• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:24
CEST 05:24
KST 12:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy2Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)3BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Who’s Getting the Effortless-Chic Look Just Right?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 17902 users

BW is fun again

Blogs > DerNebel
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
DerNebel
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark648 Posts
February 07 2011 05:52 GMT
#1
So, in the past couple of weeks I had been less and less motivated to play BW. It was not that I didn't feel like my play was improving, it was actually. It was just the massive amount of BM and turtle strategies that brought me down.

It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons. The carriers were so late that even though I won easily, the games were at least 30 minutes long. ZvZ is just weird, and I would lose every game I played. That's okay though, it was not like I was dying to anything but my own lack of skill. ZvT was, and still is, the worst. I had a hard time figuring out the push timings and when to tech to defilers. Even worse was mech.

Mech was just crushing to play against. I had no idea how to kill that friggin' death ball going towards my base. Every game would be me taking 3-5 bases well saturated then rolling over and dying.

Until I found this little gem: the Day[9] podcasts of old. It had a specific podcast just about playing against mech. I put it on and listens it through, and what do you know? My first game after listening to good ol' Sean Plott is against a terran. Who takes a fast gas!

The following game was awesome. Simply awesome. We were about evenly matched in skill, but my macro was slightly better than his, to make up for my lackluster unit control (this is D level mind you). I killed his first push and then choked him by killing expos until he was back at his mined-out natural.

He then leaves with no gg. In conclusion: BW is still the best game in the world. Sometimes you just need to NOT get crushed in every game you play.

*****
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
February 07 2011 05:58 GMT
#2
ah, sweet victory. post a rep
Writer
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
February 07 2011 05:59 GMT
#3
liquipedia did a whole roundtable on this a long long long time ago, but it would still be useful if you're having trouble against it ^^ GoODluck laddering!
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
February 07 2011 06:03 GMT
#4
Ah, a simple victory will always cheer you up especially after losing to Koreans 10 games in a row. Good old days on Iccup.
Brood War loyalist
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
February 07 2011 06:11 GMT
#5
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[
Writerptrk
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7218 Posts
February 07 2011 06:30 GMT
#6
Playing vs mech was the only time when my ZvT was actually successful in BW! It requires a completely different mentality than regular ZvT of course (though I guess Day probably covered that far better than I could ), but the fact that I could take multiple expansions quickly, and as long as I defended vulture harass, I would almost always come out on top, was amazing. Such a simple game flow compared to playing vs SK terran or regular mnm with tanks mixed in.

Plus, mass mutas worked at times, which was awesome =]!
Entusman #12
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
February 07 2011 06:41 GMT
#7
Mech was my archenemy and the sole reason I dodged ZvT on Desti solely because of it.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
February 07 2011 07:32 GMT
#8
On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:


It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons.

I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
February 07 2011 08:01 GMT
#9
On February 07 2011 16:32 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:


It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons.

I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...

if you find 12 Nex to be such a problem, either BBS all your TvPs (works until the mid-higher D+ ranks), Bunker/Marine/SCV/Vulture rush, or 1 Fact Double Expand. Just letting the Protoss 12 Nex undisturbed is a horrible idea.
Writerptrk
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
February 07 2011 08:20 GMT
#10
On February 07 2011 16:32 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2011 14:52 DerNebel wrote:


It felt like half the Protosses I played would 2-base carrier me, but with 10 million cannons.

I'm D terran, and I swear half the protosses I come against does 12 or 14 nexus. Then at some random time, they show up with twice the size of army than they normally should have and just rofl steamroll my line of defense. But yeah, we D players tend to just milk everything we have from 2-3 bases and fight a war of attrition rather than expand...


I personally believe that 12nex/14nex is a safer way of fast expanding than 1gate expo. The only thing you have to worry about is the bunker/scv/vulture rush, and D terrans are almost invariably too bad to be able to micro one of those properly. I don't think I've ever lost a PvT against a D or D+ after a 12nex opener
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
February 07 2011 08:25 GMT
#11
12 nex is an awsome opening

z v t vs SK korean terran is really tilting, half the reason I play P now.
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
February 07 2011 08:59 GMT
#12
I Strong FD against Protosses at D/D+ level. I know you're not supposed to, but it works. I've won the past 4 games with it when they go 12 nex. If you scout them early enough, bunker rush with rallied marines and vultures. If you don't, just move out at the standard Strong FD timing with 8 rines, 2 scvs, 2 tanks, and rallied vultures and marines. When I end up engaging, they usually have a zealot and 4/5 goons, and I outmicro them. I might come out of it with like 3 rines, an scv, two tanks, and the rallied vultures.
안지호
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
February 07 2011 09:12 GMT
#13
I did manage to win a game with bunker rush against a 12 nexus once.
I got lucky since I was able to scout him in 1st try and he was teching off of 1 gate rather than 2 gate.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
February 07 2011 09:21 GMT
#14
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.

Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.

It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
Sayle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom3685 Posts
February 07 2011 11:58 GMT
#15
On February 07 2011 15:11 ArvickHero wrote:
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[


My thoughts exactly. If a protoss does that to you, you should thank him for the free win.

Anyway, those old Day9 podcasts are indeed awesome. I have almost all of them on my iPod and still listen to them from time to time. Good luck with your laddering. Maybe you should enter the ISL :D

Broodwar hwaiting~!
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
February 07 2011 14:40 GMT
#16
On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.

Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.

It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains


Wait what? What Protosses are you playing....

I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
February 07 2011 15:42 GMT
#17
On February 07 2011 17:59 DTK-m2 wrote:
I Strong FD against Protosses at D/D+ level. I know you're not supposed to, but it works. I've won the past 4 games with it when they go 12 nex. If you scout them early enough, bunker rush with rallied marines and vultures. If you don't, just move out at the standard Strong FD timing with 8 rines, 2 scvs, 2 tanks, and rallied vultures and marines. When I end up engaging, they usually have a zealot and 4/5 goons, and I outmicro them. I might come out of it with like 3 rines, an scv, two tanks, and the rallied vultures.


This strat works every time up to like C level if you do it right haha
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
DerNebel
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark648 Posts
February 07 2011 18:09 GMT
#18
Thank you guys for the replies! That is just awesome

On February 07 2011 20:58 Sayle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2011 15:11 ArvickHero wrote:
wtf when did this trend of Protosses going 2 base Carrier in PvZ happen, looks like I missed it :[


My thoughts exactly. If a protoss does that to you, you should thank him for the free win.

Anyway, those old Day9 podcasts are indeed awesome. I have almost all of them on my iPod and still listen to them from time to time. Good luck with your laddering. Maybe you should enter the ISL :D

Broodwar hwaiting~!


Well, it is a free win, and sometimes I DO thank them, just to be a dick. But it's just so BORING!

And of course: Broodwar hwaiting~!
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
February 07 2011 20:44 GMT
#19
On February 07 2011 23:40 xxpack09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.

Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.

It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains


Wait what? What Protosses are you playing....

I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...


There's a good thread in the strategy forum about a viable FE.
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
February 07 2011 23:12 GMT
#20
On February 07 2011 23:40 xxpack09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2011 18:21 Ricjames wrote:
I had a losing streak at PvT about 5-20 and i was getting really pissed at every terran i played. Eventhough PvT is said to be favoring P, i just couldn't beat terran no matter what i did. I went back on it, checked several replays and won last 4 PvTs i played.

Now i really have problems in PvP (which was my best MU according to win percentage). I don't like to FE and most protosses do fe lately with the 5 zealot push as described by Frozen's FE PVP guide.

It always seems i have a problem with one matchup at a time and next week it turns around to another matchup. At least i always have one that is pretty decent ^^. BW is fun, except when i am tired and play without using my brains


Wait what? What Protosses are you playing....

I almost NEVER see a toss attempt FE in PvP...


That's pretty much the only build I've been using in PvP for the past few days... it's surprisingly viable. I've lost a fair amount of games with it, but in general due to my own stupidity rather than flaws in the build itself. Give it a shot!
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #15
TBD vs ArTLIVE!
xJustxJordanx6
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
00:00
uThermal 2v2 Circuit: May
CranKy Ducklings118
Liquipedia
OSC
21:00
Mid Season Playoffs
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft344
RuFF_SC2 192
Nina 128
SteadfastSC101
Ketroc 27
EnDerr 18
NoRegreT_ 1
StarCraft: Brood War
JulyZerg 114
Icarus 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever499
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1116
taco 455
Other Games
summit1g11351
C9.Mang01942
shahzam1238
ViBE254
ToD142
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1504
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH286
• Hupsaiya 76
• practicex 32
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 23
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5582
• Stunt205
Other Games
• Scarra1360
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
7h 36m
HiGhDrA vs Nicoract
MaNa vs HiGhDrA
HiGhDrA vs Reynor
Nicoract vs Reynor
MaNa vs Nicoract
MaNa vs Reynor
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs Spirit
OSC
9h 36m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
15h 36m
Korean StarCraft League
23h 36m
SOOP
1d 5h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
Cheesadelphia
1d 11h
CSO Cup
1d 13h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 14h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.