yeah, so i was riding down a nearly empty street with a friend and a cop busted us for not stopping A BYCICLE at a stop sign.
i just got the bicycle 3 days ago (i dont drive), i was following my friend and i had no idea that in toronto bicycles have to stop at stop sign
the cop stopped us, took 20 minutes (a duration in which 3 other bicycles passed by, not stopping at red light) and gave us each a 110$ ticket (SAME GODDAM FINE AS A FUCKING CAR).
this is so garbage, and for this reason im leaving this country as soon as i graduate. people who want to come to toronto, don't. I bet in china i can ride my fucking bicycle through a red light in the highest traffic intersection at rush hour and not get fined 1 RMB.
edit:: realized i made a typing mistake, we didnt rush a red light, we didn't stop at a STOP SIGN
i wouldn't ever rush through a red light, but in toronto theres like a million stop signs and if we get fined for not stopping at a stop sign, i rather stop biking and just ride an unenvironmentally friendly car
In the US bicycles on the road are often treated as cars. ionno about canada.
But just because everyone is breaking a law doesn't mean the law is stupid or shouldn't be enforced on some extent. Similar to the lamentation of someone getting pulled over for speeding when everyone else is doing it.
So you think it is safe to blow through a stop sign or redlight on a bycicle? If anything, it's more dangerous than a car because if you do get hit you will definetely be seriously hurt.
Sure it sucks, but you ran a stop sign...that is like the first law you learn as a child.
In China you can drive trucks in bicycle lanes when there's high traffic and get away with it. Of course, when the intersection comes, you have to cut back into the car lanes, causing more traffic. Anyway.
I thought the title said "fired for not stopping at stop sign." I guess it could have been worse.
Wow that's completely ridiculous. When I cycle I ignore all road laws and use the pavement when it's more convenient than the road and I've never been stopped.
My friend did get his bike confiscated by the police once lol, he was drunk, holding a beer in one hand while cycling at night with no lights on his bike
Didn't know you could be fined when riding a bike though...
I think it's ridiculous too but it makes logical sense to treat a bicycle on the ROAD the same as a car, for safety-sense and such.
That being said I don't really agree that the ticket should be the same as a car, because the implications of speeding, or going past stop signs without stopping in a car is much greater than those on a bike.
On November 15 2010 07:22 passby20 wrote: Take it to court? Or is your legal system just as moronic as U.S.?
my friend and i were thinking about taking it to court (since if the officer that ticketed us does not show up, we get let off) but in the case he does show off what can we do,do you know?
Yeah, bikes are like cars here. You can't ride on the sidewalk since its full of pedestrians - thus you are a vehicle on the roads here. At least I think that's how it is.
Rules are rules, you should have read up on it. Sorry.
Wow.. were you wearing helmets? I can understand how it would be a law, since Bikes have to obey the same laws as a car on the road.. however, I've never really heard of them being enforced..
I live in NYC and every biker runs red lights here, but it just depends on the traffic. I havent seen any bikers get fined but I am pretty sure its illegal and a fine will be considered.
On November 15 2010 07:24 Graham wrote: I think it's ridiculous too but it makes logical sense to treat a bicycle on the ROAD the same as a car, for safety-sense and such.
yeah, but if you're gonna treat a bycicle on the road as a car, what's the fucking point of bicycle lanes? (yes, we were riding in the bicycle lane)
Yea and in China, no one will care if you get run over by a car. (I'm Chinese). Driving in China is really crazy and though I consider myself a pretty good driver in the U.S., I am scared to drive in China. You should be happy that there the regulations are enforced in your country.
But yea if you go to your court hearing and just explain rationally what happened and ask for a reduction or just a warning, there's a good chance you'll get one, especially if you were polite to the officer. At least this is how it works in the U.S.
On November 15 2010 07:27 saltywet wrote: yeah, but if you're gonna treat a bycicle on the road as a car, what's the fucking point of bicycle lanes? (yes, we were riding in the bicycle lane)
So then you don't ride with the vehicles? Its a safety reason... would you prefer to be biking at 40km/h in front of a truck that wants to blitz down the road at 80?
I would just like to say that running a red light on a bicycle is really really stupid. If the light is red for you, it's green for the cross traffic, thus if there was a car coming at 45mph he wouldn't be slowing down cuz it's green, omg he sees you last second and BAM it's too late for him to slow down and he smashes into you killing you instantly. This is the reason why it is illegal to go through a red light on a bike/car/walking. By giving you a fine for doing this the cop makes sure that you wont do this again, therefor possibly saving your life in the future. You should thank him for the fine
On November 15 2010 07:30 Enervate wrote: Yea and in China, no one will care if you get run over by a car. (I'm Chinese). Driving in China is really crazy and though I consider myself a pretty good driver in the U.S., I am scared to drive in China. You should be happy that there the regulations are enforced in your country.
But yea if you go to your court hearing and just explain rationally what happened and ask for a reduction or just a warning, there's a good chance you'll get one, especially if you were polite to the officer. At least this is how it works in the U.S.
All my years in the states, this never happened. If the officer shows up, you pay the fine. If the officer doesnt show up, the case is dismiss.
On November 15 2010 07:27 saltywet wrote: yeah, but if you're gonna treat a bycicle on the road as a car, what's the fucking point of bicycle lanes? (yes, we were riding in the bicycle lane)
So then you don't ride with the vehicles? Its a safety reason... would you prefer to be biking at 40km/h in front of a truck that wants to blitz down the road at 80?
On the bike you also have the ability to use left hand turns on intersections, ofc you should signal when you make you way into the turning lane. Just because there are bike lines just means cars aren't allowed to drive there but in reality usually you can bike all over the road with or without the bike line, although if you go in the middle for a prolonged period you'll be obstructing traffic.
On November 15 2010 07:31 aike wrote: I would just like to say that running a red light on a bicycle is really really stupid. If the light is red for you, it's green for the cross traffic, thus if there was a car coming at 45mph he wouldn't be slowing down cuz it's green, omg he sees you last second and BAM it's too late for him to slow down and he smashes into you killing you instantly. This is the reason why it is illegal to go through a red light on a bike/car/walking. By giving you a fine for doing this the cop makes sure that you wont do this again, therefor possibly saving your life in the future. You should thank him for the fine
This.
If I was driving I wouldn't pay that much attention to the cross traffic when it's green light. In fact, OP, if I did hit you this way (I hope I won't), I would get a free-pass because you were at fault here.
