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lol @ this. a blind fanboy complaining about blind fanboyism.
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On November 14 2010 11:46 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:33 happyness wrote:On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!".
Who has said this in all seriousness? I haven't heard anyone You'll undoubtedly find some if you sift through these threads. There's been a lot of trash talk from both sides, and I find a lot of it really rests on assumptions. If Blizzard wins AND BW takes a nosedive from there, THEN we can conclude that Blizzard killed BW. I say we follow Milkis' advice and see how this plays out before saying anything. SC2 fans who haven't experienced BW and BW fans who haven't experienced SC2 are simply giving heavily opinionated arguments all over the place, and it's no good for the community at all.
I don't know, waiting for something I love to die in the shadow of something I find mediocre isn't a fair shake for me, or any other BW fan. But we're vastly outnumbered nowadays and, let's be honest, our favorite site has its own SC2 team. The transition is obvious and it blows for people who find SC2 uninspiring.
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BW is, currently, the ONLY proven, competitive (and don't say SC2 to me, SC2 is only a few months from release, definately not proven competitive) RTS in the world.
Your whole post is about how are you against monopoly and yet you says that BW has the monopoly over competitive e-sports. So according to you, the past 10 years have been horrible for Esports because BW has the monopoly?
In any case, i do hope BW can survive especially because all the infrastructure and system it has put in are advanced and it will be a waste to see everything Esports related start from scratch again.
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A lot of what you post, here and in other sections of the forum, begin with things like "the general consensus is" or "i've seen a lot of people saying."
We need a [citation needed] tag for posts like yours.
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On November 14 2010 12:04 toadstool wrote:lol @ this. a blind fanboy complaining about blind fanboyism.
How is he a blind fanboy?
He is being objective about what was written in the blog, completely unbiased.
Get your head out of your ass before you post plz.
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If you see people saying they want BW to just die let me know it's not a comment we appreciate on here. This site has built everything it is with BW for people to just come in and make comments like that is ridiculous.
That said though I think most of your post is bullshit especially the price related part. Other games out there are usually played for like 20 hours before people stop touching them whereas Blizzard games can be enjoyed for thousands of hours of play and additional viewing pleasure. For them to charge more like OMG 50 pounds is not something that bothers me at all.
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On November 14 2010 12:08 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I don't know, waiting for something I love to die in the shadow of something I find mediocre isn't a fair shake for me, or any other BW fan. But we're vastly outnumbered nowadays and, let's be honest, our favorite site has its own SC2 team. The transition is obvious and it blows for people who find SC2 uninspiring.
Clearly the solution is to make the most of BW right now rather than waiting for it to die.
I've seen lots of games that I loved die, or deteriorate, or all my friends stop playing, or the community changes. It happens. Sometimes, you just gotta play until you can't. When there's no longer a moderated BW forum on TL people can start crying foul. Some trolling on the Internet? That's nothing, especially when it happens about equally on both sides.
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i dont know where people get this whole they will charge £50 for an expansion stuff... they already basically have an monopoly on subscription based MMO's with WoW and don't do it...... they have the only MMO based esport in the world and they do very well for themselves off it.
BW will die, it is inevitable. Whether it dies now or in two years it wont make any real difference to SC2 apart from how long the sc1 pros take to come over... and they're coming over fast atm. Most new sc2 players dont care if broodwar lives or dies, they might rage about stuff but in reality it doesnt effect them, the older players have moved on and look back with fond memories.
The only people who care are the die hard BW fans, thats the way its supposed to be. The fans determine how long a game lives not the developers, many games have great lvies after the developers check out, my fav game of all time was Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates which still is going years after the developers gave up on it, there are new community based mods and tourneys etc all the time, the game played now is nothing like the original, all new ship models, all new ships, all new maps etc..... BW will only die when the fans let it die.... so really stop moaning about blizz and sc2 and play the damn game you want to play! Thats how you keep it going.
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On November 14 2010 12:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
If you see people saying they want BW to just die let me know it's not a comment we appreciate on here. This site has built everything it is with BW for people to just come in and make comments like that is ridiculous.
