EPTMacro Mechanics Alert and Skill Gap - Page 2
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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XCetron
5226 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Overall, bad idea by blizzard. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On February 27 2011 16:31 avilo wrote: I hope to god this thing doesn't beep every time I get 50 nrg on OCS. Because I use a lot of scans like other good Terrans...we don't want it to beep every friggin time it hits 50, especially late when if we have 5+ ocs lol. Overall, bad idea by blizzard. It doesn't beep when you hit 50 energy, or ever. It's one of the many visual indicators that people pretty much tune out. It makes the game easier, but if you have the attention span to watch those indicators and pick out which ones aren't "Your forces are under attack!" or "Extractor finished" or whatever I think you could easily have been injecting on time anyway. I'm not sure that this does affect gameplay. I think it's being added for consistency and maybe helping people with the early game, which I know personally is the only time I ever even think about those indicators. But as my brand new posting icon indicates, I may not be the brightest one around... | ||
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shindigs
United States4795 Posts
In BW, since all the units had bad pathfinding and didn't autosurround, seeing two armies clash and seeing the pros control the units to make the units take a beautiful position was something that would be jaw dropping. By adding more of these types of crutches, you can watch a game and just say "yeah I could do that if I sat in front of my computer all day and just played SC2 if I had these crutches to help me". Takes a lot of excitement out of the game. I even feel this way about the game now as it is. The GSL does give us amazing games, but not as much as the BW proleague games. | ||
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vlaric
United States412 Posts
regarding the direction blizzard is taking, i think most of the bw community agrees that it's going the wrong way. however, because the majority of the player base continually clamours for greater ease and 'strategic depth' as opposed to 'mindless' mechanics, i believe it's all but inevitable that sc2 will continue to grow more and more distant from its predecessor as time goes on. we're in the minority. hardcore, casual-hardcore, nostalgic- whatever you want to call it- the numbers of the old bw community (imo) are only shrinking in comparison to the growing number of gamers getting involved with sc2 and newer games. | ||
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Lumire
United States607 Posts
Its fine if they oversimplify it if they want nothing more then a game, but there throwing money at it left and right and trying to kill an already established ESPORT in the process, while taking sc2 mechanics more towards being just another DOWII. Its fine if the game is easier if you just want to play to have fun once in a while, if you want a competitive scene making a game too easy is one way of guaranteeing that wont happen. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On February 27 2011 16:59 shindigs wrote: Whether or not it makes the game easier to play for you, it makes spectating that much less exciting. In BW, since all the units had bad pathfinding and didn't autosurround, seeing two armies clash and seeing the pros control the units to make the units take a beautiful position was something that would be jaw dropping. By adding more of these types of crutches, you can watch a game and just say "yeah I could do that if I sat in front of my computer all day and just played SC2 if I had these crutches to help me". Takes a lot of excitement out of the game. I even feel this way about the game now as it is. The GSL does give us amazing games, but not as much as the BW proleague games. pretty much what i think. GSL games are really just meh, i'd like to give the time for sc2 to develop but it really isn't that exciting to watch. I used to watch most GSL games now I just watch them sometimes. Same thing with PL games, but they're much more exciting, I saw Bisu vs Kal (SKT vs STX) the other day, insane battles that game because of the positioning. I actually think one reason SC2 battles are more dull because the units clump up a lot easier (harder to see the action and less of it on the screen) even though it makes the unit control much easier. yeah, it makes the game easier to play but thats one reason why theres a huge skill gap in sc1, but i wouldnt have seen a full screen battle with masses of zealots and dragoons clashing and storms and incredible reaver shots. | ||
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Jimmy Raynor
902 Posts
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
Just make the game harder. There should be more ways people can showcase their skill. (like epic reaver micro and mine dragging and all sorts of things in BW). They made poor decisions to limit people being killed when they don't have detection in my opinion (They made DTs pretty much obsolete, and Z can no longer contain well). | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On February 27 2011 21:11 Jimmy Raynor wrote: So what? Making the mechanics easier is better for the sc2 scene. If they were as hard as bw then wouldn't the game be dominated by Koreans again? Why shouldn't the better strategy be rewarded(in a strategy game) instead of the better mechanics? because everybody wants to play a game that you can beat anybody at and esports dont matter because being korean automatically makes you better at bw because sc2 definitely has more advanced strategy than bw and rock paper scissors is fun to watch | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
Its a small message on the side of your screen like when your building completes. THATS IT. NO SOUND, NO BEEP, NO BLARING MESSAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN. So unless you tell me you regularly keep track of the side of the screen with all the little messages, this won't affect you at all. And if you did keep track of that stuff, then I highly doubt missing larva injects is something oyu're gonna be worried about. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