On November 15 2010 07:31 Karthane wrote: I can't believe people in this thread actually think this is ridiculous? He broke an obvious law, and it was enforced. I really don't understand.
No one said it was ridiculous ? In fact, most replies to the thread said similar things to what you just said, word for word.
You should have known the rules. Blowing stop signs on your bicycle puts you and other drivers in danger. How would you feel if someone had to swerve around you because you didn't stop and smashed up their car?
I cycle a lot, and stupid cyclists piss me off more than stupid drivers because they make the rest of us look bad.
Saltywet gets killed by a car because he doesn't feel like stopping at a stop sign. The car driver, going down the road on a green light, is now caught up in a shit load of legal trouble.
On November 15 2010 07:46 Manifesto7 wrote: You should have known the rules. Blowing stop signs on your bicycle puts you and other drivers in danger. How would you feel if someone had to swerve around you because you didn't stop and smashed up their car?
I cycle a lot, and stupid cyclists piss me off more than stupid drivers because they make the rest of us look bad.
why don't you think carefully again about what you're saying
stop signs are only abundant in neighborhoods. if a car was driving fast enough to swerve and smash up their car and get hurt, i wouldn't be the one to blame since the other driver also didn't stop at a stop sign
my partner was taking me to somewhere, and i was trying to keep up with him. i know traffic laws regarding cars plenty well, but i'm never even knew there were bicycle laws, since the last time i rode a bike was 10 years ago in edmonton and i never once encountered a law that i had to obey
i'm careful enough by myself to ride slowly and in bicycle lanes, stop at red lights and yield to pedestrians and cars on the road. I also look in all directions to see if cars are crossing. the road was almost empty, and it's ridiculous that I get fined for not stopping at a stop sign when I can tell that there are no cars that are going to cross
Probably just needed to give out tickets to hit a quota.
If traffic is like anything in Shanghai when I visited a couple years ago, traffic in China =/= traffic in USA. They disregard all the lines on the road and drive hella fast. I always took a cab because it's so fucking fun!
Edit: Oh yeah, and bikes are everywhere O.O They have their own freaking lane. It's so awesome lol.
I live in Toronto and I biked a ton over the summer. So let me get this straight, you ignored the stop sign on a main road/street? (i.e. spadina and college). Or was it some random street in a neighborhood? Since you mentioned a bicycle lane it must have been a main road with traffic lights.
If so, you probably broke the law. Regardless, cop is retarded for giving you a ticket.
Just slow down when you approach a stop sign with no traffic next time.
I think that in china, you would be run over and killed. Although you're right, they also wouldn't fine you. I actually liked biking around china a lot, althoguh the cars had no idea what to do with a bike weaving through traffic - not the smartest thing on my part, but still.
It's dumb whenever they enforce it, but usually bikes are treated as vehicles. It's just a strong argument for more multiuse 10 ft wide bike+walking paths to try to keep the traffic seperate, so that bikes dont' necessarily need to fight with cars for the same road space, as that would make everything safer for everyone.
So you want to leave Canada as soon as you can because they enforce laws here designed to keep people safe on the road? Great attitude.
I have a serious issue with cyclists who seem to think they're entitled to preferential treatment. When I ride, I act like a vehicle because I AM ONE. People like you give cyclists a bad name.
I can understand blowing through a stop sign in a residential area with no one around, but if you're anywhere with traffic you should always respect the rules of the road.
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
On November 15 2010 08:25 Frobert wrote: So you want to leave Canada as soon as you can because they enforce laws here designed to keep people safe on the road? Great attitude.
I have a serious issue with cyclists who seem to think they're entitled to preferential treatment. When I ride, I act like a vehicle because I AM ONE. People like you give cyclists a bad name.
I can understand blowing through a stop sign in a residential area with no one around, but if you're anywhere with traffic you should always respect the rules of the road.
uh, it was a residential area, i don't think i've seen a stop sign and not lights in a non-residential area. where do i say i expect preferential treatment? who do i expect it from?
obviously i don't expect riding through red lights or riding across traffic to be allowed. but is the fine for riding through a stop sign in a near empty street really the same as riding through a red light?
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
Sure, that's if you don't cause the driver of a car to swerve into another car or onto the sidewalk. You got screwed, deal with it. Don't try to rationalize it with shitty analogies, especially ones with massive holes.
And the "you" I am referring to is you the idiotic person running through traffic (which is what you are implying) and you the person on a bike.
I'd say you have a good chance to get the fine reduced, but it's up to you.
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
You're not running on the road, are you? Or if you are, I think it's illegal to run in the bike lane, strictly speaking. But I'm not actually sure. But yeah, it's still just as bad if you don't stop.
You might not be able to do damage, but someone can do damage to you. The law is there to protect the people who may hit you, which would cause a lot of trouble for them.
uh, it was a residential area, i don't think i've seen a stop sign and not lights in a non-residential area. where do i say i expect preferential treatment? who do i expect it from?
obviously i don't expect riding through red lights or riding across traffic to be allowed. but is the fine for riding through a stop sign in a near empty street really the same as riding through a red light?
You know what happens when crashes actually happen? People always say, "oh, I thought the street was empty." I'm not saying the situation you were in was dangerous. Yeah okay, you see those 2 cars coming down the road, you know what's there. But that's not always the case. One day, you may slip up. You may get used to this feeling of safety. And when you fuck up, shit happens. That's why the law is there.
If the street is empty I see no problem with going through a stop sign on a bike. It sucks that you got a ticket, but that's a risk you gotta take when you want to get across the street quicker.
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
Sure, that's if you don't cause the driver of a car to swerve into another car or onto the sidewalk. You got screwed, deal with it. Don't try to rationalize it with shitty analogies, especially ones with massive holes.
And the "you" I am referring to is you the idiotic person running through traffic (which is what you are implying) and you the person on a bike.
I'd say you have a good chance to get the fine reduced, but it's up to you.
i'm not trying to rationalize it with an analogy. i'm asking a serious question. will i get fined for running on the sidewalk and ignoring stop signs if i see there are no fucking cars riding my way?
people are pissing on me because they expect everyone to know the law; and I only got my bike for 3 days, I never drive or even ride a bike since I came to toronto, and I didn't even know or expect there to be rules for cyclists. the guy who was with me rode his bike for past 2 years also didn't know. probably 90% of the people i am acquainted with probably won't know the rule.
if i knew the rule of course i would read and obey it, that's why i don't drive because i can't be bothered to study the rules. i didn't expect there to be a law governing cycling and that's what i'm complaining about
Getting fined for not stopping at a Stop Sign is so fucking ridiculous and WAAAAAY more ridiculous, to the point that I dare to call everybody who defends it retarded, if you are just riding a bike.
