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(it's late, I might not make any sense here, but meh.)
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!" or "I hope Blizzard/Gretech wins the lawsuit, and then charges them more!".
I don't think these people really understand WHAT will happen if BW dies, in the context of SC2, since that's the only thing the majority of the newer community cares about.
BW is, currently, the ONLY proven, competitive (and don't say SC2 to me, SC2 is only a few months from release, definately not proven competitive) RTS in the world. If it dies? Then SC2 will have a monopoly over RTS and, as such, esports - and what happens when a company has a monopoly? They can do WHATEVER the hell they want. Charge you £50 for an expansion? WHY SURE, it's not like we have any competitors!
Blizzard has already shown us that WILL exert this kind of monopoly by giving Gretech licensing rights and charging for broadcasting SC2 - all this is leading to further and further control by Blizzard (including bnet without LAN = no private servers and, if private servers come for tournaments only, I'm betting Blizzard will charge even more); and, eventually, it will lead up to the point where sustaining SC2 expansions is not profitable any more - then, because they were let to have this kind of monopoly, Blizzard can just completely pull the plug on tournaments - it's happening with BW, and it WILL happen with WC4 or whatever game they want to market as their new "ESPORTS!" game. Likewise, if Blizzard has complete control and a monopoly over RTS esports (remember no private servers and no LAN), they can just release a new patch, which completely fucks over balance or results in boring gameplay, when they want to bring out WC4 or SC3 -- well, they don't have any competitors, after all!
Blind fanboyism won't work out. Blind fanboyism results in a game very much like WC3; whereby 1 race is completely knocked out at a pro level; yet, the fanbase kept hoping that Blizzard would release a promised balance patch - which never came. However, there was, and still is (?), nothing like WC3 - hence, why the fanbase clung to it.
"BUT BLIZZARD WON'T DO THIS!". They most certainly will. The Blizzard of the past isn't what it is today. When Activision merged, they have, in my eyes, taken a huge downturn, in to what I see as an anticompetitive company.
  
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I've seen your posts all over the BW forums, and they are the definition of blind fanboyism.
The concern I have for BW dying is not some Blizzard monopoly conspiracy theory, but that the 10 years of BW infrastructure--channels, teams, salaries, events--will crumble. There needs to be a slow and natural transition, if there is one at all.
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Calgary25986 Posts
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To be fair..
On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
BW is, currently, the ONLY proven, competitive (and don't say SC2 to me, SC2 is only a few months from release, definately not proven competitive) RTS in the world. If it dies? Then SC2 will have a monopoly over RTS and, as such, esports - and what happens when a company has a monopoly? They can do WHATEVER the hell they want. Charge you £50 for an expansion? WHY SURE, it's not like we have any competitors!
You talk about how BW is the only competitive RTS and if it dies then SC2 will have a monopoly over RTS, except for the part where BW and Blizzard and has a monopoly over the competitive RTS scene for years. Yeah they can charge us £50 for an expansion, but they could have done the exact same thing during Brood War's prime. If Brood War dies, there is no "shift in the RTS esports monopoly" - Blizzard has had it all along..
That being said too, having the "only competitive RTS" game doesn't mean they own the RTS market. People are still going to buy Age of Empires, and Company of Heroes, and Dawn of War, and Command and Conquer games regardless of what Blizzard does.
Also.. if Blizzard does completely ruin the competitive nature of Starcraft II because they are an anti-competitive company, that leaves the door open for any other game to step into the spotlight (and I'm sure there's not a developer/publisher out there who wouldn't want a piece of the pie like SCII holds). I know a lot of people love the game despite some of it's flaws, but if Blizzard comes out and starts trashing the competitive scene because they refuse to create new, balanced maps and completely thrash the balance of the game - then SCII will die as a competitive game and they won't "withhold" their monopoly.
Overall: Brood War eventually will run it's course, and players may transfer and the league may die, but Brood War as a game will never die. Besides, this topic has been discussed in a bazillion threads and it's the natural life cycle of esports and gaming in general. There's a reason people aren't playing Quake 1 or Halo 1 competitively anymore.
edit: Touching on another point, regardless if Blizzard came around and started selling the next two Starcraft II expansions for $100 each, I can guarantee you people would buy it regardless of how many they say wont - (anyone remember MW2 on PC and how everyone wasn't going to buy it due to the lack of private servers? That sure turned out hey?) - they will anyways, and that's the reason they start micro transactions, and selling maps, and selling low-content expansions, etc..
