• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:32
CEST 05:32
KST 12:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League28Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1265.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10418 users

Who is right???

Blogs > Welmu
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Welmu
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Finland3295 Posts
December 27 2010 18:14 GMT
#1
Hey, I had this game where my opponent went 14 hatch and I responded with forge and cannons, but he was able to defend and win me. Then the interesting part, our conversation after game. I just want to know who's right on this case. It doesn't feel too good when you lose while you are favored to someone, who tells after game how noob you are :<

Conversation: + Show Spoiler +
MetalMarek: wow .. so pathetic
MetalMarek has reconnected.
You: lol?
why
MetalMarek: cannnoooons .. oh .. he defended ? no plan B > "gg"
You: well
i was too much behind
your plan really good too
i hope he doesnt 2 gate or get forge first
or micro good
and i will win
MetalMarek: i dont care about any of that i can outmicro any toss
You: yeah
thats why you all-in
with hatch first
MetalMarek: i prepared for macro game nothink allinish there
You: yeah
MetalMarek: you did all in
You: you did since
if hatch fails
you lose
i responded just bad
MetalMarek: :D
You: since didnt make probes
you just flip coin
MetalMarek: 14 hatch is allin in your dictionary :D
You: and hope you win
or lose
yeah
anyone could say that is all in
or
it is
MetalMarek: so funyy
You: maybe more cheese
just
first time in two weeks
MetalMarek: most solid build is called cheese now :D
You: i face hatch first :/
lol
i have never seen pro in go4sc2
do hatch first against toss and win
very solid
build
MetalMarek: eu has no good zergs
only 1
You: yeah
you are best
you can allin
MetalMarek: this conversation is going to teamliquid :D have fun
You: sure
>.<
MetalMarek: under rage stories
You: i guess
you lose this time
MetalMarek: funny think is massgamer like yourself think he understand this game
MetalMarek has reconnected.
MetalMarek: u have 50% win ratio like any other noob
look on my WR, knee and pray and maybe i will share some of my infinite knowledge on you
MetalMarek has disconnected.


[image loading]


*
Progamertwitter.com/welmu1 | twitch.com/Welmu1
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-27 18:20:52
December 27 2010 18:20 GMT
#2
14 Hatch is a standard Zerg opening, it's not cheese or all-in at all.

I will say this is solely based on the conversation though. Bout to watch it.
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-27 18:24:47
December 27 2010 18:24 GMT
#3
It isn't his decision to risk his economy by doing some sort of cheese. You are.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
December 27 2010 18:25 GMT
#4
why do you even have convos with people like that? ESPECIALLY a first line like that -> block player
starleague forever
Tuneful
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States327 Posts
December 27 2010 18:27 GMT
#5
Yeah, I don't see why you care.. this zerg doesn't seem like he's worth the keystrokes to me.
"I play this game for three years, twelve hours a day - I shouldn't lose to these people"
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26004 Posts
December 27 2010 18:28 GMT
#6
I like when I lose and people message me to rub it in. Instantly block.
Moderator
Welmu
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Finland3295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-27 18:28:35
December 27 2010 18:28 GMT
#7
On December 28 2010 03:27 Tuneful wrote:
Yeah, I don't see why you care.. this zerg doesn't seem like he's worth the keystrokes to me.

Well, I just want to be sure, if 14hatch is all-in or not so I know how to respond better :>
Progamertwitter.com/welmu1 | twitch.com/Welmu1
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
December 27 2010 18:29 GMT
#8
u can't defend cannons with hatch first

you didn't use the cannons correctly

sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay

next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them


the conversation is stupid btw
krypti_c
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States64 Posts
December 27 2010 18:29 GMT
#9
Wait... so the point you are trying to make is that hatch first is all-in? If that is the case then I think you are absolutely wrong. Hatch first might be risky but that does not define it as all-in. I think your definition of what is an all-in is the major issue, there is a difference between going 14 hatch and pulling all your scvs for a two rax marine push.
TheGreatWhiteHope_
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States335 Posts
December 27 2010 18:30 GMT
#10
You're wrong. 14 hatch is not all in.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
December 27 2010 18:30 GMT
#11
hatch first vs protoss isn't allin, it's just bad, and loses every time to forge first from a good player
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
December 27 2010 18:31 GMT
#12
hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term (Wiki)all-in correctly please.