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
On November 15 2010 08:25 Frobert wrote: So you want to leave Canada as soon as you can because they enforce laws here designed to keep people safe on the road? Great attitude.
I have a serious issue with cyclists who seem to think they're entitled to preferential treatment. When I ride, I act like a vehicle because I AM ONE. People like you give cyclists a bad name.
I can understand blowing through a stop sign in a residential area with no one around, but if you're anywhere with traffic you should always respect the rules of the road.
uh, it was a residential area, i don't think i've seen a stop sign and not lights in a non-residential area. where do i say i expect preferential treatment? who do i expect it from?
obviously i don't expect riding through red lights or riding across traffic to be allowed. but is the fine for riding through a stop sign in a near empty street really the same as riding through a red light?
i dont think you quite realize that accidents dont only effect the person who gets hit.
On November 15 2010 07:46 Manifesto7 wrote: You should have known the rules. Blowing stop signs on your bicycle puts you and other drivers in danger. How would you feel if someone had to swerve around you because you didn't stop and smashed up their car?
I cycle a lot, and stupid cyclists piss me off more than stupid drivers because they make the rest of us look bad.
why don't you think carefully again about what you're saying
stop signs are only abundant in neighborhoods. if a car was driving fast enough to swerve and smash up their car and get hurt, i wouldn't be the one to blame since the other driver also didn't stop at a stop sign
my partner was taking me to somewhere, and i was trying to keep up with him. i know traffic laws regarding cars plenty well, but i'm never even knew there were bicycle laws, since the last time i rode a bike was 10 years ago in edmonton and i never once encountered a law that i had to obey
i'm careful enough by myself to ride slowly and in bicycle lanes, stop at red lights and yield to pedestrians and cars on the road. I also look in all directions to see if cars are crossing. the road was almost empty, and it's ridiculous that I get fined for not stopping at a stop sign when I can tell that there are no cars that are going to cross
Um, not every stop sign is a four way stop. There are plenty of intersections with only two stop signs. Anyway, common sense should have prevailed here. Now you know
Ya a bike is considered a vehicle, so you have to follow the rules.
At the same time, I can't believe you got fined for this when no one ever does :/
On November 15 2010 07:23 Karthane wrote: If anything, it's more dangerous than a car because if you do get hit you will definetely be seriously hurt.
That doesn't make sense. Because he put himself at risk doesn't mean he should pay more for it. When you put others at risk is when you should get into trouble (i.e. blowing a stop sign in a car). edit: To be clear, I realize that you said it would be more dangerous. You're post just makes it sound like he should be in more trouble because of it.
a bike on the road is a vehicle and is bound by all the laws all motor vehicles are.
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
lol, that's pretty funny, especially since it's a stop sign on an empty road. I once went through a red light when there were no cars around, passing some guy waiting for the light to change on his bike. As I passed, I realized he was a cop, lol (facepalm). He didn't care though, or he didn't feel like chasing down a speedy youth on a bike.
I can understand the increased police vigilance in Toronto though, it gets pretty damn busy there. i don't bike there cause you're forced to bike on the road since there are so many pedestrians on the sidewalk, and the drivers can get really aggressive. Plus I don't wear a helmet, but want to live. Sidewalk racer here!
And to anyone who bikes, I feel it's necessary to put this out there. For the love of god, trust NO CARS EVER. Only took getting hit once by some guy blindly making a right trying to fit into traffic for me to lose all trust in everybody. I wait for eye contact making rights, guys making lefts, pretty much anywhere I could potentially be at risk.
Funny anecdote, I was standing, waiting for the light to turn green so I could cross, and for some reason the guy making a right though I was gonna cross, and slammed the brakes. At the same time, his ten year old daughter was scratching her face, and he finger ended up in her eye, and the dad was like, shit, sorry!
French police tried to catch me one day. Obviously their car can't go in small streets , and they dont run faster than me on my bike. I taunted them and laugh. One of the funniest moment of my life
On November 15 2010 08:12 Scorch wrote: You sure have some nerve bitching about the cop, the law and the whole country of Canada over your own obvious mistake. The fine was well deserved.
i'm bitching about toronto law, oh yeah. why is the fine for a bicycle so high when a bicycle traveling at less than 10m/s can do nothing near as much as a car can do?
so someone tell me now, say i'm running up to a stop sign at pretty high speed, am i gonna get fined for not stopping at the stop sign? cuz it's almost the exact fucking thing
Sure, that's if you don't cause the driver of a car to swerve into another car or onto the sidewalk. You got screwed, deal with it. Don't try to rationalize it with shitty analogies, especially ones with massive holes.
And the "you" I am referring to is you the idiotic person running through traffic (which is what you are implying) and you the person on a bike.
I'd say you have a good chance to get the fine reduced, but it's up to you.
i'm not trying to rationalize it with an analogy. i'm asking a serious question. will i get fined for running on the sidewalk and ignoring stop signs if i see there are no fucking cars riding my way?
people are pissing on me because they expect everyone to know the law; and I only got my bike for 3 days, I never drive or even ride a bike since I came to toronto, and I didn't even know or expect there to be rules for cyclists. the guy who was with me rode his bike for past 2 years also didn't know. probably 90% of the people i am acquainted with probably won't know the rule.
if i knew the rule of course i would read and obey it, that's why i don't drive because i can't be bothered to study the rules. i didn't expect there to be a law governing cycling and that's what i'm complaining about
It would be impossible to enforce law and order if ignorance of a law excused you from obeying it. You unknowingly broke a reasonable law, and you have to just accept that for what it is. It's okay to be frustrated that you didn't know the law, but it's not the government's job to inform you of every law you could conceivably break.