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My concern is that I think Blizzard makes eSports look very unattractive to investors when they are being so controlling over it. Who wants to put their money into something that is at the whim of Blizzard? Blizzard is proving themselves to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of those who've put their lives into eSports, so it sets a poor precedent for future negotiations they might make.
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On November 14 2010 10:56 Chef wrote:
My concern is that I think Blizzard makes eSports look very unattractive to investors when they are being so controlling over it. Who wants to put their money into something that is at the whim of Blizzard? Blizzard is proving themselves to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of those who've put their lives into eSports, so it sets a poor precedent for future negotiations they might make.
This is where I wish companies such as EA or Valve would step up and release a fantastic, well-balanced (of course not instantly but over time) RTS and fully support the esports community. To see a company pump money into tournaments, listen to the user base (it feels as though Blizzard has lost touch with its user base over the years), and really push the game into a competitive atmosphere.
By doing so, it'd force Blizzard to step up it's game and start being more pro-active with balance patches and listening to the community's feedback when it comes to issues such as balance, maps, and the Battle.net platform.
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I feel the same way as you, OP. I don't like the way SC2 fanboys and bandwagoners are completely disregarding BW and what it's done for competitive gaming either.
However, most of what you're saying is pretty baseless bordering absurd.
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On November 14 2010 11:02 Graham wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:56 Chef wrote:
My concern is that I think Blizzard makes eSports look very unattractive to investors when they are being so controlling over it. Who wants to put their money into something that is at the whim of Blizzard? Blizzard is proving themselves to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of those who've put their lives into eSports, so it sets a poor precedent for future negotiations they might make. This is where I wish companies such as EA or Valve would step up and release a fantastic, well-balanced (of course not instantly but over time) RTS and fully support the esports community. To see a company pump money into tournaments, listen to the user base (it feels as though Blizzard has lost touch with its user base over the years), and really push the game into a competitive atmosphere. By doing so, it'd force Blizzard to step up it's game and start being more pro-active with balance patches and listening to the community's feedback when it comes to issues such as balance, maps, and the Battle.net platform.
Well really, it's kind of odd for the creator of the game to set up the tournaments and pay for the prize pool to begin with... At least on this scale. I can't call it cheating, but lol... BW has sponsors that aren't Blizzard, and I think that says something about legitimacy as a sport.
Imagine I were a rich kid and I invented some game. "Okay, how can I make people play my game over the tried and true games that already exist and prosper... I know, I'll give a million dollars to the winner of a tournament for my game!" I can't read minds, but I'd say that's about the only reason any SC1 pros have switched over (who by and large aren't going to see anymore money in SC1 since the game is so hard). I'm sure Blizzard is hoping that their game will get popular enough to attract real sponsors, but this kind of method is a bit ugly to me.
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On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!"
I've seen this occasionally in BW forums but not enougth for it to bother me. Does this kind of statement pop up more in SC2 forums? I wouldn't know because i keep all the SC2 tabs closed =S.
These kinds of posts shouldn't worry anyone. I mean really... expressing the wish that BW will die and then claiming apathy...
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On November 14 2010 11:22 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!" I've seen this occasionally in BW forums but not enougth for it to bother me. Does this kind of statement pop up more in SC2 forums? I wouldn't know because i keep all the SC2 tabs closed =S. These kinds of posts shouldn't worry anyone. I mean really... expressing the wish that BW will die and then claiming apathy...
I don't visit the SC2 forums either (with the exception of the single player subforum occasionally), and so I didn't really care, but ever since every interview or translation gets bumped into the "Community News" section those threads end up a cesspool of insults (like the ones Garrl mentioned). Community News is kind of annoying in general, since it mixes both BW and SC2 and many people care for one and not the other. It makes sifting for news harder because now you check both BW/SC2 general and sift through community news, but thats another story for another time. To answer your question, yes I see those comments in community news in many of the bw translation threads that end up there (couldn't tell you about the sc2 threads there since I don't really know).
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A bit poorly written if you ask me...
