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So, in the past couple of weeks I had been less and less motivated to play BW. It was not that I didn't feel like my play was improving, it was actually. It was just the massive amount of BM and turtle strategies that brought me down.
It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons. The carriers were so late that even though I won easily, the games were at least 30 minutes long. ZvZ is just weird, and I would lose every game I played. That's okay though, it was not like I was dying to anything but my own lack of skill. ZvT was, and still is, the worst. I had a hard time figuring out the push timings and when to tech to defilers. Even worse was mech.
Mech was just crushing to play against. I had no idea how to kill that friggin' death ball going towards my base. Every game would be me taking 3-5 bases well saturated then rolling over and dying.
Until I found this little gem: the Day[9] podcasts of old. It had a specific podcast just about playing against mech. I put it on and listens it through, and what do you know? My first game after listening to good ol' Sean Plott is against a terran. Who takes a fast gas!
The following game was awesome. Simply awesome. We were about evenly matched in skill, but my macro was slightly better than his, to make up for my lackluster unit control (this is D level mind you). I killed his first push and then choked him by killing expos until he was back at his mined-out natural.
He then leaves with no gg. In conclusion: BW is still the best game in the world. Sometimes you just need to NOT get crushed in every game you play.
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United States10328 Posts
ah, sweet victory. post a rep 
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United States17042 Posts
liquipedia did a whole roundtable on this a long long long time ago, but it would still be useful if you're having trouble against it ^^ GoODluck laddering!
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Ah, a simple victory will always cheer you up especially after losing to Koreans 10 games in a row. Good old days on Iccup.
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10387 Posts
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[
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Playing vs mech was the only time when my ZvT was actually successful in BW! It requires a completely different mentality than regular ZvT of course (though I guess Day probably covered that far better than I could  ), but the fact that I could take multiple expansions quickly, and as long as I defended vulture harass, I would almost always come out on top, was amazing. Such a simple game flow compared to playing vs SK terran or regular mnm with tanks mixed in.
Plus, mass mutas worked at times, which was awesome =]!
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Mech was my archenemy and the sole reason I dodged ZvT on Desti solely because of it.
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On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:
It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons.
I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...
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10387 Posts
On February 07 2011 16:32 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:
It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons. I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...
if you find 12 Nex to be such a problem, either BBS all your TvPs (works until the mid-higher D+ ranks), Bunker/Marine/SCV/Vulture rush, or 1 Fact Double Expand. Just letting the Protoss 12 Nex undisturbed is a horrible idea.
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On February 07 2011 16:32 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:
It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons. I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...
I personally believe that 12nex/14nex is a safer way of fast expanding than 1gate expo. The only thing you have to worry about is the bunker/scv/vulture rush, and D terrans are almost invariably too bad to be able to micro one of those properly. I don't think I've ever lost a PvT against a D or D+ after a 12nex opener
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12 nex is an awsome opening
z v t vs SK korean terran is really tilting, half the reason I play P now.
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I Strong FD against Protosses at D/D+ level. I know you're not supposed to, but it works. I've won the past 4 games with it when they go 12 nex. If you scout them early enough, bunker rush with rallied marines and vultures. If you don't, just move out at the standard Strong FD timing with 8 rines, 2 scvs, 2 tanks, and rallied vultures and marines. When I end up engaging, they usually have a zealot and 4/5 goons, and I outmicro them. I might come out of it with like 3 rines, an scv, two tanks, and the rallied vultures.
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I did manage to win a game with bunker rush against a 12 nexus once.
I got lucky since I was able to scout him in 1st try and he was teching off of 1 gate rather than 2 gate.
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I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.
Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.
It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On February 07 2011 15:11 ArvickHero wrote:
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[
My thoughts exactly. If a protoss does that to you, you should thank him for the free win.
Anyway, those old Day9 podcasts are indeed awesome. I have almost all of them on my iPod and still listen to them from time to time. Good luck with your laddering. Maybe you should enter the ISL :D
Broodwar hwaiting~!
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On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.
Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.
It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains
Wait what? What Protosses are you playing....
I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...
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On February 07 2011 17:59 DTK-m2 wrote:
I Strong FD against Protosses at D/D+ level. I know you're not supposed to, but it works. I've won the past 4 games with it when they go 12 nex. If you scout them early enough, bunker rush with rallied marines and vultures. If you don't, just move out at the standard Strong FD timing with 8 rines, 2 scvs, 2 tanks, and rallied vultures and marines. When I end up engaging, they usually have a zealot and 4/5 goons, and I outmicro them. I might come out of it with like 3 rines, an scv, two tanks, and the rallied vultures.
This strat works every time up to like C level if you do it right haha
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Thank you guys for the replies! That is just awesome
On February 07 2011 20:58 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 15:11 ArvickHero wrote:
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[ My thoughts exactly. If a protoss does that to you, you should thank him for the free win. Anyway, those old Day9 podcasts are indeed awesome. I have almost all of them on my iPod and still listen to them from time to time. Good luck with your laddering. Maybe you should enter the ISL :D Broodwar hwaiting~!
Well, it is a free win, and sometimes I DO thank them, just to be a dick. But it's just so BORING!
And of course: Broodwar hwaiting~!
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On February 07 2011 23:40 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.
Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.
It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains Wait what? What Protosses are you playing.... I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...
There's a good thread in the strategy forum about a viable FE.
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On February 07 2011 23:40 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.
Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.
It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains Wait what? What Protosses are you playing.... I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...
That's pretty much the only build I've been using in PvP for the past few days... it's surprisingly viable. I've lost a fair amount of games with it, but in general due to my own stupidity rather than flaws in the build itself. Give it a shot!
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On February 08 2011 05:44 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 23:40 xxpack09 wrote:On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.
Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.
It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains Wait what? What Protosses are you playing.... I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP... There's a good thread in the strategy forum about a viable FE.
I know, and I've used the build. I've never seen a single other person on iCCup use it though
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EPT