On November 15 2010 07:20 saltywet wrote: yeah, so i was riding down a nearly empty street with a friend and a cop busted us for not stopping A BYCICLE at a stop sign.
i just got the bicycle 3 days ago (i dont drive), i was following my friend and i had no idea that in toronto bicycles have to stop at stop sign
the cop stopped us, took 20 minutes (a duration in which 3 other bicycles passed by, not stopping at red light) and gave us each a 110$ ticket (SAME GODDAM FINE AS A FUCKING CAR).
this is so garbage, and for this reason im leaving this country as soon as i graduate. people who want to come to toronto, don't. I bet in china i can ride my fucking bicycle through a red light in the highest traffic intersection at rush hour and not get fined 1 RMB.
edit:: realized i made a typing mistake, we didnt rush a red light, we didn't stop at a STOP SIGN
i wouldn't ever rush through a red light, but in toronto theres like a million stop signs and if we get fined for not stopping at a stop sign, i rather stop biking and just ride an unenvironmentally friendly car
Even after your edit there is nothing in here about it being a residential area, so stop replying to posts saying that it's a residential area so you should be fine because you never said that. Also you now say it's a stop sign, BUT you never say it's a 4 way stop. There's plenty roads that have stop signs for one road but not the cross street.
the most unfair part is where a few other cyclists doing the same thing did not get caught. otherwise everything else seems justified (although the fine amount seems a little too high).
On November 15 2010 07:20 saltywet wrote: yeah, so i was riding down a nearly empty street with a friend and a cop busted us for not stopping A BYCICLE at a stop sign.
i just got the bicycle 3 days ago (i dont drive), i was following my friend and i had no idea that in toronto bicycles have to stop at stop sign
the cop stopped us, took 20 minutes (a duration in which 3 other bicycles passed by, not stopping at red light) and gave us each a 110$ ticket (SAME GODDAM FINE AS A FUCKING CAR).
this is so garbage, and for this reason im leaving this country as soon as i graduate. people who want to come to toronto, don't. I bet in china i can ride my fucking bicycle through a red light in the highest traffic intersection at rush hour and not get fined 1 RMB.
edit:: realized i made a typing mistake, we didnt rush a red light, we didn't stop at a STOP SIGN
i wouldn't ever rush through a red light, but in toronto theres like a million stop signs and if we get fined for not stopping at a stop sign, i rather stop biking and just ride an unenvironmentally friendly car
Even after your edit there is nothing in here about it being a residential area, so stop replying to posts saying that it's a residential area so you should be fine because you never said that. Also you now say it's a stop sign, BUT you never say it's a 4 way stop. There's plenty roads that have stop signs for one road but not the cross street.
uh.. what?
i'm not familiar with traffic terminology, and i don't know how anything you said changes the premises of what happened, but let me make it clear
the street we were riding down was a straight street, there are houses on both sides of the road. i barely saw the stop sign, since there were cars parked on my right, and it was a small intersection. Thinking nothing of it and following my partner who was 3-4 meters ahead of me, and seeing no cars driving on either side of the intersection, I followed my partner and seconds later, a patrol car stopped us.
I don't know whether it's a fourway stop, I just know there were pedestrian walk lights not on our side of the intersection, and there was a bicycle lane and parking lane, and it was a residential area since all of the buildings down that street were houses
In Colorado legally speaking a bicycle is another vehicle and thusly has to adhere to the traffic laws that apply to them. Ive gotten tickets before regarding running stop signs too. If you are going to be riding often you should look up the laws in your area and get a map of streets that are legal for bikes to be on (in Fort Collins some roads prohibit bikes completely).
I don't really feel bad for you. Countless people, along residential streets, have had serious injury in biking related accidents that could have all been avoided. These same people, after serious injury, go on and attempt to sue for damages. Just because you didn't get owned this time, doesn't mean it can't happen. Personally, the officer is probably being hypersensitive (a warning probably would have been fine) but your attitude in this thread seems it may have been warranted as you probably would have learned nothing. At least I know you'll be safer next time you're out riding.
On November 15 2010 09:33 McDonalds wrote: One less reckless person on the streets of Toronto, I guess.
Only about a hundred thousand left to deal with.
Is that the number for honkongnese in canada? Just wondering here.
thats totally racist. i grew up in edmonton, yo.
On November 15 2010 10:00 Amnesia wrote: learn 2 bike imo
and learn to read. I know how to bike, and I'm not reckless. I was just uninformed of the law.
And ignorance of the law is not a defense in breaking it. Learn 2 bike comment is not learn how to pedal but learn how to be a person on the road.
and i'm not defending myself. I did break the law unknowingly. I am not reckless. I care about my safety and I care about others, you're all assuming what kind of person I am just because of me crossing a stop sign. I went through it because there was no one crossing. I'm complaining that it's unfair that cycling has same offense as a car
Hmmm pay a $110 fine and stop bitching about laws designed to protect me, OR, continue ignoring the basic road rules and potentially die 30 years prematurely in an accident. I know which one I would choose.
Safety first bro. There's a lot of thought that goes into the placement of stop signs. Just because you think it might be safe doesn't mean that it always is.
You're unbelievable. You did something illegal and you pay for it. What is so hard to understand?
Your complaints change with each post, too. Ignorance is no excuse. It doesn't matter how many cars were around. It doesn't matter that it was a residential area. It doesn't matter that it was a 4-way stop.
Learn the road rules before making yourself look like a moron.
On November 15 2010 10:17 fabiano wrote: I'm shocked with the amount of people who defend this absurd law in here lol
Pay 110 bucks for not stopping at a stop sign riding A BIKE? I mean, seriously, wtf...
But if the law is there, the policeman has not the right, but the duty to enforce it.
Hospital expenses, legal fees could be in excess of 110 if he gets owned while biking...
just the insurance can be well over 1000 if you crash in a car. so.... your point is somewhat invalid
On November 15 2010 10:38 faseman wrote: You're unbelievable. You did something illegal and you pay for it. What is so hard to understand?
Your complaints change with each post, too. Ignorance is no excuse. It doesn't matter how many cars were around. It doesn't matter that it was a residential area. It doesn't matter that it was a 4-way stop.
Learn the road rules before making yourself look like a moron.
it's hard to understand why there's such a strict law governing cycling. I did do something illegal and I'm not complaining about paying for it, I'm complaining about why there is such a law in the first place (not stopping at stop signs in residential areas) and why the fine is the same as a car.
I wasn't informed of it, and for the previous two days before today, I saw people riding bikes into 1 way roads, and tonnes of people riding through stop signs.
for a person who's never ridden a bicycle in toronto, what's so hard for people like you to understand that a rider like me would assume that there's no law governing cycling?
As a driver, I find many cyclists pay insufficient attention to traffic safety. Cyclists must follow the same laws as drivers of other vehicles. This includes stopping at stop signs
I bet in china i can ride my fucking bicycle through a red light in the highest traffic intersection at rush hour and not get fined 1 RMB.
In the more developed areas of China like Beijing you may join pedestrians in "wedging" their way through traffic. However should you go to some rural areas, particularly in Western China, traffic rules more closely approximate a free-for-all (e.g. buses driving in the middle of the road with oncoming traffic flowing into the wrong lane).
