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When I fired up my first game of Starcraft 2 last July, I chose Zerg and immediately began the tech to Hydras. “The new Hydra’s gonna be so badass!” I thought. I was disappointed at first (1 upg only?!?!), but I had fun using them all the same. I’d zip them through nydus networks and watch how fast they would just rape everything. But after trying out all the other Zerg units, I realized hydras lacked their charming fearsomeness from the BW days, not only in the game but in the lore. Anyone else get a chill down their spine after those two Terrans hit that Zergling with their Jeep and big-daddy Hydralisk shows up? That thing was 8 feet tall, scary as hell, and shot acid-coated needles through those hicks before he ate them. Badass.
All the same I laddered up to diamond, my affection for the Hydralisk unperturbed. I of course realized I couldn’t just mass them up every game, but if given an opportunity I’d find myself gravitate to the Hydra. And as I climbed higher, these opportunities would tend to fail me. The Hydralisk just didn’t prove that viable. Of course they have their place in the Zerg army, but not as the cornerstone that I had grown to expect.
They’ll get buffed! Or so I told myself. In comes my least favorite buff of the last patch – increased roach range. Roaches are the most boring unit Zerg has to offer. So now, every game practically, I’ll field a pack (or swarm) of Roaches just because I have to. They’re viable in big numbers, small numbers, they’re low larva, they’re cost effective, they live forever, they come with 1 armor, they build fast, etc… Of the two Zerg ground units with ranged attacks why, I asked myself, did Blizzard choose to buff the boring one as opposed to the once-mighty Hydra, the backbone and poster child of the Zerg army.
The answer dawned on me this morning. The next expansion pack will be Heart of the Swarm, Zerg’s time to shine. Last time Blizzard expanded a game called Starcraft, the Hydralisk was evolved into the terrifying Lurker, who would hit ground units in an aoe row while being burrowed. How awesome was that the first time you watched a bunch of marines heads fall off in a neat little line?
Blizzard can’t do Lurkers again, that wouldn’t be proper. But the Hydra will get an evolution. They have to. And it’s going to be epic. Don’t you think Blizzard has as much love for their most iconic unit as all of us? They’re pacing themselves. Moreover, I bet Hydras will get a second upgrade (add a snare effect to grooved spines anyone?) and most Zerg matches will be filled with Hydras, transforming at a moments notice into their badass evolution to a unit that will be as unique as the Baneling. Hydras must be left mediocre now because every unit must get their chance – this is the roach’s time to shine. They better enjoy their 15 minutes.
There is no unit in the Zerg army that has as much growing room as the Hydra. Brace yourselves now, the HotS Hydra will reclaim that ferocity that garnered our affection for the Zerg all those years ago.
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What they really need to do is change the animation and firing sound. Something more gooey perhaps?
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Having a snare (slow) effect getting hit by Hydras seem pretty neat but then ZvP will turn really bad where Roach + Hydra will just tear through P army
I dont think it will be that devasting in ZvT seeing how T has a unit that can slow also
Yes, Hydras are pretty flawed, but I would advocate putting Hydras T1 and give them speed upgrade like BW. Maybe increase their DPS slightly too.
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Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
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I think an upgrade for hydralisks to leave a trail of creep behind them would be interesting.
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
Not gonna lie, I did :/
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
A little bit, but it was a good post nonetheless.
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
indeed =(
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Hehe nice post.. I think the Hydras role is not impressive as it was on BW, but they have still its niche in Z v Z and sometimes in P v Z :-)
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
totally, just scrolled down rapidly looking for the first image^^
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I'm not sure how the roach is the boring unit out of those two. You can do more with a roach due to its burrow upgrade. The hydra was basically a strong marine (minus Stimpack). It's up to you if you count lurkers as a hydralisk feature.
