At my school, I'm in a deadlock debate over whether or not Starcraft is a sport. First, let me define sport...
SPORT: (noun)- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
OK, so now that you understand that definition of "sport" (all info taken off dictionary.com) I am able to begin my argument.
First off, I strongly believe that Starcraft is a sport. It's number one in eSports for goodness sakes! Let's do a checklist shall we?
1)an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess. CHECK Here, I'd like to point out the OR in this sentence. This means that it can be requiring skill, OR requiring physical prowess, OR both. In this case, we have skill, because we are moving the mouse at blinding speeds, moving our fingers across keyboards, and most of all, show emotions. Which brings me to my next topic.
2)often of a competitive nature. CHECK Starcraft people all know about emotions and competitiveness. For all old-timers (no I'm not one of them), we remember oh-so vividly the rivalry between BoxeR and [NC]Yellow... We even remember sAviOr's peak, and Bisu's Forge FE... And you say these aren't competitive qualities??? That means that the rivalry between the Lakers and Celtics in basketball, or the Yankees and Red Sox in baseball, all aren't any part of this competitiveness???
So what are your thoughts on this matter, do you think Starcraft is, or is not a sport, and please defend your reasoning. Don't give me one-liners (COUGH RESPECT TL COUGH) blatantly saying, "OH YOU SUK!!! STARCRAFT IS NOT A SPORT". Thank you.
depends on how you define sport. and also, stop worrying about people who don't think SC is a sport. just understand that they disagree with you, and if it helps, tell yourself that you're superior to them. it'll make your life a lot easier.
I really use to call on chess with this discussion comes up. Chess is (as far as I know) regarded by most people as a sport, and it definately doesn't require any more athletic activity than Starcraft does.
I know it might not be the best to conclude with something like this, but most people I've talked with that already regard chess as a sport seem to understand my point of view very quickly with this statement.
It's an e-sport. Whether or not you consider e-sports to be in the same category as "traditional sports" up to you, but I honestly think the whole argument is mostly just a matter of semantics.
In my opinion, Starcraft is not a sport; it's an eSport. The main separating factor is that Starcraft is played entirely through an electronic interface, while a sport is conducted in a physical realm. I'm not saying eSports are somehow inferior than sports, just that they are different.
On November 03 2010 08:16 Enervate wrote: The main separating factor is that Starcraft is played entirely through an electronic interface, while a sport is conducted in a physical realm.
I understand by what you mean, but didn't the definition just support my ideas??? I said that it can be only on skill, and not physical attributes, though you do need quite a bit of stamina. But hey, thanks for the comment, I appreciate your views.
On November 03 2010 08:02 FlaShFTW wrote: SPORT: (noun)- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
[...]
Here, I'd like to point out the OR in this sentence. This means that it can be requiring skill, OR requiring physical prowess, OR both.
You leave out "athletic". I feel chess isn't a sport by this definition?
Honestly I wish we (gamers) would stop caring so much about what other people think. Other 'sports' (poker, soccer in NA, golf, whatever) never got anywhere just by debating with people who aren't fans. If it gets popular enough, it will be accepted - if not as a sport, as a professional competition, which is the same thing really.
I would say the SC definitely falls under the requirement of physical prowess, maybe even more so than skill.
Just going out on a limb here, but at, for example, the wide reciever position in football, it does not take a whole lot of skill to catch a football. Anyone can learn how to do it. But where good players separate themselves is the ability hold position on a defender, which is the skill of playing well, and to run very fast, as well as make athletic jumps, which falls under physical prowess.
all of these elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
In SC, anyone can pick up the game, play zerg, and build drones, lings and roaches. Where good players separate themselves is the ability to see what their opponent is doing and react properly (the skill), and then to be able to move their hands fast enough to execute properly (which is the physical prowess.)
All elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
also, a lot of people would argue in football that subtle positioning will separate you from equally athletic players, but there is only so much you can do against someone who is both stronger and faster than you. The same applies to SC, where you can exploit very subtle timings and other things, but there is only so much you can do against a player who has far better mechanics.
And you say these aren't competitive qualities??? That means that the rivalry between the Lakers and Celtics in basketball, or the Yankees and Red Sox in baseball, all aren't any part of this competitiveness???