On November 15 2010 10:39 TossFloss wrote: As a driver, I find many cyclists pay insufficient attention to traffic safety. Cyclists must follow the same laws as drivers of other vehicles. This includes stopping at stop signs
I bet in china i can ride my fucking bicycle through a red light in the highest traffic intersection at rush hour and not get fined 1 RMB.
In the more developed areas of China like Beijing you may join pedestrians in "wedging" their way through traffic. However should you go to some rural areas, particularly in Western China, traffic rules more closely approximate a free-for-all (e.g. buses driving in the middle of the road with oncoming traffic flowing into the wrong lane).
Yup definitely agree with this... even as a cyclist you're not immune to stop signs and the like. 110 bucks isn't really that big a deal when you got burnt for a law that's designed to protect you. When I ride my bike if anything I'm more careful about stop signs and shit...
On November 15 2010 10:39 saltywet wrote: it's hard to understand why there's such a strict law governing cycling. I did do something illegal and I'm not complaining about paying for it, I'm complaining about why there is such a law in the first place (not stopping at stop signs in residential areas) and why the fine is the same as a car.
I wasn't informed of it, and for the previous two days before today, I saw people riding bikes into 1 way roads, and tonnes of people riding through stop signs.
for a person who's never ridden a bicycle in toronto, what's so hard for people like you to understand that a rider like me would assume that there's no law governing cycling?
It doesn't matter that other people did it.
Come on man....how many times do people have to tell you that ignorance is no excuse.
Honestly you were stupid. You do know you can avoid these things by biking on the sidewalk when you come to a red light (obviously won't work if it's illegal to bike on the sidewalk ... like in Chicago)?
I dunno why you would risk something like that unless you were absolutely sure no one was watching.
Wow that blows 110 $ sounds completely ridiculous. Everyone here drives a bike here drunk as fuck without lights and noone ever gets fined, then again my city is like 90% college students.
As an avid cyclist, I'm glad people who are uneducated in bicycle laws get fined so they can be educated. Traffic laws are not only for the cyclists' safety, but for pedestrians as well. I live in NY, which has a rich cycling culture, and even though most cyclists follow the traffic laws, you have no idea how many car/bicycle and bicycle/pedestrian accidents every year. This includes both residential and high traffic areas.
Hopefully now that you got fined, you will at least try to understand some traffic laws so that future accidents can be avoided.
On November 15 2010 10:39 saltywet wrote: it's hard to understand why there's such a strict law governing cycling. I did do something illegal and I'm not complaining about paying for it, I'm complaining about why there is such a law in the first place (not stopping at stop signs in residential areas) and why the fine is the same as a car.
I wasn't informed of it, and for the previous two days before today, I saw people riding bikes into 1 way roads, and tonnes of people riding through stop signs.
for a person who's never ridden a bicycle in toronto, what's so hard for people like you to understand that a rider like me would assume that there's no law governing cycling?
It doesn't matter that other people did it.
Come on man....how many times do people have to tell you that ignorance is no excuse.
uh yes it does matter. how else are people going to learn about the law? to drive a car, you get a drivers license and learn about the law. you might as well require cyclists to pass a cyclist law test no matter how much common sense it requires. of course you can go online to learn about the law, but there are so many people that will assume that there is no law.
the only thing about ignorance i'm using is to explain why i did what i did. I'm not using it to excuse my actions. again, i think that 110$ is too strict for a cyclist to break a rule. espescially since my bike cost only 50$.
On November 15 2010 10:53 lac29 wrote: Honestly you were stupid. You do know you can avoid these things by biking on the sidewalk when you come to a red light (obviously won't work if it's illegal to bike on the sidewalk ... like in Chicago)?
I dunno why you would risk something like that unless you were absolutely sure no one was watching.
i didnt know about the law, which explains why i did it.
cycling laws i just found out: no cycling into 1 way streets safety lights working bell no cycling on sidewalks no cycling on wet streets stopping at red lights is obvious, even pedestrians have to obey this
1. Break the law. 2. Blame a cop for doing his job. 3. Blame the country. 4. Make a whine thread on TL about how Toronto is a terrible place because they have actual traffic laws which encourage safety and don't allow you to do retarded shit like ride bicycles through red lights and get yourself killed. 5. Leave country - get self killed in country which does allow ridiculous shit.
On November 15 2010 09:44 29 fps wrote: the most unfair part is where a few other cyclists doing the same thing did not get caught. otherwise everything else seems justified (although the fine amount seems a little too high).
Ignorance is no excuse. People keep telling you this, but you keep shouting you didn't know. Do you need to be told of every little law that exists before it becomes enforceable for you? Did someone have to tell you that selling expired milk is illegal? How about peeing in public? Where would you draw the line?
Also, you keep saying that you saw the intersection was clear and no cars were coming, but somehow a police car saw what you did and pulled you over. So I don't really know what to believe. Your story keeps changing, about red lights, stop signs, neighborhoods, etc.
$110 is excessive, but I get charged $45 for not moving my car for weekly street cleaning, no matter how clean the street is. And I'm relatively lucky since in other parts of the city they clean each side of the street twice/week instead of once where I live.
And who knows what your point is about traffic in China? I sure don't. You've lived in Canada for at least 10 years it seems and never figured out that all vehicles have to follow traffic laws. I think you should blame your parents either for not teaching you the specific law or failing to teach you common sense.
On November 15 2010 11:16 Subversion wrote: 1. Break the law. 2. Blame a cop for doing his job. 3. Blame the country. 4. Make a whine thread on TL about how Toronto is a terrible place because they have actual traffic laws which encourage safety and don't allow you to do retarded shit like ride bicycles through red lights and get yourself killed. 5. Leave country - get self killed in country which does allow ridiculous shit.
1. I broke the law 2. I didn't blame the cop 3. I complain about the country's stupid laws 4. Toronto is an overrated place in general, having lived here for past two years. With the discovery of this new stupid law I conclude that even I underestimated how crap this city is. 5. Leave country, live in a place where I don't even need a bike to get to anywhere I need to in under 30 minutes
On November 15 2010 11:22 Cauld wrote: Ignorance is no excuse. People keep telling you this, but you keep shouting you didn't know. Do you need to be told of every little law that exists before it becomes enforceable for you? Did someone have to tell you that selling expired milk is illegal? How about peeing in public? Where would you draw the line?