You paint charging $50 for an expansion pack as a nightmare example? Come on, we all know 95+ % of this community would pay that for Heart of the Swarm. It's easily worth even more if you base the value on content and playtime.
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On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!".
Who has said this in all seriousness? I haven't heard anyone
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On November 14 2010 11:33 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!".
Who has said this in all seriousness? I haven't heard anyone
On November 14 2010 08:07 darmousseh wrote:
I hope gretech wins and then changes the terms to 200,000,000 won per season.
Who indeed.
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On November 14 2010 11:22 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!" I've seen this occasionally in BW forums but not enougth for it to bother me. Does this kind of statement pop up more in SC2 forums? I wouldn't know because i keep all the SC2 tabs closed =S. These kinds of posts shouldn't worry anyone. I mean really... expressing the wish that BW will die and then claiming apathy...
It appears on both forums, in both directions, and BW elitists claim ignorance as if the SC2 part of the community is the only one with idiots. I read "I wish Blizzard and SC2 would fail I don't care about it!" every damn day from the idiots from the BW side who wander over into the SC2 forums. Likewise I read ignorant SC2 fans trash talking the BW peeps.
I like both games, and both sides have retarded people who spout idiotic statements.
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People who reply to this need to keep in mind that this is all opinion, these aren't facts.
Just throwing that out there...
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My concern is blizz monopoly over sc2. They have complete control over sc2, even fan-made sc2 videos is owned by blizz. That's ridiculous.
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When and if BW dies, let this old veteran, pioneer of e-sports, die with the greatest honors a game could receive. Dying because of a lawsuit, killed by its own parents is something BW doesnt deserve.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:33 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!".
Who has said this in all seriousness? I haven't heard anyone
You'll undoubtedly find some if you sift through these threads. There's been a lot of trash talk from both sides, and I find a lot of it really rests on assumptions. If Blizzard wins AND BW takes a nosedive from there, THEN we can conclude that Blizzard killed BW. I say we follow Milkis' advice and see how this plays out before saying anything. SC2 fans who haven't experienced BW and BW fans who haven't experienced SC2 are simply giving heavily opinionated arguments all over the place, and it's no good for the community at all.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50532 Posts
Did you specifically link a post that I made or Quasar made.....because I've made my stance clear in all this shit anyway.I guess because of a lot of posts that I make are more in defense of blizzard than the defense of KeSPA you would all assume that I am more of an SC2 fanboy than a BW fanboy which is not true.
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On November 14 2010 11:17 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:02 Graham wrote:On November 14 2010 10:56 Chef wrote:
My concern is that I think Blizzard makes eSports look very unattractive to investors when they are being so controlling over it. Who wants to put their money into something that is at the whim of Blizzard? Blizzard is proving themselves to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of those who've put their lives into eSports, so it sets a poor precedent for future negotiations they might make. This is where I wish companies such as EA or Valve would step up and release a fantastic, well-balanced (of course not instantly but over time) RTS and fully support the esports community. To see a company pump money into tournaments, listen to the user base (it feels as though Blizzard has lost touch with its user base over the years), and really push the game into a competitive atmosphere. By doing so, it'd force Blizzard to step up it's game and start being more pro-active with balance patches and listening to the community's feedback when it comes to issues such as balance, maps, and the Battle.net platform. Well really, it's kind of odd for the creator of the game to set up the tournaments and pay for the prize pool to begin with... At least on this scale. I can't call it cheating, but lol... BW has sponsors that aren't Blizzard, and I think that says something about legitimacy as a sport. Imagine I were a rich kid and I invented some game. "Okay, how can I make people play my game over the tried and true games that already exist and prosper... I know, I'll give a million dollars to the winner of a tournament for my game!" I can't read minds, but I'd say that's about the only reason any SC1 pros have switched over (who by and large aren't going to see anymore money in SC1 since the game is so hard). I'm sure Blizzard is hoping that their game will get popular enough to attract real sponsors, but this kind of method is a bit ugly to me.
Well, SC2 is one of the first games ever released with E-sports in mind. I can imagine people at Blizzard sitting down and saying "okay, how can we make this game easy and fun to watch for viewers".
And besides, Sony Ericsson and Intel are sponsors for GSL?
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EPT