This is what's known as a strawman - a sign that your argument is quite weak.
Sport or eSport or not, SC definitely is more of a "sport" than poker is in my opinion... and poker is broadcasted in all the major sports broadcasting channels here in North America. So yeah.
any activity with competition that requires phyiscal activity is a sport. theres professional hotdog eating, thumb wrestling, beer pong,poker . all of those require physical activity and competition. if you are trying to convince someone that you are an athlete playing this game i would guess that you would have to somehow convince that 300 apm means being able to pitch a baseball at 100mph with pinpoint accuracy or something since you have such finger control. It really depends on the pereson you are trying to convince for something to be a "sport"
Thank you all for your feedback. Although I'm biased in this matter, I'm delighted to see that more than 50% of the people here (people doing more than one comment, the extra comments don't count) agree with me. To clarify, I don't intend for this to be a worldwide debate, just a simple one to prove my opposer (who has no skill in Starcraft what-so ever, and could be beaten by a Korean 2 year old), that he's wrong for making a judgement on the fact that it is so not a sport. Thank you very much for all the feedback!!!
No. Sports require athletic skills. There's a reason the term E-SPORTS exists.
On November 03 2010 08:50 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: I would say the SC definitely falls under the requirement of physical prowess, maybe even more so than skill.
Just going out on a limb here, but at, for example, the wide reciever position in football, it does not take a whole lot of skill to catch a football. Anyone can learn how to do it. But where good players separate themselves is the ability hold position on a defender, which is the skill of playing well, and to run very fast, as well as make athletic jumps, which falls under physical prowess.
all of these elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
In SC, anyone can pick up the game, play zerg, and build drones, lings and roaches. Where good players separate themselves is the ability to see what their opponent is doing and react properly (the skill), and then to be able to move their hands fast enough to execute properly (which is the physical prowess.)
All elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
also, a lot of people would argue in football that subtle positioning will separate you from equally athletic players, but there is only so much you can do against someone who is both stronger and faster than you. The same applies to SC, where you can exploit very subtle timings and other things, but there is only so much you can do against a player who has far better mechanics.
So ya, that's my 2 cents.
did you just really lump in someone wide receivers who run 4.3 40s with fatasses like julyzerg, who can click buttons fast?? I am an athlete because I can type at over 80 wpm. Word.
SPORT: (noun)- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
I hesitate calling it a sport, and i'm in more favor of just calling it more of a competitive activity or something. But people call nascar and poker a sport, so maybe not.
I don't consider it a sport. I consider a sport something you can exert more physical effort in a moment to gain an advantage. I don't consider clicking faster to fall under that definition. Arbitrary, sure. I think it degrades the value of "sport" to allow anything competitive to be a sport. The main part of a sport in my eyes is physical, and Starcraft isn't physical.
Does it really matter if it's a sport? It is what it is, why do you need to fit it into a box?
what does it matter what you define it as? if you define it as something competitive and requiring physical exertion, then it would depend on whether or not you define starcraft as physically exerting. if you define it as a competitive activity, then it just becomes too broad and too many things will fit under that definition.
you really don't need to "debate" with people at your school about whether or not its a sport. i'm sure you can't change their minds because they're already set on it, and you're just either making a fool out of yourself or annoying the shit out of your peers (and from what i hear its both ;D).
its an esport, we're cyber-athletes, isn't that good enough for you?
On November 05 2010 05:57 Chill wrote: Does it really matter if it's a sport? It is what it is, why do you need to fit it into a box?
I think this mainly has to do with letting competitive gaming being accepted by western culture. Sports, to many, are seen in a positive light. Gaming is frowned upon. Attempting to bridge the gap between the two would help gaming be more respected by westerners.
That being said, A: I doubt people will ever consider gaming a sport, and B: I don't really consider it one either.
On November 05 2010 07:03 OneOther wrote: SC is not a sport. It's a competitive game. There's no athleticism or physical exertion in SC. For me, those two qualities define a sport.
I guess it does depend a lot on how someone defines sports though.
This + what Chill said.
Not a sport. Neither is chess. Neither is poker. Sports involve maximum physical exertion and/or leave you exhausted when you're done.