On February 27 2011 21:45 ch33psh33p wrote: Guys, play the fucking PTR before whining about this stuff. Its a small message on the side of your screen like when your building completes. THATS IT. NO SOUND, NO BEEP, NO BLARING MESSAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN. So unless you tell me you regularly keep track of the side of the screen with all the little messages, this won't affect you at all. And if you did keep track of that stuff, then I highly doubt missing larva injects is something oyu're gonna be worried about. Exactly... as a Protoss this won't effect me at all... We already had an indicator for when Warpgates could be used... and how many. lol | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On February 27 2011 21:45 ch33psh33p wrote: Guys, play the fucking PTR before whining about this stuff. Its a small message on the side of your screen like when your building completes. THATS IT. NO SOUND, NO BEEP, NO BLARING MESSAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN. So unless you tell me you regularly keep track of the side of the screen with all the little messages, this won't affect you at all. And if you did keep track of that stuff, then I highly doubt missing larva injects is something oyu're gonna be worried about. Nevertheless, keeping track of something that on the side of your screen is a lot easier than keeping track of your larva timings. The game was made easier with that change. | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
On February 27 2011 11:11 MOOG wrote: Let me repeat to you a part of your own blog-the only reason macro mechanics are in the game is that it compensates for the addition of automine and mbs. This is the most faulty part of your reasoning. Its 2010 now. Blizzard should NOT compensate for removing automine and MBS. you put in automine and MBS by default. Its 2010 now, not 1998. Blizzard never thought "we removed automine and mbs and now we have to compensate for that by making the game harder in other areas." The game is more frustrating without automine and mbs, not just harder. The macro mechanic notification may make things a little easier for players, but the inclusion of larger maps to the map pool will make the game more difficult. Larger maps extend the length of the game and also tax pro skills like multitasking. The difficulty imposed by larger maps far outstrips the effect of a small addition like macro notifications. This change isn't a very big deal. There already was a macro mechanic notification-the plop of the larvae, the disappearing of the chrono slinky, and the mechanical breakdown of the mule. These were all very loud, but you can really only notice them when your camera was near the location of the event. Now, they can be "heard" globally. wait, what's the sound for chrono boost? i didn't know there was a sound.... | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On February 28 2011 02:39 etheovermind wrote: Nevertheless, keeping track of something that on the side of your screen is a lot easier than keeping track of your larva timings. The game was made easier with that change. Again, as a Protoss player, it isn't easier for me to keep track of the warpgate count by moving my eyes away from the micro battles or the minimap than it is to just develop a rhythm of when my warpgates are ready(as you naturally will if you play a lot). I can't imagine this would somehow be different for zerg or terran or for my chronoboost. | ||
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On February 27 2011 21:11 Jimmy Raynor wrote: So what? Making the mechanics easier is better for the sc2 scene. If they were as hard as bw then wouldn't the game be dominated by Koreans again? Why shouldn't the better strategy be rewarded(in a strategy game) instead of the better mechanics? The gap between Koreans and foreigners is actually bigger in SC2 than in SC1, I'm going to write a longer post on this eventually but there are reps of Idra manhandling players like Squirtle and MKP in BW, players that are above him in SC2, White-Ra could beat Code S players as well like MKP and Boxer, but he got destroyed by the lowest of the code A players at IEM. Foreigner "success" in SC2 is an illusion, if SC2 didn't happen and all the A-teamers besides MVP quit gaming I'm sure we'd see a similar level of foreigner success. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On March 12 2011 11:48 jalstar wrote: The gap between Koreans and foreigners is actually bigger in SC2 than in SC1, I'm going to write a longer post on this eventually but there are reps of Idra manhandling players like Squirtle and MKP in BW, players that are above him in SC2, White-Ra could beat Code S players as well like MKP and Boxer, but he got destroyed by the lowest of the code A players at IEM. Foreigner "success" in SC2 is an illusion, if SC2 didn't happen and all the A-teamers besides MVP quit gaming I'm sure we'd see a similar level of foreigner success. Uhhhh you are going to need a damn persuasive argument there. I am going to outright say you are wrong but I'll be eagerly awaiting that writeup edit: this video popped into my head. Some top foreign players represent the TL community against a series of koreans representing Ygosu (b-team players and ex-pros). | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
On March 12 2011 11:48 jalstar wrote: The gap between Koreans and foreigners is actually bigger in SC2 than in SC1, I'm going to write a longer post on this eventually but there are reps of Idra manhandling players like Squirtle and MKP in BW, players that are above him in SC2, White-Ra could beat Code S players as well like MKP and Boxer, but he got destroyed by the lowest of the code A players at IEM. Foreigner "success" in SC2 is an illusion, if SC2 didn't happen and all the A-teamers besides MVP quit gaming I'm sure we'd see a similar level of foreigner success. lol, even as a huge bw pro nuthugger myself this is totally wrong. Foreigners are much more successful at sc2 because of how much easier sc2 is. Top level players make way fewer and way less severe macro mistakes, there is barely any need to micro units in huge battles and there is huge luck factor in sc2. There are tons of random bad casual masters players (like myself) who can take games off professionals because of this and I absolutely hate it. In BW, I was C- and literally had a 0% win vs my friend who was B (we've played like 30 games +). In SC2, I'd be extremely surprised if I couldnt take one game off idra if we played 20 times. | ||
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