EPTWhy is Bronze league so cheesy? /qq blog - Page 3
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johndavis
94 Posts
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Raeleigh
Canada902 Posts
On December 31 2010 17:45 meegrean wrote: just learn to defend against all-ins. easier said than done, imo | ||
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coats
Canada7 Posts
select some workers>A attack the rush while making infantry+more workers(if you have the money)+wall off>win game ask someone on the forums to cheese you all day and practice against it | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
If you know they're going to attack you, (1) scout it, (2) defend it. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
#2) watch your replays: What were you doing to respond to the cheese when it was on its way, did you even know it was? Be certain that you aren't mistaking a simple bit of early pressure for cheese, it can be tempting to think that every early attack is cheesy. When you succesfully defend something look at what you did right, how long you needed to have that defence in place etc (and try not to fool yourself if the defence only worked because they did something stupid) #3) search the strategy forum for how to defend popular cheeses so you know how to react when you do scout something! #4) practice makes perfect: if you can find someone to play a few customs with who's happy to play random (so you don't know what's coming =p) and rush you with a couple of different builds you can work on your defence without the worry of a loss keeping you in bronze #5) if all else fails, adopt a more defensive opening to your builds: It sounds like your macro mechanics are considerably better than the majority of your opponents, so why not sacrifice some economy early to allow you to defend during the stage of the game when you are weak. You'll eventually want to fend things off in a more economical fashion, but if you just want to have a bit of fun, win a few more ladder games, and advance out of bronze then abuse your strengths and force a macro game. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6593 Posts
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Tekin
2711 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
Just be patient, at a point you'll be able to hold it off so you'll start to get better, just be patient and play a lot, you'll get less cheese. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
On December 31 2010 15:52 Hot_Bid wrote: If you learn how to defend cheese, it's pretty easy to stop it at Bronze level. They really can't do it well, even 4 gate is just mistimed and badly executed. 6-pool can be stopped with just doing safe gate and rax timings. QFT. Even in Diamond, people are so bad at executing cheese. Just because they can get their zerglings there faster doesn't mean they'll know how to micro them. Other low-level cheese like Cannon rushes rely on people overreacting, like attacking the Pylons or Cannons, instead of just killing the Probe and stopping further advance. | ||
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FrayzZeUsher
United States225 Posts
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Ipp
United States456 Posts
* Search for a Build Order Tester and do your build until you remember when to move your worker where you want to build and build when you have exactly that amount. * Use hotkeys to switch building and build units * Play campaign some. * Watch pro's play and look at their build order * Post some replays so people can tell you what you did wrong. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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jlim
Spain943 Posts
On December 31 2010 15:39 Raeleigh wrote: I was like that. >_> Then I said no matter how poorly or how well I do, i'm going to end up in Bronze league anyway, so no point in procrastinating. And now I wish I hadn't even bothered. >: U Thanks for your advice. I have the same problem you've had and lately I've been thinking of doing that, just go ahead and start from the bottom of bronze league. Now I think I'm gonna train for some more time before the placement matches lol. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
it was about zergs and reacting to bunker rushes, I believe. Just find a friend and have them cheese you for hours until you know the timings, how to properly react, etc. Frustrating, but it seems like you've got a good mid-late game going and if you can get over the early game stupidity you'll be able to capitalize on their cheese instead of hating it. Plus, I'm plat zerg and I get cheesed all the time anyways so it's not like Bronze = cheese and everything else = standard macro game anyways...so at some point you'll have to learn how to counter all these cheeses anyways, mind as well start learning basic timings and strategies to counter them while they aren't as potent. | ||
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Raeleigh
Canada902 Posts
