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I have a bone to pick.
It seems like anytime I pop over to the Strategy thread, I'll see at least one "general trouble" threads that are phrased like the following:
"I can't seem to beat Zerg as Terran. If I don't wall, his speedlings kill me. If I FE and wall, he baneling busts me. If I one-base hard he just outexpands me and takes map control with imba drone production. Anytime I go tanks he has mutas, anytime I pump vikings his hydras kill them, and my MMM gets eaten by his fungal + blings! I can't win!"
Here's the problem with what you're saying: your Zerg opponent has fast speedlings, a baneling nest (with roll), roach nest (with speed), hydra den (with range), Spire (with a significant muta investment), infestor den (almost certainly with Pathogen Glands), and has five bases.
This is a strategy game! You can do at most ONE thing at a time in any RTS! He's EITHER going heavy muta/ling OR he has enough roaches/hydras to hold off a concerted tank push. He's EITHER investing in econ OR investing in army. People tend to see every possibility they've ever encountered and assuming that his opponent can do all these things at once.
Stop assuming and start scouting. Watch the replay and imagine what would have happened if you'd gone the opposite tech route. Look at that MMM game where he has fungal+bling and imagine if you'd done heavy mech play instead. Boy those blings don't hurt your tanks too much do they? Look at that FE where he baneling busts you and imagine if you'd walled up harder. Boy those 8 zerglings are looking pretty stupid on the OUTSIDE of your base, don't they?
Your opponent has exactly as many or as few options as you do. The exception is very late game Zerg where your opponent may well be teching down EVERY path once he's 200/200 in case a sudden tech switch would win the game. In reality, a Terran cannot have a big bioball, a big tank force, and fast cloak banshees at once. Protoss cannot open Void Rays and have the units to hold off a 4gate. Zerg cannot open fast expand and hold off fast 2rax pressure on a small map (read: Steppes or Delta Quadrant).
Your analysis is lazy, and you're turning to the forums to do your thinking for you. When you analyze your own games, you learn faster, you feel better, and you win more games. Try it.
/nerdrage
  
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Sound advice and game theory posing as a rage blog. Enjoyed it; would read again.
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Yeah, the concept of him only being able to do one thing seems to escape a lot of people, because they try different things in different games against different people and all the worst events are the ones they remember when posting a rage/whine blog.
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Amen. My brother is exactly as you described when he is having a losing streak. Now days he doesn't play much SC... he's gone back to the turbo easy WoW.
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On December 10 2010 20:03 Rowen wrote:
Here's the problem with what you're saying: your Zerg opponent has fast speedlings, a baneling nest (with roll), roach nest (with speed), hydra den (with range), Spire (with a significant muta investment), infestor den (almost certainly with Pathogen Glands), and has five bases.
... No he's not..
do i really need to explain what the word "if" means? come on, you're trolling us. just admit it~
User was warned for this post
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Actually, his analysis of his losses are sillier than that. He's not saying zerg has all those things, he's saying zerg has the exact counter to his every build every game. (which, ofc, is not possible unless you're really getting baneling busted every game you wall)
It's the reason so many people don't read the strat forums, there are so many thinly veiled frustration threads instead of actually asking for help on strategy. They just want to see people agreeing with them that XvY matchup is hard and frustrating.
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what has this got to do with your post in that thread? I'm sorry I really can't see the relation.
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It seems like anytime I pop over to the Strategy thread
Well there's your problem. Keep the strategy forum minimized. It stopped being good after the April flood of terrible wow kiddies and after good players stopped posting in it entirely.
Back in the very early days of beta you could find insightful posts by Jinro, IdrA and Chill in the strategy section. Now it's whine upon whine upon whine.
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United States4796 Posts
In your anger you have managed to make me see something. If that means anything.
5/5
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On December 10 2010 23:38 Sadistx wrote:Well there's your problem. Keep the strategy forum minimized. It stopped being good after the April flood of terrible wow kiddies and after good players stopped posting in it entirely. Back in the very early days of beta you could find insightful posts by Jinro, IdrA and Chill in the strategy section. Now it's whine upon whine upon whine.
I recently made a thread looking for a specific piece of advice from some better players. What I got was about 80% of the people responding with absolute crap advice, or not even understanding what the question really was..... Of the last 20%, I got no information that I didn't already have..... I have the SC2 strategy bar minimized now.....
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On December 11 2010 03:25 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 23:38 Sadistx wrote:It seems like anytime I pop over to the Strategy thread Well there's your problem. Keep the strategy forum minimized. It stopped being good after the April flood of terrible wow kiddies and after good players stopped posting in it entirely. Back in the very early days of beta you could find insightful posts by Jinro, IdrA and Chill in the strategy section. Now it's whine upon whine upon whine. I recently made a thread looking for a specific piece of advice from some better players. What I got was about 80% of the people responding with absolute crap advice, or not even understanding what the question really was..... Of the last 20%, I got no information that I didn't already have..... I have the SC2 strategy bar minimized now.....