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
did
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Am i the only person who likes the roach? I think they're pretty cool. It's a very Blizzard name though unfortunately. Very uncreative and tbh, it resembles nothing of a roach, so why that name?
isn't HoTS supposed to be last? If so, i'd try and convince yourself that the hydra is a cool unit that has just been modified by retards
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Great read. I think people are just not getting this post. More than a cry-post for balanace, its feels like a "poem" to the hydralisk situation and the desires/dreams of the op for it to become much more viable
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On November 10 2010 03:34 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only person who likes the roach? I think they're pretty cool. It's a very Blizzard name though unfortunately. Very uncreative and tbh, it resembles nothing of a roach, so why that name?
isn't HoTS supposed to be last? If so, i'd try and convince yourself that the hydra is a cool unit that has just been modified by retards
HotS is the first expansion up to bat. Regardless, all races are supposed to receive fair treatment during both expansions, i.e. if one race gets a new unit they all will.
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Aw... no comics! 
Here's something I found on the internet ot keep everyone here entertained.
![[image loading]](http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/214/0/a/HAPPY_RAGIN_HYDRALISK_TEAM_by_Kackex.jpg)
Anyways, I think it is intentional that hydras are not as good in sc2. Otherwise it would be too similar to sc1.
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On November 10 2010 03:34 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only person who likes the roach? I think they're pretty cool. It's a very Blizzard name though unfortunately. Very uncreative and tbh, it resembles nothing of a roach, so why that name?
isn't HoTS supposed to be last? If so, i'd try and convince yourself that the hydra is a cool unit that has just been modified by retards
i've always kinda liked the roach, its nice with a bit more tough unit other than Ultralisk
and no HotS is the next expansion, LotV is last
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I don't get why people think roaches are such a boring unit and then praise the hydralisk. The hydralisk is the textbook definition of an a-move unit. At least roaches have the potential for additional micro with burrow. I realize there's a lot of positioning that goes into every unit, including hydras, but that's just as true for roaches.
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On November 10 2010 03:34 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only person who likes the roach? I think they're pretty cool. It's a very Blizzard name though unfortunately. Very uncreative and tbh, it resembles nothing of a roach, so why that name?
isn't HoTS supposed to be last? If so, i'd try and convince yourself that the hydra is a cool unit that has just been modified by retards
Legacy of the Void is last.
And I was slightly upset, but the post was o-k
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For every new unit they add, they have to lower the role of all existing units to compensate. Hydra seems to be the unit that got it worst. I don't really think they are bad per se, I just think they are missing personality. Their attack sound is terrible and they no longer have those hydra screeches when they die in battle. They just sort of "splut" when they die. Compare that to brood war, when they would rip apart and have a huge screech of agony. They had a lot more character.
I also think they are too high in the tech tree to get something to morph into. More than likely the roach will be the one morphing if lurkers return.
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On November 10 2010 03:27 dambros wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed? Not gonna lie, I did :/
I 3rd that
But ya, I guess I agree. But only with the, "they're going to do something with the hydra in the expansion."
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awesome write up man. completely agreed
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On November 10 2010 03:30 MasterReY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed? totally, just scrolled down rapidly looking for the first image^^
I guess Hydras aren't happy yet
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
me
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Cant but help feel this is a troll post. Hydras are powerful and if youre somewhat good at spreading creep(which is oh I dont know the second most important thing after inject larva) they rape most things that they meet on the battleground. You just need to back them up.
Roaches are fine btw. They are almost the most micro intense unit that zerg has since infestors die too easily anyways(not calling them imba, I think they're fine) unless youre sneaking around in your opponents base. Not boring at all.
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I came in here expecting a comic
However I do agree the Hydra is kind of lacking. I hope they spice it up in HotS.
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i really liked hyras in bw too. i wish they were smaller and shot green acid looking things D:
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On November 10 2010 03:26 Krigwin wrote:
Did anyone else come in here expecting a comic like "The Happy Ultralisk" and was a little disappointed?
There is next to no time in this game were Hydralisks are really happy...
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I think a mistake a lot of people make, including the OP is that Blizzard is passionate about SC2 in the same way as "we" are. "We" being those of us who play this game for the competition of it not necessarily the lore of it.
Blizzard knows how to make a good game, there is no doubt and they are doing a good job on balance, however they know and care little about what the hydralisk was outside of its fan art portrayal. Most blizzard employees working on SC2 don't see the hydra like you do because they've never used it like you do. Imagine for a second if we transplanted the TL.net staff for the SC2 Devopment Staff and what sort of difference that would make.