On December 31 2010 18:04 coats wrote: select some workers>A attack the rush while making infantry+more workers(if you have the money)+wall off>win game ask someone on the forums to cheese you all day and practice against it I was thinking about doing this this morning on my way to work, to be honest. I was gonna post another blog about it later with a few replays uploaded. But i'm incredibly embarrassed at how poorly I play, so I don't want to upload replays, haha. On December 31 2010 18:20 mmp wrote: Play defensively, macro hard, and you should be able to work your way over these clowns. If you know they're going to attack you, (1) scout it, (2) defend it. Again, easier said than done. /shrug On December 31 2010 18:26 Asha` wrote: #1) make sure you scout! #2) watch your replays: What were you doing to respond to the cheese when it was on its way, did you even know it was? Be certain that you aren't mistaking a simple bit of early pressure for cheese, it can be tempting to think that every early attack is cheesy. When you succesfully defend something look at what you did right, how long you needed to have that defence in place etc (and try not to fool yourself if the defence only worked because they did something stupid) #3) search the strategy forum for how to defend popular cheeses so you know how to react when you do scout something! #4) practice makes perfect: if you can find someone to play a few customs with who's happy to play random (so you don't know what's coming =p) and rush you with a couple of different builds you can work on your defence without the worry of a loss keeping you in bronze #5) if all else fails, adopt a more defensive opening to your builds: It sounds like your macro mechanics are considerably better than the majority of your opponents, so why not sacrifice some economy early to allow you to defend during the stage of the game when you are weak. You'll eventually want to fend things off in a more economical fashion, but if you just want to have a bit of fun, win a few more ladder games, and advance out of bronze then abuse your strengths and force a macro game. I actually, really, really hate watching my own games unless I do well. I get really mad. LOL. /fail But I mean, one of the things my boyfriend has noticed is that when I'm playing Terran(since I main terran) I can usually keep my economy low and units being pushed out. That's after about the 10 minute mark though. Otherwise my early game is really weak, and I just get frustrated and flustered easily. I 2v2 with my boyfriend a lot, and honestly when we play together, the reason we lose early is cause he ALWAYS fast expands and doesn't have any units out !_! ~~ The only time I can really defend and get units out is when I'm playing with someone else, haha. .__. But maybe I'll stop trying to be aggressive and start being more defensive. Thank you! On December 31 2010 22:25 OmniEulogy wrote: just practice 1v1 with friends who are plat/diamond with win % over 60 and you should be fine when it comes to the ladder if you can play competitively against your friends. Well, obviously I'd be fine when it comes to ladder if I could play against my friends who are plat/diamond level. ANYONE would be. The fact is, I can't. This is the problem. Also, I really, really dislike playing against my friends. I get mad super easily and throw hissy fits >:U Or if I play against my boyfriend and he wins, I won't talk to him for the rest of the night. But I tell him to try things against me! Q_Q It's hard, haha. On December 31 2010 22:29 Tekin wrote: I know how you feel man but I had to cheese on my placement games with double gas steals Lol, Double gas steal. I guess I could try cheesing and just try not to care about games. Idk. p_q Feels like betrayal. On January 01 2011 00:24 TemplarCo. wrote: Well its not the only cheesy league believe me I'm in Platinum and still get cannon rushed, 6pooled and bunker all-in rush so it does happen in the other of leagues but its less common. Just be patient, at a point you'll be able to hold it off so you'll start to get better, just be patient and play a lot, you'll get less cheese. I hope you're right. p_q | ||
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Raeleigh
Canada902 Posts
On January 01 2011 00:28 jacosajh wrote: QFT. Even in Diamond, people are so bad at executing cheese. Just because they can get their zerglings there faster doesn't mean they'll know how to micro them. Other low-level cheese like Cannon rushes rely on people overreacting, like attacking the Pylons or Cannons, instead of just killing the Probe and stopping further advance. The one time I did canon rush, they did exactly that, and just attacked the canon with their probes. I was incredibly confused. I know if I got canon rushed, I'd either A) Leave cause it's irritates me B) Get SCVs out and get some units(maruaders) that can take a beating to get rid of the probe(if I haven't done it yet)/pylon/canons o_o On January 01 2011 00:56 FrayzZeUsher wrote: Its the same in 2500+ diamond. Nobody plays the actual game.. just all-in ridiculousness. Do people do this all-in/cheese nonsense