and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Welmu
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Finland3295 Posts
December 27 2010 18:31 GMT
#13
On December 28 2010 03:29 travis wrote:
u can't defend cannons with hatch first

you didn't use the cannons correctly

sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay

next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them


the conversation is stupid btw

yeah, but the problem is I did exactly like that. 12 Gateway, 14 Forge, cutted probe production, but still lost... was very suprised.
Progamertwitter.com/welmu1 | twitch.com/Welmu1
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-27 18:33:35
December 27 2010 18:31 GMT
#14
On December 28 2010 03:29 travis wrote:
u can't defend cannons with hatch first

you didn't use the cannons correctly

sorry im not gonna bother watching the replay

next time cut probes at 14 and just keep making cannons nonstop
put them in spots where drones cant get full surrounds on them


the conversation is stupid btw


From what I saw on Blistering, it's pretty hard to get Cannons in a good spot to hit the Hatch without risking a good surround. There is a lot of open space behind the mineral lines and anywhere else is just asking for a surround.

It was Protoss-T, Zerg-B.

He had to rebuild his Pylon and cancel his first 2 cannons and wasn't getting Probes during the whole thing (well, you say you shouldn't, but it would've helped him in this case because Zerg wasn't really producing anything, although he could've just gotten Lings when his Pool went up...), which would've put him ahead because the Zerg pulled a ton of Drones and stopped producing for some reason. Yet he continued, even after the creep spread from the Hatch while not doing anything in his base. Except one Zealot that could've done a little more damage but was mis-microed a tad.

It was just sloppy.


Welmu
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Finland3295 Posts
December 27 2010 18:33 GMT
#15
On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:
hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term (Wiki)all-in correctly please.

and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...

hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P
Progamertwitter.com/welmu1 | twitch.com/Welmu1
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 27 2010 18:33 GMT
#16
STOP USING THE TERM ALL-IN WRONG.

All-in is an attack, ONLY.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-27 18:36:44
December 27 2010 18:35 GMT
#17
On December 28 2010 03:33 Welmu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:
hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term (Wiki)all-in correctly please.

and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...

hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P


...

It's a lot safer to Pool/Gas first in PvT, but Hatch first is very strong on maps with large rush distances because it takes longer for you to be able to respond.

That and it doesn't seem like BS is good for building cannons safely.

It's not cheese or an all-in, it's just a really greedy build and can be punished with fast aggression.
Seltsam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
December 27 2010 18:36 GMT
#18
Well hatch first isn't an all-in build if you ask me, but that guy is still the dick in the conversation. You weren't exactly a nice guy but at least your comments were in response to his. In my mind, the person who initiates BM is the bigger dick.
Team Limited ftw! www.teamltd.net
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
7094 Posts
December 27 2010 18:38 GMT
#19
On December 28 2010 03:33 Welmu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2010 03:31 palanq wrote:
hatch first is kinda risky, sure. I'm not sure if it's autolose anything, but blistering actually has pretty long rush distances. Use the term (Wiki)all-in correctly please.

and holy shit you are persistent with those cannons. he is right to say you should have a plan B. there was probably a point where you could have cut your losses and continued with a regular game...

hmm... Is 14hatch more like cheese then? I can't imagine it as normal play since I almost never face it =P

You must have a huge reputation of being a cheeser if you NEVER see a 14hatch, it might not be the most popular at this moment because of the numerous ways a protoss can punish the zerg for being greedy but especially in four player maps its still widely used.

High level play is in a rather sad state if a standard macro opening has become an all-in or a cheese.
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
December 27 2010 18:38 GMT
#20
While I agree 14hatch is hard to defend, its in no way an all in. It's just a risky opening against toss
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
06:30
Best Games of SC
Clem vs SHIN
herO vs SHIN
Serral vs Solar
Clem vs SHIN
Reynor vs TBD
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
01:00
Swiss - Round 6
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 228
Livibee 139
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 103
910 53
Terrorterran 50
sOs 27
Noble 16
Icarus 4
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm224
Other Games
summit1g7896
JimRising 646
WinterStarcraft448
ViBE147
Khaldor117
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick699
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 285
• davetesta22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo628
Other Games
• Shiphtur7
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 28m
OSC
9h 28m
IPSL
12h 28m
BSL Open Qualifier
15h 28m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 7h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.