- long OP with an articulated argument and question
- first response: 1 sentence post that just throws out a random build; clearly didn't read the entirety of the OP
- potentially good thread derailed by idiots within 5 minutes
- thread is now beyond salvation
rinse and repeat
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On December 11 2010 03:40 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 03:25 Impervious wrote:On December 10 2010 23:38 Sadistx wrote:It seems like anytime I pop over to the Strategy thread Well there's your problem. Keep the strategy forum minimized. It stopped being good after the April flood of terrible wow kiddies and after good players stopped posting in it entirely. Back in the very early days of beta you could find insightful posts by Jinro, IdrA and Chill in the strategy section. Now it's whine upon whine upon whine. I recently made a thread looking for a specific piece of advice from some better players. What I got was about 80% of the people responding with absolute crap advice, or not even understanding what the question really was..... Of the last 20%, I got no information that I didn't already have..... I have the SC2 strategy bar minimized now..... - long OP with an articulated argument and question - first response: 1 sentence post that just throws out a random build; clearly didn't read the entirety of the OP - potentially good thread derailed by idiots within 5 minutes - thread is now beyond salvation rinse and repeat
Essentially, yes. 
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That was my first experience with TL Strategy as well back when I was JUST starting the game and was firmly in bronze. Surely you all remember when you thought the more money you had in the bank the better your play was. Yeah, way back then.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165970
I posted a replay, had a specific question I was asking, and still got tons of general suggestions from people who hadn't watched the game. I love when I'm asking a question about a game and admit that I'm not diamond (at the time I was silver, but this still happens now and I'm rank 1 platinum), whatever question I was asking or specific analysis I was asking for goes out the window for "ZOMG MACRO MOAR NUB"
It certainly doesn't bug me as much as strat threads claiming XvY is imba because Y is OP because they counter everything X does. It doesn't bug me as much as people being BM after a loss and PMing me afterward saying "Zerg noob, wish I could spam one unit all game and win" or etc. I even try and help them out "Well, one cannon at every expo will stop my muta harass" or "Use those reactor starports to pump a few vikings for air superiority" or "High Templar will do a better job than your war of the worlds army against that army comp" or etc, and their response is always "If I put cannons down you'll just transition to roach/hydra and I'll be 450 minerals behind your army!" (I have slowroaches and no hydra den!), "If I don't pump enough medivacs, you'll transition to roach/hydra since you won't need your fungal+blings anymore!" (I'm not gonna pump 400/400 into bling speed, infestor energy, and +1 air attack then TECH SWITCH to something I don't have upgrades for...), "High Templar will just get sniped by your mutalisks nub" (I have no SPIRE!)
I feel like getting in a logical fallacy dance-off with them. "Well if I pump vikings, you'll stop making air", "Well if I stop making air, you'll be able to pump out tanks and shut me down" "Well all those tanks will be vulnerable to bling drops and muta harass" "Well then you'll have to make vikings again" "But if I give up that much money to my army I'll be out-expoed and you'll take map control with 5 bases" "But if I'm on 5 bases my army would be super weak and you could just push and kill me" "But if you hold my attack with your imba army building you can push back and kill me!"
I feel like I'm playing chess in Robot House (Futurama, anyone? Two robots sit down at a chess board and the robot playing White announces "Mate in 146 moves" from the starting position)
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On December 11 2010 03:52 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 03:40 koreasilver wrote:On December 11 2010 03:25 Impervious wrote:On December 10 2010 23:38 Sadistx wrote:It seems like anytime I pop over to the Strategy thread Well there's your problem. Keep the strategy forum minimized. It stopped being good after the April flood of terrible wow kiddies and after good players stopped posting in it entirely. Back in the very early days of beta you could find insightful posts by Jinro, IdrA and Chill in the strategy section. Now it's whine upon whine upon whine. I recently made a thread looking for a specific piece of advice from some better players. What I got was about 80% of the people responding with absolute crap advice, or not even understanding what the question really was..... Of the last 20%, I got no information that I didn't already have..... I have the SC2 strategy bar minimized now..... - long OP with an articulated argument and question - first response: 1 sentence post that just throws out a random build; clearly didn't read the entirety of the OP - potentially good thread derailed by idiots within 5 minutes - thread is now beyond salvation rinse and repeat Essentially, yes.
I believe the operative term is: no good thread left behind.
Good OP, by the way.
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EPT