That said though I think most of your post is bullshit especially the price related part. Other games out there are usually played for like 20 hours before people stop touching them whereas Blizzard games can be enjoyed for thousands of hours of play and additional viewing pleasure. For them to charge more like OMG 50 pounds is not something that bothers me at all.
hahaha spot on,
I mean blizzard is actually doing a lot of good things for the community (ehem except the balance issues ehem) They've already made pre paid cards so that the poor masses can play the game (look at SEA server, that will be filled with new players who couldn't afford the 60 dollar Sea version).
I also don't think BW will die as of the moment, might take more than that (gretech lawsuit) to finish off something so awesome.
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On November 14 2010 11:37 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:33 happyness wrote:On November 14 2010 10:34 Garrl wrote:
I've seen a lot of people saying "I wish BW would die and the proes would move on, I don't care about it!".
Who has said this in all seriousness? I haven't heard anyone Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 08:07 darmousseh wrote:
I hope gretech wins and then changes the terms to 200,000,000 won per season. Who indeed.
Oh man i just came across that post in that "final offer" thread. Disgusting really =="
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BW won't die. I'll still play! 
And I mean....you still get certain streams who are returning to the BW scene to play it again. I don't think the death of the teams and all of that stuff is enough to "kill" the game....
If anything, there are still a lot of SC fans who alternate between the games.
I do at least. >.>
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lol i hope you weren't referring to my post when you said "charge them more". I love watching brood war and was fine with kespa and ogn and mbc until the minute they decided to stop negotiating for IP rights. As a software developer myself I know how frustrating it can be when someone takes your IP and uses it for their personal gain. Software is not something you can "own", it is a license to use an executable file within a given terms of service. If you do not agree to these terms, then don't buy the game. One of the terms with starcraft is that you will not broadcast starcraft without the consent of blizzard. This is a very clear cut law that makes sense and not only is this a law in the US, but it is protected by international IP. Before, you had to go to every country and ask for IP rights, but now you can get the IP in one country, and by treaty that IP belongs in all countries.
Blizzard winning this lawsuit is significantly more important than any money that blizzard can make (which is frankly 0 after the effort they put into negotiations). Blizzard only wants to make sure that their IP rights are respected in korea. Blizzard has no desire to kill BW or force players to switch over. Blizzard knows that good players will play sc2 anyway, what blizzard does not want is to threaten the life of SC2. If blizzard does not sue mbc or ogn, then they might start casting sc2 leagues and cite the fact that they were able to run sc1 without any interruption. For blizzard, this lawsuit is more about protecting the sc2 brand than stopping BW.
As far as the perspective of MBC and OGN, they are ok with being sued because they know that if they lose, they can countersue kespa. If MBC loses, they will blame kespa for illegally selling liscences to a game they do not own, this will either result in a negotation, or in another lawsuit. Kespa has been approved by the ministry of culture, however, the ministry of culture is not neccesarily aware of the IP rights regarding broadcasting and probably just turned a blind eye.
I forsee 2 possible outcomes from this whole thing.
1. Blizzard gets an injunction, and then OGN and MBC agree to the terms previously presented to them. OGN and MBC go to kespa and negotiate a contract to keep the leagues going. Total downtime? 1 day.
2. Blizzard gets and injunction, OGN and MBC decide to suspend all of the leagues. They then go on a smear campaign against blizzard and try to explain their side in the media. Kespa then goes to blizzard and negotiates a sub-liscening contract for starcraft BW only and agrees to limit the number of subliscences and other terms. Kespa then goes to OGN and MBC and renegotiates all of the leagues. Total downtime? 2-3 weeks.
I don't see how any other possible outcome can happen. If blizzard loses, then the international court will step in and overrule korea. If blizzard wins and OGN and MBC decide to cancel all of the leagues because of "no profit", then gretech will simply take over and start doing BW tournaments. Kespa does not want this to happen, so i don't see this happening.