Also, you keep saying that you saw the intersection was clear and no cars were coming, but somehow a police car saw what you did and pulled you over. So I don't really know what to believe. Your story keeps changing, about red lights, stop signs, neighborhoods, etc.
$110 is excessive, but I get charged $45 for not moving my car for weekly street cleaning, no matter how clean the street is. And I'm relatively lucky since in other parts of the city they clean each side of the street twice/week instead of once where I live.
And who knows what your point is about traffic in China? I sure don't. You've lived in Canada for at least 10 years it seems and never figured out that all vehicles have to follow traffic laws. I think you should blame your parents either for not teaching you the specific law or failing to teach you common sense.
peeing in public is against the law? I keep saying that I'm not using my ignorance to excuse my crime, but people like you keep bringing it up and say I am. I'm now in agreement that what I did is wrong, and I've learned my lesson. I don't agree though that there aren't methods to educate people like me about such a big law, and I don't agree that bikes should have such a heavy fine. Either make bike fines 35$ or make car fines 500$.
and yeah, the intersection was clear and no cars were coming, I didnt even see the police car so the car must have been parked near the side. I'm sticking with one story, stop signs, driving down a street with residential houses on the side all the way down, crossing a stop sign at an intersection, no red/green lights down the road.
I've lived in toronto for 2 years, and I've always walked for 80 minutes, or taken the subway for 30 minutes, or had a friend drive me. And I used common sense, previous two days I rode my bike, I saw people not stopping at stop signs. Clearly you can still insist that I'm not using common sense, uh but that would make me deduce that stop signs only applied to cars
I dont see why your complaining you broke the law(if you think that law is stupid doesnt matter you still broke it).The cop was doing his job you shouldnt be complaining about the cop who wrote you the ticket its the cops that dont are the problem they make people think they can get away with stuff like this.
On November 15 2010 11:42 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Lol kinda funny I just got a speeding ticket today. Not exactly same as a bike but...funny to see a fined blog right after I get the ticket
kinda ridiculous, but I bet that my not-stopping-at-stop-sign ticket costs more than your speeding ticket
On November 15 2010 11:42 Zapdos_Smithh wrote: Lol kinda funny I just got a speeding ticket today. Not exactly same as a bike but...funny to see a fined blog right after I get the ticket
kinda ridiculous, but I bet that my not-stopping-at-stop-sign ticket costs more than your speeding ticket
Mine was more expensive actually. He WAS about to give me 197 but reduced it to 138 cuz there was nobody on the road + it was 3 lanes.
I live in Vancouver btw where speeding and parking tickets can get up to 300 easily.
The cop did you a favor. Whether you're walking, biking, or driving; blowing through an intersection is the worst thing you can do. It doesn't matter how sure you are of the situation, there's always something there you might not notice - and in your own words, you didn't even notice the cop car. Now imagine a car that's going significantly faster and has only seconds to react to you popping out of nowhere because of all the cars parked on the street? Its all just examples I know, but think of the consequences if something bad did happened.
Now, if you do want to fight the ticket, just look up the law described by the offense. In the middle of the ticket, should say something like "DID COMMIT THE OFFENSE OF / CONTRARY TO". Google up that law and entry and read it. If it applies to bicycles, and the wording should be clear enough, then pay the fine. If you do goto court, I doubt you will win, and even if the fine is reduced, you are admitting to it, and you'll get an offense entered against you in your criminal record.
On November 15 2010 11:13 saltywet wrote: no cycling on wet streets
Does this mean what I think it means?
If you are out cycling and then it rains you are breaking the law O_O ?
The F.... ?
in the case of heavy rain, you have to walk your bike. I honestly dont think this law is enforced though, I've seen many bikers ride in rain.
Again, it makes sense. But how many people know of this law, and how many people actually follow it?
On November 15 2010 12:00 a176 wrote: The cop did you a favor. Whether you're walking, biking, or driving; blowing through an intersection is the worst thing you can do. It doesn't matter how sure you are of the situation, there's always something there you might not notice - and in your own words, you didn't even notice the cop car. Now imagine a car that's going significantly faster and has only seconds to react to you popping out of nowhere because of all the cars parked on the street? Its all just examples I know, but think of the consequences if something bad did happened.
Now, if you do want to fight the ticket, just look up the law described by the offense. In the middle of the ticket, should say something like "DID COMMIT THE OFFENSE OF / CONTRARY TO". Google up that law and entry and read it. If it applies to bicycles, and the wording should be clear enough, then pay the fine. If you do goto court, I doubt you will win, and even if the fine is reduced, you are admitting to it, and you'll get an offense entered against you in your criminal record.
Okay, let me make it clear that I have understood I broke the law.
This is what I'm complaining about (I just went online to find the law that I broke):
Tickets issued to cyclists: Disobey Stop Sign – Fail to Stop Set Fine: 85.00$ Court Fee: 5.00$ Victim Fine: 20.00$ Total: 110.00$
Tickets issued to cars: Disobey Stop Sign – Fail to Stop Set Fine: 85.00$ Total: 85.00$
(Yes, cars are exempt of the court fee and victim fine, so before anyone bashes me more, give me a valid justification why cars have lighter fines than cyclists, for the same crime)
IMO if you break a law, there's nothing to complain about afterwards.
This is with the assumption that you know the law and its consequences. If you know there is a rule and the punishment for not following the rule, you can't break the rule first, and then complain about the punishment later.
Of course, I understand that you probably didn't know the fine would be so ridiculous. However, as the government expects you to know 100% of the laws (lol so impossible), it's kind of implied that they expect you to know the punishments associated with breaking the laws too. If that makes sense.
On November 15 2010 12:12 saltywet wrote: (Yes, cars are exempt of the court fee and victim fine, so before anyone bashes me more, give me a valid justification why cars have lighter fines than cyclists, for the same crime)
Because if a car runs a stop sign and gets hit by a car, nobody gets hurt. If a cyclist runs a stop sign and get hits by a car, he dies.
Car drivers are mandated to have insurance (car gets damages so car insurance). Bicyclists are not mandated to have health insurance (person rather than car is injured).
No insurance + hospital emergency = cost to state.
Ergo. Victim fee is to help pay for this cost.
*bows*
(I'm guessing that's what they were going for. I think it's pretty stupid but the law is the law :/)
I'm glad you were fined. Maybe next time you wont put yourselves and others at so much risk. Consider what would've happened if a car swerved to miss you and slammed into a tree or another car. How much do yo think that would've cost in medical bills and/or auto repair? Consider yourself lucky it was only $110 this time.