Hell they could not even name the units correctly portrayed in the *FAN ART* they made for Fruitdealer after having won the first GSL (the fan-art was awesome, but the text shows a clear misunderstanding of the units portrayed in it).
A lot of people would say that isnt a big deal, yadda yadda. I used to agree. But, clearly, though blizzard is taking balance suggestions from people who obviously play this game competitively, they do not.
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Hydras aren't massable or viable because they're trash off creep. Until you have connected creep to the enemy base, hydras are not viable for killing. And in the time it takes you to expand creep that far, you have better killing tech available.
Imo all the hydralisk needs is a speed upgrade off creep. Then suddenly its viable against protoss when you're playing the aggro, and can chase down the air units it defends against. I do believe this upgrade would require hive tech, or else you risk making the hydra too powerful, especially vs gateway tech
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On November 10 2010 03:34 Rickilicious wrote:
Am i the only person who likes the roach? I think they're pretty cool. It's a very Blizzard name though unfortunately. Very uncreative and tbh, it resembles nothing of a roach, so why that name?
Because cockroaches are supposed to be almost impossible to kill, and I think Blizzard was evoking that tenacity with the roaches' initial health + fast heal ability.
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Hydras aren't massable or viable because they're trash off creep. Until you have connected creep to the enemy base, hydras are not viable for killing. And in the time it takes you to expand creep that far, you have better killing tech available. The roach is so massed because as a reactionary zerg, its the one unit that can hold a heavy push and still counter attack because its fast enough to cross the map
Imo all the hydralisk needs is a speed upgrade off creep. Then suddenly its viable against protoss when you're playing the aggro, and can chase down the air units it defends against. I do believe this upgrade would require hive tech, or else you risk making the hydra too powerful, especially vs gateway tech
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god damn it i came in expecting something entertaining and instead i get some silver league player who claims he's diamond assuring us that a unit will be buffed with no real backing to his claim.
no blizzard doesn't have the same love for the hydra. they actually fucking hate zerg. they only fixed the damn race because every zerg player in existence gathered on their forums to constantly discuss how grossly broken the race was.
the hydra has a nasty problem behind the design concept. if it gets buffed, it will be overpowered. its DPS is so ridiculously high that if it got a speed buff it would be insanely hard to beat. it's an amazing unit on creep, but creep is what handicaps it and keeps it balanced. i know i've seen some replays of Artosis getting a couple of queens early on, creeping the entire map really fast, and using hydras. you could try doing that.
but no. blizzard is never going to buff the hydra. sorry man, not happening. and i don't appreciate your roach hate, either. roaches are way more exciting than hydras. they spit acid and move underground like the baller little covert-ops insects they are
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Man today must be Hydra QQ day. 3rd thread I have seen about hydralisks today, and I have only been at work for only an hour.
I experienced the same feeling as you when I got SC2. 1st thing I did was tech to hydras and was met with dissapointment.
Hydra was a staple unit in SC1, cheap, weaker, easy to mass produce. It was given a more specialized role in SC2 as a DPS unit made of paper. Its sad for all the people who used to love the hydra, but gotta deal with it.
The roach takes over the hydra role in SC1 as the massable T1 unit, but unlike SC1, where enough hydras could pretty much handle everything, in SC2 they lack AA, so that is not the case.
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lol i bet you the one getting an evolution from zerg on HotS will be the roach lol
good post 
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Nice post. I too love the hydralisk even though I'm primarily a random player. I've been trying to find ways to work them into my play (hoping opponents go air or 4-gate lol).
I think it would make a ton of sense for the hydra to get a morphable upgrade at tier 3 or even 2.5 (requires a tech structure or morph of the hydra den that obviously requires lair + den but not hive).
Would like to see it as a beefy crowd control type unit that has long range but no air attack. Maybe something that gives zerg the option to control chokes the way that sentries/templar/siege tanks do now)
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United States12607 Posts
This is best as a blog; SC2 General has enough balance/game design threads as is.
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I wish the Hydralisk got reverted back to how they were in BW and Roaches were taken out.
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On November 10 2010 03:25 lastmotion wrote:
Having a snare (slow) effect getting hit by Hydras seem pretty neat but then ZvP will turn really bad where Roach + Hydra will just tear through P army
I dont think it will be that devasting in ZvT seeing how T has a unit that can slow also
Yes, Hydras are pretty flawed, but I would advocate putting Hydras T1 and give them speed upgrade like BW. Maybe increase their DPS slightly too.