Whether or not broadcasting video games is counted as an IP is a totally different issue that might deserve attention in the future, but is not the issue at hand. Current law is on blizzard's favor, and renegotiating IP law internationally could take 10-20 years, so it's not going to happen.
There are 2 ways of looking at things: 1. injecting your personal opinion about who is right and wrong for whatever you want 2. Looking at all of the facts and coming to a conclusion objectively. IMO I don't think blizzard should sue ogn or mbc, i think it's bad press and it will definitely hurt BW in some way, but the fact is blizzard owns the IP and there is no arguing against that.
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Didn't Milkis say that we're not IP rights lawyers and not to act like we're going to know what the outcome of the lawsuit is going to be? Directed at above ^
Some things said about Blizzard in this thread:
MMO based e-sport: MLG has already pulled it out of Dallas due to awful balance from Blizzard (they said arena in Cataclysm is unplayable or something to that effect). (The scene was caster-dominant for 11 months plus and Blizzard never did anything. It's also horribly one sided and boring to watch -> WoW players can side with me on this.) Could Blizzard decide to do this to SC2 one day? Possibly.
Pre-paid game cards: Doesn't this seem to be like WoW subscription style money grabbing to you? As many people have said, if Blizzard games are that good, no one would find $60 too steep to pay for a game you can spend countless hours on. Why the game cards? If people found the game great to play during the Free Play weekend wouldn't they just buy it?
Playing BW: I know many people like me, don't have the hand speed/game sense to bother playing SC:BW regularly, but still enjoy watching and following the BW scene due to the sheer intensity of the gameplay and the entertainment value. Watching the players do ridiculous things that we cannot emulate and only marvel at is part of the magic that is pro-BW. If it dies, the game is as good as dead, I think most of the people that still play are motivated by the pro-scene anyway.
As for the OP, while it is mostly speculation, I believe most fans of SC should be able to sympathize with it. I'm sure that some people out there believe that Blizzard is not justified to take full control of their game with the lack of basic support features (chat and LAN obviously), and thus their move to enforce their IP rights on BW (to control it) is seen as a move to hurt it as they don't seem competent enough to handle it.
Of course my post is opinion too, feel free to disagree with it, but as a long time supporter of Blizzard games since WC3 (picked up BW after it), and a huge WoW fanatic it pains me to see them head in this direction. (I also play SC2, and I feel that it could have been much more, new game as it is, but it was released lacking a handful of things, something I feel Blizzard has not done prior to 2007.) Also, I can't help but feel that the expansions are just a delaying tactic for people to keep their faith in Blizzard (yeah it may be new, but we gotta wait for all the expansions (after like 2-4 years) to really see how it is going to be successful <--- where have you heard this before). It's like WoW, people keep pretending the next expansion is going to be better, so they renew/keep their subscription...
Extra note: Anyone else notice that on the BW stream chat every session of games always has some SC2 fanboy come in and be like "Hey guys what game is this, do you know sc2 is out etc.", that's so annoying...
Apologize for the wall of text.
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On November 14 2010 12:20 ThatsNoMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 12:04 toadstool wrote:lol @ this. a blind fanboy complaining about blind fanboyism. How is he a blind fanboy? He is being objective about what was written in the blog, completely unbiased. Get your head out of your ass before you post plz.
I was referring to the OP as a blind fanboy, I had a quick read in the link of his past post.
All the OP does is bitch about SC2 and hate on it, yet he's pretending to be subjective and unbiased in his blog.
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On November 14 2010 17:37 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 12:20 ThatsNoMoon wrote:On November 14 2010 12:04 toadstool wrote:lol @ this. a blind fanboy complaining about blind fanboyism. How is he a blind fanboy? He is being objective about what was written in the blog, completely unbiased. Get your head out of your ass before you post plz. I was referring to the OP as a blind fanboy, I had a quick read in the link of his past post. All the OP does is bitch about SC2 and hate on it, yet he's pretending to be subjective and unbiased in his blog.
Ah misunderstanding <3
It happens a lot in the internets.
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EPT
