• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:31
CEST 15:31
KST 22:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."1Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.3Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)12BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 28314 users

Are we fans, or lampreys? [GSL March Spoilers]

Blogs > Turgid
Post a Reply
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 01 2011 21:43 GMT
#1
This is going to be a pretty whiny and possibly even not constructive post, which is why it's a blog and not in the thread devoted to a related topic in the SC2 general forum. That thread is located here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197516

The past few weeks have had a lot of upsets for SC2. The only thing I'm "upset" about, though, is people's attitudes toward the players. I feel that there's a pretty dramatic deficit of critical thought being put into people's fandom of one player or another.

I feel that, in many cases, people will latch on to a player for one reason or another. Sometimes this is because the player played an extremely good game. Sometimes this is because they did a crazy strategy. Sometimes it's because they're not Korean. Sometimes it's even because they won a tournament at some point.

But my problem is that people don't seem to want to make room for other people. Ret versus Jjob happened, and the big story of the night was either that Ret lost or that TvZ is ridic. What we didn't see is a lot of fans for Jjob springing up. Why? He's possibly the best player on SlayerS. He played extremely well. So did Ganzi in his series against Haypro, although luckily Ganzi has gotten some attention due to Huk hyping him up. We've rarely seen the kind of multitasking that we saw out of those players.

Zenio vs Byun? Amazing game. That was recognized. Two amazing players. That wasn't, not nearly as much. Zenio and Byun have both been out there playing genuinely good and interesting Starcraft for a little while now(Byun less so, since we only saw his Terran switch in January), and I don't feel they've been recognized for being as good as they are. Zenio is technically one of the most consistent players in GSL. Byun played great games in Code A last season, definitely one of the few genuinely impressive players in that tournament.

We're giving a lot of attention to SanZenith because people thought he was terrible. Personally, while I was surprised by his great performance, I felt that he did receive an unfair amount of shit since that GSL2 ro32 game where he choked pretty hard. Say what you want, go back and watch those games; those were obviously not mistakes a GSL participant makes on a regular basis, even in season 2. Something was up. That's neither here nor there, however; while San is clearly a worthy player, I want to emphasize that he's not the only previously unrecognized one with some serious skills in this tournament.

And a word on watching foreigners in GSL: There's nothing wrong with rooting for dudes from your country, or even your hemisphere. Even though I thought Moonglade, Ret, and Haypro would lose(no disrespect, they lost to tough players), I was cheering for them. But if you only want to see foreigners play, I honestly don't feel that GSL is for you. This is not and has never been a tournament for watching white dudes tear it up. Idra has had moderate success. Jinro actually has torn it up, which makes GSL a tournament for watching a white dude tear it up. I think many of these viewers are better suited for the many foreign tournaments featuring their favorite players, such as GCPL.

On foreign tournaments in general, I'm not so sure those are looked at fairly, either, although possibly I think that people are more level-headed than they are about GSL.

I don't see attention for players such as Sase, Cloud, or NightEnd. I rarely see attention for Nerchio or Syz. Why not? These are clearly excellent players, and in my mind, they are all underrated.

From my perspective, SC2 fans need to see their scene with more open and more critical minds.

*****
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
March 01 2011 21:53 GMT
#2
it's the same thing as someone's favorite sports team losing
all the watcher cares about is how crappy their team played, how the ref was bad, or how the other team cheated

it's never about how the other team played well or was better
italiangymnast
Profile Joined December 2009
United States246 Posts
March 01 2011 22:48 GMT
#3
i agree

except i would say that idra tore it up! He made RO32 / RO16 / RO8 in 3 GSLs!

that is no small feat!
SCII ID: Sanctuary LoL ID: erzin
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
March 01 2011 23:23 GMT
#4
People root for the white dudes in the GSL more passionately than in the GCPL is because the GSL is considered the highest level of competition. Korean soccer fans cheer for Park Ji Sung at Manchester United because they want to show that Asian players do indeed have some game in soccer. Sure, they could just watch the K-League stars tear it up at home if they wanted to watch Korean stars, but it isn't the same as one of your own doing well in what is regarded as the highest level of competition in the world.
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 23:33:46
March 01 2011 23:30 GMT
#5
On March 02 2011 07:48 italiangymnast wrote:
i agree

except i would say that idra tore it up! He made RO32 / RO16 / RO8 in 3 GSLs!

that is no small feat!