It's kind of a silly question if you think about it. And it's an even sillier thing to "debate."
ieatkid5 said it in the first reply: it all depends on how you define sport, which, in your case at least, all depends on how you define physical prowess. Words like "sport" and "physical prowess" are just categories, which is to say that they're arbitrary and even reasonable, well-intentioned people can have sincere disagreements about them. You can't design an experiment to confirm your hypothesis one way or another. You're never going to come up with some perfect argument that proves that SC is or is not a sport. Just won't happen.
You might instead just ask yourself what the disagreement is really about. My guess it's about the "SC is a sport" side trying to assert that SC isn't a nerdy waste of life and the "SC is not a sport" side trying to assert that it is. Who hasn't been caught in that crossfire?
But a disagreement like that is just, as the great Raymond Smuckles would say, a hamsterwheel bitchfight. You shouldn't even let yourself get caught up in that. Haters gonna hate. Skaters gotta skate. You know how it is.
On November 03 2010 08:50 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: I would say the SC definitely falls under the requirement of physical prowess, maybe even more so than skill.
Just going out on a limb here, but at, for example, the wide reciever position in football, it does not take a whole lot of skill to catch a football. Anyone can learn how to do it. But where good players separate themselves is the ability hold position on a defender, which is the skill of playing well, and to run very fast, as well as make athletic jumps, which falls under physical prowess.
all of these elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
In SC, anyone can pick up the game, play zerg, and build drones, lings and roaches. Where good players separate themselves is the ability to see what their opponent is doing and react properly (the skill), and then to be able to move their hands fast enough to execute properly (which is the physical prowess.)
All elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
also, a lot of people would argue in football that subtle positioning will separate you from equally athletic players, but there is only so much you can do against someone who is both stronger and faster than you. The same applies to SC, where you can exploit very subtle timings and other things, but there is only so much you can do against a player who has far better mechanics.
So ya, that's my 2 cents.
did you just really lump in someone wide receivers who run 4.3 40s with fatasses like julyzerg, who can click buttons fast?? I am an athlete because I can type at over 80 wpm. Word.
So chess isn't a sport? Someone better contact the IOC.
it's a "sport" in a general sense to me.. I don't really care what other people think. that's just me really. and I wish the SC2 scene was bigger in the US (like it is in Korea)
On November 05 2010 00:47 Hawk wrote: No. Sports require athletic skills. There's a reason the term E-SPORTS exists.
On November 03 2010 08:50 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: I would say the SC definitely falls under the requirement of physical prowess, maybe even more so than skill.
Just going out on a limb here, but at, for example, the wide reciever position in football, it does not take a whole lot of skill to catch a football. Anyone can learn how to do it. But where good players separate themselves is the ability hold position on a defender, which is the skill of playing well, and to run very fast, as well as make athletic jumps, which falls under physical prowess.
all of these elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
In SC, anyone can pick up the game, play zerg, and build drones, lings and roaches. Where good players separate themselves is the ability to see what their opponent is doing and react properly (the skill), and then to be able to move their hands fast enough to execute properly (which is the physical prowess.)
All elements require years of focused training and dedication, and failure before you obtain success.
also, a lot of people would argue in football that subtle positioning will separate you from equally athletic players, but there is only so much you can do against someone who is both stronger and faster than you. The same applies to SC, where you can exploit very subtle timings and other things, but there is only so much you can do against a player who has far better mechanics.
So ya, that's my 2 cents.
did you just really lump in someone wide receivers who run 4.3 40s with fatasses like julyzerg, who can click buttons fast?? I am an athlete because I can type at over 80 wpm. Word.
So chess isn't a sport? Someone better contact the IOC.
I don't think I'd be the first to say that the IOC is retarded. Chess ain't a sport. They just happen to have a lot more mobilized nerds who don't like being told they're not athletes and made a big enough shit that they were included.
Trying to base this discussion off of a dictionary definition is incredibly stupid, definitions change all the time when the word starts being used in different ways or to mean different things. think of marriage as an example. 100 years ago it sure as hell didn't include inter racial marriages and now it doesn't include gay ones although it will in another 100 years. The only difference between a game and a sport is how seriously people take it and how competitively it's played. starcraft is a sport.
EPT
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