just as much in BW? The only experience I have playing BW is when one of my ex's taught me how to cheese people and I did that for about an hour before I got bored. Idk. I think I just don't like the hollow-win feeling. p_q On January 01 2011 02:23 Ipp wrote: * Use your Veto's and veto the maps that cheese is the strongest on such as Steppes of War. * Search for a Build Order Tester and do your build until you remember when to move your worker where you want to build and build when you have exactly that amount. * Use hotkeys to switch building and build units * Play campaign some. * Watch pro's play and look at their build order * Post some replays so people can tell you what you did wrong. I took out other maps, can't remember now. Maybe it's just me, but I actually really enjoy steppes of war. >____>; !! I've never been cheesed on there before. As for a build order tester, perhaps I'll look into that then o: And I do use hot keys ^___^ !! I beat the campaign.. xD I watch GSL all the time p_q And I watch replays of my friends who 10x better than me too. And idk if I'll ever post replays. LOL. /facedesk See, my boyfriend and lots of people say, I have all the skills I need(I can keep economy down, I do use hotkeys, I divide things up into different groups/hot keys to attack better, so on), I just need to really work on getting things down and practicing and using them =_= (Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I just woke up ~_~) On January 01 2011 02:32 Plexa wrote: Upload a replay One day. :< I just reformatted, and the only replays I kept were the ones where I did well. XD! I guess I do have a few/a million bad replays. XD On January 01 2011 03:01 jlim wrote: Thanks for your advice. I have the same problem you've had and lately I've been thinking of doing that, just go ahead and start from the bottom of bronze league. Now I think I'm gonna train for some more time before the placement matches lol. Yeah, I got really nervous doing ladder matches. I still do(my hands get shakey really easily).. But I decided I might as well just do p_q But now i'm stuck xD! Just don't get stuck! On January 01 2011 03:14 Torenhire wrote: Day9 just did a daily on this not too long ago. it was about zergs and reacting to bunker rushes, I believe. Just find a friend and have them cheese you for hours until you know the timings, how to properly react, etc. Frustrating, but it seems like you've got a good mid-late game going and if you can get over the early game stupidity you'll be able to capitalize on their cheese instead of hating it. Plus, I'm plat zerg and I get cheesed all the time anyways so it's not like Bronze = cheese and everything else = standard macro game anyways...so at some point you'll have to learn how to counter all these cheeses anyways, mind as well start learning basic timings and strategies to counter them while they aren't as potent. Ah, I think for me it's just.. Every game in Bronze I've played lately has been pretty much, cheesy. Or all-in. Which I don't respond to well. When I lose after like.. a 30 minute game? I feel alright, because I know I did try and I did get outplayed. You know? But losing to cheese is like.. opening a box of chocolates to find that all your favorites were eaten, and you're left with all those gross raspberry filled ones, toffee filled ones, or weird coffee filled ones. :U I hate those ones. xD You know what I mean though? ~~~~ Thanks everyone for all the tips. Maybe starting in the New Year i'll try to look at it with a different point of view. I woke up this morning feeling much and a bit more optimistic, so maybe i'll stop playing so late at night. Anyway, I'll post a more reasonable blog perhaps, with a few replays and some progress possibly. Maybe. ^_^'' | ||
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Rocketboomer
United States5 Posts
I remember when I played a lot of street fighter and watched videos of it, Japanese players would say that American play style is to win by severely punishing mistakes. They'd say that Japanese play style is based on technical expertise and mechanics. IdrA said in an interview with Artosis that the difference between north american and korean ladder was that koreans wanted to get better while americans just wanted to win. TL;DR: cheese happens because some people only value winning. It's not unique to starcraft. Happens in every game online. Also agreeing with custom games with practice partners. as with all online games, its better to play with friends. They'll only cheese you once in a while to keep you on your toes. | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
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RyuChus
Canada442 Posts
1) Learn to defend against cheese. 2) Learn to have better macro. 3) Try and eradicate mistakes. 4) watch tons of pro games to learn from them. ( Don't just listen to commentary like i do now.) 5) HAVE FUN! GL with your, epic struggle out of bronze league. Never been down there... Don't ever want to be. | ||
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