Make them able to scale cliffs, move while burrowed(with increased regen), give them splash damage and increased hp, while we're at it. Geez some people are never satisfied.
Hydras are not flawed.
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On November 10 2010 03:15 Phay wrote:
When I fired up my first game of Starcraft 2 last July, I chose Zerg and immediately began the tech to Hydras. “The new Hydra’s gonna be so badass!” I thought.
you were wrong
On November 10 2010 03:15 Phay wrote:
They’ll get buffed! Or so I told myself.
you were wrong
On November 10 2010 03:15 Phay wrote:
The answer dawned on me this morning. (...) the Hydra will get an evolution. They have to.
give your track record i'd say that...
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On November 10 2010 03:41 Rokk wrote:
I don't get why people think roaches are such a boring unit and then praise the hydralisk. The hydralisk is the textbook definition of an a-move unit. At least roaches have the potential for additional micro with burrow. I realize there's a lot of positioning that goes into every unit, including hydras, but that's just as true for roaches.
I don't mean to shit on the Roach as much as people seem to be inferring. Roaches are a great compliment to the Zerg army. I'd just appreciate if Roaches and Hydras had a bit more differentiation between the two of them, because as it is, Roaches are stealing the limelight. As far as being an a-move unit, I completely agree. They're more an a-move unit than almost any other in the game. That's probably my biggest issue.
On November 10 2010 04:08 Durp wrote:
Imo all the hydralisk needs is a speed upgrade off creep. Then suddenly its viable against protoss when you're playing the aggro, and can chase down the air units it defends against. I do believe this upgrade would require hive tech, or else you risk making the hydra too powerful, especially vs gateway tech
I've heard this a lot. Quite frankly, I think that a speed buff is the exact opposite of what the Hydra needs. I feel that many buffs, including the Roach buff, serve to "mellow" units, making them more average as opposed to excelling further in the attributes they're designed to represent. But as it is, the most iconic unit in Starcraft is reduced excelling in pure damage, with little potential for extensive micro. Yes you can spread creep, yes you can burrow, yes you can do a lot of things and of course these help. In fact, these things are some of the only micro even possible with a Hydra. The existing micro will become compromised if not eliminated by simply buffing their weak point, their off-creep speed.
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[/QUOTE]I've heard this a lot. Quite frankly, I think that a speed buff is the exact opposite of what the Hydra needs. I feel that many buffs, including the Roach buff, serve to "mellow" units, making them more average as opposed to excelling further in the attributes they're designed to represent. But as it is, the most iconic unit in Starcraft is reduced excelling in pure damage, with little potential for extensive micro. Yes you can spread creep, yes you can burrow, yes you can do a lot of things and of course these help. In fact, these things are some of the only micro even possible with a Hydra. The existing micro will become compromised if not eliminated by simply buffing their weak point, their off-creep speed.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. The hydralisk is by no means the most micro-intensive unit for zerg, being that on creep they're so powerful you often don't even need to micro, and off creep they're so slow that it's just a waste of time trying to kite- you can't.
As far as I understood creep offers more of a bonus to zerg units than just movement speed; I propose ONLY increasing the movement speed off creep. All other creep benefits would still improve it's use on creep, and I don't suggest it even be as fast as it is on creep. But one colossus can kill nearly infinite hydralisks if you catch them off creep (with good micro), and to me that seems to take away from the essence of the BW hydra- one of the most frightening units in any RTS. Now the Hydralisk is a joke, and as a heavy BW player that hurts a lot to see.
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The hydralisk sucks for cost:
Hydralisk vs Marine
Cost:
H - 100m 50g. M - 50m
Speed off creep / not stimmed
H - 2.25. M - 2.25
Speed on creep / stimmed
H - 3.375. M - 3.35
DPS
H - 13.95. M - 6.98 (10.465 stimmed)
Range
H - 5 (+1) M - 5
HP
H - 80. M - 45 (+10)
The hydralisk is like an ineffecient marine, that costs gas.
EDIT: not a balance thread, just a cost comparison.
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EPT