Surely. I do have a lot of respect for Idra, I just think that the GSL hasn't exactly been a bastion of foreigner dominance and I am befuddled when people are suddenly thinking of this GSL as a disappointment because foreigners lost.

On March 02 2011 08:23 Klogon wrote:
People root for the white dudes in the GSL more passionately than in the GCPL is because the GSL is considered the highest level of competition. Korean soccer fans cheer for Park Ji Sung at Manchester United because they want to show that Asian players do indeed have some game in soccer. Sure, they could just watch the K-League stars tear it up at home if they wanted to watch Korean stars, but it isn't the same as one of your own doing well in what is regarded as the highest level of competition in the world.

But, especially as players ourselves, isn't it a little silly to suddenly not watch the highest level of competition in the world just because a white guy isn't playing? I've seen a lot of posts talking about not watching much of the rest of it because now it's just not worth it. The fact is that there are a lot of people who only watch GSL for Jinro, and only watch Jinro for GSL - there's something off about that, I think.

edit: Hell yeah 5 star blog *fist pump*
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
March 01 2011 23:35 GMT
#6
I agree and I think that you'll find that many people will continue to watch GSL. Those who say they will stop are much fewer than you'd probably expect.
italiangymnast
Profile Joined December 2009
United States246 Posts
March 01 2011 23:36 GMT
#7
well with the NASL comin up, we will all have plenty to watch in terms of white guys AND world class gaming.
SCII ID: Sanctuary LoL ID: erzin
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 01 2011 23:37 GMT
#8
I sure hope so. I feel that the US and EU scenes are dramatically behind KR right now, although not to the same degree as each other, and not to the same degree as in BW. It's very noticeable, though, and I'm hoping that the existence of all these really big leagues and more to come will drive the non-Korean servers to new heights.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
italiangymnast
Profile Joined December 2009
United States246 Posts
March 02 2011 00:07 GMT
#9
idk if the server in general will increase - but the top levels of play definatly will!
SCII ID: Sanctuary LoL ID: erzin
ranjutan
Profile Joined November 2010
United States636 Posts
March 02 2011 00:16 GMT
#10
Excellent play, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not too worried about people stopping following GSL. Of course it's always just a niche group, but true fans of any sport will usually watch the highest quality of games, whoever is playing. (just look at the foreign fanbase for BW)
Anyway hopefully there'll be no need to worry about that because Jinro will win ^^
http://i53.tinypic.com/1r3j0p.gif
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV June Playoffs
MaxPax vs SolarLIVE!
MaNa vs TBD
Reynor vs Creator
Gerald vs Spirit
WardiTV1368
TKL 275
Rex161
IndyStarCraft 124
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #135
CranKy Ducklings69
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 275
mouzHeroMarine 252
Rex 161
IndyStarCraft 133
Livibee 117
BRAT_OK 93
ProTech87
Dewaltoss 41
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46345
Calm 7585
Rain 3666
Horang2 2257
Bisu 1333
Hyuk 778
Jaedong 767
GuemChi 620
Sharp 522
Zeus 433
[ Show more ]
Mini 432
BeSt 301
Light 260
Nal_rA 236
Soulkey 159
Last 131
Mind 87
ToSsGirL 35
scan(afreeca) 22
sSak 18
Terrorterran 14
HiyA 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Icarus 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
SilentControl 9
Noble 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5549
qojqva1495
XcaliburYe297
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
flusha496
allub358
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor279
Other Games
singsing2140
B2W.Neo936
C9.Mang0616
DeMusliM513
Lowko352
Fuzer 212
XaKoH 99
Beastyqt56
Trikslyr32
ArmadaUGS28
FunKaTv 20
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream12454
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5210
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 21
• Adnapsc2 9
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2584
• WagamamaTV356
League of Legends
• Nemesis6546
• Stunt524
Upcoming Events
Cheesadelphia
1h 30m
CSO Cup
3h 30m
BSL: ProLeague
4h 30m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
18h 30m
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 30m
WardiTV Qualifier
1d 2h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Wardi Open
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.