You know what ... you should post up in the Life Hack thread to warn ppl to look up their local bike laws. I doubt most people know their local bike laws and stuff like riding at night without a red blinkie or headlight will get you a ticket as well as running a red light. I can somewhat feel for you for not checking local bike laws since it's just not particularly well-known among the general public since biking isn't that mainstream.
My dad got the same fine in downtown Vancouver. The dumbest part about it was that it was a 3 way stop, and he was going straight. He never even crossed a street. 100 dollars or so was his fine. The cops here have to keep up with a quota, so i suppose that giving every passing biker a ticket is an easy way of matching it.
On November 15 2010 14:21 canucks12 wrote: My dad got the same fine in downtown Vancouver. The dumbest part about it was that it was a 3 way stop, and he was going straight. He never even crossed a street. 100 dollars or so was his fine. The cops here have to keep up with a quota, so i suppose that giving every passing biker a ticket is an easy way of matching it.
You don't complain about laws after you break them. That's just stupid. Even though it's impractical, you are expected to know the punishments for breaking a law, just as you are expected to know the laws in the first place.
Therefore, it is assumed, when you break the law, that you are knowledgeably accepting the consequences. Arguing at this point is useless.
I went to school in like the number one bicycle commuter place in the country (USA). So I'm not surprised at all by this, especially since its a city. Some officers give you a warning if you never knew.... but some officers are douches. lol
Yeah, I agree the ticket is stupid for cyclists. A warning was probably better suited.
The other ridiculous thing is not allowing biking on side walks... When the sidewalk is devoid of pedestrians (e.g. outside of downtown core), why can't I bike on the sidewalk again? RIDICULOUS!
On November 15 2010 14:21 canucks12 wrote: My dad got the same fine in downtown Vancouver. The dumbest part about it was that it was a 3 way stop, and he was going straight. He never even crossed a street. 100 dollars or so was his fine. The cops here have to keep up with a quota, so i suppose that giving every passing biker a ticket is an easy way of matching it.
You don't complain about laws after you break them. That's just stupid. Even though it's impractical, you are expected to know the punishments for breaking a law, just as you are expected to know the laws in the first place.
Therefore, it is assumed, when you break the law, that you are knowledgeably accepting the consequences. Arguing at this point is useless.
We can complain about the laws whenever we know about it. I dont accept the consequences, that's why i'm requesting a trial
On November 15 2010 11:16 Subversion wrote: 1. Break the law. 2. Blame a cop for doing his job. 3. Blame the country. 4. Make a whine thread on TL about how Toronto is a terrible place because they have actual traffic laws which encourage safety and don't allow you to do retarded shit like ride bicycles through red lights and get yourself killed. 5. Leave country - get self killed in country which does allow ridiculous shit.
1. I broke the law 2. I didn't blame the cop 3. I complain about the country's stupid laws 4. Toronto is an overrated place in general, having lived here for past two years. With the discovery of this new stupid law I conclude that even I underestimated how crap this city is. 5. Leave country, live in a place where I don't even need a bike to get to anywhere I need to in under 30 minutes
On November 15 2010 11:22 Cauld wrote: Ignorance is no excuse. People keep telling you this, but you keep shouting you didn't know. Do you need to be told of every little law that exists before it becomes enforceable for you? Did someone have to tell you that selling expired milk is illegal? How about peeing in public? Where would you draw the line?
Also, you keep saying that you saw the intersection was clear and no cars were coming, but somehow a police car saw what you did and pulled you over. So I don't really know what to believe. Your story keeps changing, about red lights, stop signs, neighborhoods, etc.
$110 is excessive, but I get charged $45 for not moving my car for weekly street cleaning, no matter how clean the street is. And I'm relatively lucky since in other parts of the city they clean each side of the street twice/week instead of once where I live.
And who knows what your point is about traffic in China? I sure don't. You've lived in Canada for at least 10 years it seems and never figured out that all vehicles have to follow traffic laws. I think you should blame your parents either for not teaching you the specific law or failing to teach you common sense.
peeing in public is against the law? I keep saying that I'm not using my ignorance to excuse my crime, but people like you keep bringing it up and say I am. I'm now in agreement that what I did is wrong, and I've learned my lesson. I don't agree though that there aren't methods to educate people like me about such a big law, and I don't agree that bikes should have such a heavy fine. Either make bike fines 35$ or make car fines 500$.
and yeah, the intersection was clear and no cars were coming, I didnt even see the police car so the car must have been parked near the side. I'm sticking with one story, stop signs, driving down a street with residential houses on the side all the way down, crossing a stop sign at an intersection, no red/green lights down the road.
I've lived in toronto for 2 years, and I've always walked for 80 minutes, or taken the subway for 30 minutes, or had a friend drive me. And I used common sense, previous two days I rode my bike, I saw people not stopping at stop signs. Clearly you can still insist that I'm not using common sense, uh but that would make me deduce that stop signs only applied to cars
I really don't understand how you think being made to stop at a sign that says "stop" *gasp* is a "stupid" law.
just pay the fine man, stop being so damn petty. I'm sure if you politely explain that it was a mistake you could get the fine reduced, instead of being all aggro and having such a shit attitude as if you've been wronged somehow.
On November 15 2010 15:04 lutarez wrote: Yeah, I agree the ticket is stupid for cyclists. A warning was probably better suited.
The other ridiculous thing is not allowing biking on side walks... When the sidewalk is devoid of pedestrians (e.g. outside of downtown core), why can't I bike on the sidewalk again? RIDICULOUS!
Seriously? Person standing behind a telephone pole steps out and gets run into by a bike going 30k/h? Pedestrians afraid of using the sidewalk because people get used to riding their bikes there? Cyclists not comfortable navigating the streets when they actually need to and causing safety hazards?
Bikes just aren't an option in some places, especially when cars are going at a high rate of speed. You either walk, drive, or take public transit. If you do break the law and ride on the sidewalk, then it's your choice but you shouldn't be surprised if you get fined
Of course cyclists get the same fine as cars, they use the same street. In fact, I'm sure cops prefer cars hitting each other so that no one gets hurt, but if a car runs into a cyclist then the cyclist is almost always seriously hurt. In that stead, you can argue that the fine should be even higher for cyclists.
On November 15 2010 14:21 canucks12 wrote: My dad got the same fine in downtown Vancouver. The dumbest part about it was that it was a 3 way stop, and he was going straight. He never even crossed a street. 100 dollars or so was his fine. The cops here have to keep up with a quota, so i suppose that giving every passing biker a ticket is an easy way of matching it.
