonable enough. What this means is one of two things. Either you get nervous as hell as everything goes to shit, or you get in a real game situation and place way more emphasis on less important things because you're worried about not dying. If you can macro in practice games but can't in real games it means your focus is changing in real games to things it should not be one. Its deeply ingrained for you so you need to do drills to break it most likely. In either event, you need to break this cycle. Play your regular 1v1's with only one thing in mind. Macro. If you can't even get your barracks down because you'll miss scv's to do it, thats fine. Same thing, if you can't scout for some cheese, or micro against a cheese because you'll miss a production round or depot don't worry about it. Your mindset of practice vs play is completely off, you really need to drill yourself out of it. Yes, there are people that are just not talented at video games. That bar is certainly nowhere near gold though. Maybe somewhere in diamond, but probably masters. | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
Try listening to music that relaxes you while you play, at a reasonable volume of course. Also if you get frustrated take a small break then play some more. edit, feel free to hit me up for practice games Ulfsark.345 | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On March 11 2011 10:10 awu25 wrote: I have a friend who's really book smart and studies a lot but would usually do poorly on any pop quizzes and such. He can be decent at the game if he practices, but it's clear that he has no on-the-fly decision making. This is something that people cannot develop. He'll go into a game with a certain plan and try to execute that plan without taking any risks or deviating from it. Sure if he got training from the best players in the world he would get better, but he would still be missing that critical decision making element. people can easily develop on-the-fly decision making once you guide them towards it and if they practice it. in fighting games most people develop decision making through tons and tons of experience and practice. it might not be obvious in the beginning and they might feel like there's a plateau, but by grinding through it and having people point out when these situations happen, they learn to see through it. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On March 11 2011 16:51 Bosu wrote: I have some RL friends that I am pretty confident could never hit masters. I think anyone can. Obviously if everyone did the scene would be a lot different BUT I do think its possible. Learning to execute in-game a solid/optimal plan will take you to the highest levels of master imo. Most people who think they play really tight in diamond or whatever are actually making tons of mistakes and bad reads/decisions all through out the game and nothing needed to fix it comes down to physical ability or "Speed" in-game, it all just comes down to better use of your time and knowing when and where to do things that are trivial to even low level players. | ||
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tirentu
Canada1257 Posts
There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
On March 11 2011 17:18 tirentu wrote: I think I'm gonna get crap for this... There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game. True, but dumb people don't really practice or work hard at anything, so it's hard to tell the difference here. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On March 11 2011 17:18 tirentu wrote: I think I'm gonna get crap for this... There are a plurality of people who are not smart enough to be good at competitive games, including SC/SC2. It's not a matter of lack of practice or devotion. They just do not possess the specific mental faculties needed to succeed at a fast-paced strategy game. It takes minimal intelligence to make workers, follow a tight build, and macro, and make extremely basic responses to scouting intel. These things alone get you into masters. You said good, so I don't know specifically what threshold of good you mean, but I think its is an exceptionally small percentage of the population that is incapable of making masters (obviously if everyone wanted to make masters and worked correctly for it that wouldn't be true. but that doesn't happen anyway). | ||
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