You don't complain about laws after you break them. That's just stupid. Even though it's impractical, you are expected to know the punishments for breaking a law, just as you are expected to know the laws in the first place.
Therefore, it is assumed, when you break the law, that you are knowledgeably accepting the consequences. Arguing at this point is useless.
We can complain about the laws whenever we know about it. I dont accept the consequences, that's why i'm requesting a trial
Have fun trying.
Afaik in most countries(so prolly yours too) the minute you get on the road on/in a vehicle you are supposed to know the traffic laws. So in the eyes of the law it is ALWAYS your fault if you break one law even if you didn't know about it or think it's stupid
Eyyyy that sucks man ! 110 dolars ? i would start a new life thats crazy... yea and when someone stole something from you and you call cops they will say you that they have better things to do than your solve your stupid problems ! hate this
I don't get it. You say the street was clear yet there was a cop car on it? Or was it a bicycle cop? I am wondering how you reacted to the cop when he flagged you down. Did you get angry at him before he gave you the ticket or after?
Bicycles on the street have to obey traffic laws, I don't even bike to work just in parks and I know this. Oh and if you live in Toronto and someday use a car, dont go 50km above the speed limit or it is a $10,000 fine and your car gets impounded. (Don't live in Toronto just visited for training courses)
I just got a ticket two hours ago for going 18 over the speed limit on the highway. First speeding ticket for me. Sux balls. I have a radar/laser detector too... Which did not go off when the cop claimed he clocked me with his laser going 18 over...
it's not stupid at all. the only way to ensure safety on the streets is to follow the laws. of course 99.9999% of the time you could burn through the intersection and not get hurt -- that's not the point. if cyclists want to be treated like vehicles and use the roads, they have to follow the laws.
i talked with quite a couple of people i know today about what happened
all of the asians/non-drivers/non-cyclists reacted the way i did at first, that they thought it was a ridiculous law.
the people i talked to that were drivers though, all reacted the same way that many people here reacted, that it was dangerous and unresponsible for the cyclist and that a punishment should be needed. However, they all agreed that the fine for a bicycle was too much and that the country should make the biking laws clear to cyclists since there are so many laws regarding cycling that aren't obvious
many of these people are more intelligent and reasonable people. this isn't about unfair laws anymore. its funny how 20+ of the people i talked to irl were able to discuss with reasonable arguments to why they think what they did, and how only 3 people in this thread were able to do so eloquently
On November 16 2010 08:17 Craton wrote: Three? That's your completely biased opinion. There are far more than that who expressed everything just fine.
no, there were only three people that read the thread and showed me facts that i was wrong, and everyone else came in here just to throw in their 2 cents
I parked in the last, very far away parking lot on purpose(wanted to walk with a chick), come back and see a ticket. Double parked. There was nobody around me, it's the farthest parking space..
fucking guards were really on patrol that day, fuck.
edit: not to mention I ripped it to shreds and threw it in the wind heheh ;D
On November 16 2010 07:22 saltywet wrote: i talked with quite a couple of people i know today about what happened
all of the asians/non-drivers/non-cyclists reacted the way i did at first, that they thought it was a ridiculous law.
the people i talked to that were drivers though, all reacted the same way that many people here reacted, that it was dangerous and unresponsible for the cyclist and that a punishment should be needed. However, they all agreed that the fine for a bicycle was too much and that the country should make the biking laws clear to cyclists since there are so many laws regarding cycling that aren't obvious
many of these people are more intelligent and reasonable people. this isn't about unfair laws anymore. its funny how 20+ of the people i talked to irl were able to discuss with reasonable arguments to why they think what they did, and how only 3 people in this thread were able to do so eloquently
Well then you know not to post a blog on TL anymore. Score one for real life people! I'm glad you could report back to us about how bad we did.
Do you normally survey the 20+ people in your life about the situations that occur to you each day, or was this just a special case? And what is the correlation between Asian and non-driving/non-cycling people? Do you think white non-drivers and non-cyclists would have a different point of view?
On November 16 2010 07:22 saltywet wrote: i talked with quite a couple of people i know today about what happened
all of the asians/non-drivers/non-cyclists reacted the way i did at first, that they thought it was a ridiculous law.
the people i talked to that were drivers though, all reacted the same way that many people here reacted, that it was dangerous and unresponsible for the cyclist and that a punishment should be needed. However, they all agreed that the fine for a bicycle was too much and that the country should make the biking laws clear to cyclists since there are so many laws regarding cycling that aren't obvious
many of these people are more intelligent and reasonable people. this isn't about unfair laws anymore. its funny how 20+ of the people i talked to irl were able to discuss with reasonable arguments to why they think what they did, and how only 3 people in this thread were able to do so eloquently
Well then you know not to post a blog on TL anymore. Score one for real life people! I'm glad you could report back to us about how bad we did.
Do you normally survey the 20+ people in your life about the situations that occur to you each day, or was this just a special case? And what is the correlation between Asian and non-driving/non-cycling people? Do you think white non-drivers and non-cyclists would have a different point of view?
yeah... i think you're being sarcastic so i'm gonna ignore you. you can close this blog btw
On November 16 2010 07:22 saltywet wrote: i talked with quite a couple of people i know today about what happened
all of the asians/non-drivers/non-cyclists reacted the way i did at first, that they thought it was a ridiculous law.
the people i talked to that were drivers though, all reacted the same way that many people here reacted, that it was dangerous and unresponsible for the cyclist and that a punishment should be needed. However, they all agreed that the fine for a bicycle was too much and that the country should make the biking laws clear to cyclists since there are so many laws regarding cycling that aren't obvious
many of these people are more intelligent and reasonable people. this isn't about unfair laws anymore. its funny how 20+ of the people i talked to irl were able to discuss with reasonable arguments to why they think what they did, and how only 3 people in this thread were able to do so eloquently
Well then you know not to post a blog on TL anymore. Score one for real life people! I'm glad you could report back to us about how bad we did.
Do you normally survey the 20+ people in your life about the situations that occur to you each day, or was this just a special case? And what is the correlation between Asian and non-driving/non-cycling people? Do you think white non-drivers and non-cyclists would have a different point of view?
yeah... i think you're being sarcastic so i'm gonna ignore you. you can close this blog btw
EPT
I hate people like you.
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C-DGebIJaNM/THchc6a-M9I/AAAAAAAABNM/tEHGQW8VKwA/s1600/HTA+Bicycle+Violations+Sample.png)
