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Dear Travis,
I didn't think you were trying to troll me for a moment given the way you phrased your comment "I want to see how you respond". I still stand by my original comment that A) kennigit's comments crossed a line and B) as a mod kennigit should be held to a higher standard. I'm a little confused as to why you don't like me calling kennigit's comments sexist. As I stated in my original comment I don't think kennigit is a sexist in real life but I do think his comments were a tad... Distasteful. As a joke it was funny at first then he ran it into the ground. You however, correct if I'm wrong, are saying it's okay to be sexist because we get called names. This logic is confusing and I'm sure that's not what you meant so if you could clarify that I would appreciate it. Also you seem to think that im only picking this becasue I disagree with it. The reason I am picking this (as I already stated) is because kennigit is a mod and needs to set a better example. As I understand TL is against sexism (reading through the automated ban list confirms this) so all I'm saying is perhaps kennigit should consider that first time posters will look at him as an example and when they see this they'll think "well I don't have to take the commandments seriously after all".
All in all I'm not sure why we are even arguing. As far as I can tell you don't disagree that the comments were sexist and the only problem you have is me calling them out.
I faithfully awaight your reply,
Love Meapak_Ziphh
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good for you man. how the can she lose HER friends and blame it on you. wow. she sounds very messed in the head.
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On October 20 2010 10:48 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 07:53 Kennigit wrote:On October 20 2010 07:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Being manly means being master of yourself and being able to take the situation in hand without losing nerves or even being unnecessarly rude or hurting. This guy is right. Just tell her that her behavior is unacceptable + Show Spoiler +then smack her right in the mouth!!! To be completely honest, a non-admin would likely be banned for this post, joke or not. So many people hopping on the bandwagon to support Kennigit just because he is an admin. You've got to be kidding me if you guys are serious about men having this kind of control over women and "putting them in their place". ...
Agreed
On October 20 2010 10:47 Raeleigh wrote:
Being a girl, I think you responded correctly.
It's basically, you get what you give, right?
If you're rude to someone, they're going to be rude back. It's only fair.
So, I think you responded well. Maybe next time don't explode but just do what she's doing to you. If she talks down to you, you do it back.
I know personally when I do that to people and they do it back, it sort of slaps me in the face, and it hurts. It always hurts when people talk down to you or are rude to you. Haha.
In any case, I think you did what you had to. If she's going to be a giant cunt and expect the world from you but not give anything back, then there's something wrong with her princess wanna be ass.
I've had a friend, who was my best friend(not anymore though), who was allowed to be a bitch to everyone, but we weren't allowed to be one to her. She lied a lot too. So I told her, "You're a bitch to everyone, but we're not allowed to be one to you. Thanks for being my friend." And I left. -shrug-
Sometimes it's not worth keeping those kind of people around. ;3
Edit: LOL I thought you meant girl that's a friend as well, not a girlfriend. Well then! That makes it even worse. In a relationship, you never let anyone treat you like that. Especially if it's someone you're caring for and is supposed to be caring for you.
Agreed but it is a girl that's a friend :/
I also think that Kennigit has gone a bit over the line with his "joke advice" and if he wasn't a Mod he would most likely be either perm-banned or banned.
My Thoughts,
3FFA
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On October 20 2010 11:44 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Dear Travis,
I didn't think you were trying to troll me for a moment given the way you phrased your comment "I want to see how you respond". I still stand by my original comment that A) kennigit's comments crossed a line and B) as a mod kennigit should be held to a higher standard. I'm a little confused as to why you don't like me calling kennigit's comments sexist. As I stated in my original comment I don't think kennigit is a sexist in real life but I do think his comments were a tad... Distasteful. As a joke it was funny at first then he ran it into the ground. You however, correct if I'm wrong, are saying it's okay to be sexist because we get called names. This logic is confusing and I'm sure that's not what you meant so if you could clarify that I would appreciate it. Also you seem to think that im only picking this becasue I disagree with it. The reason I am picking this (as I already stated) is because kennigit is a mod and needs to set a better example. As I understand TL is against sexism (reading through the automated ban list confirms this) so all I'm saying is perhaps kennigit should consider that first time posters will look at him as an example and when they see this they'll think "well I don't have to take the commandments seriously after all".
All in all I'm not sure why we are even arguing. As far as I can tell you don't disagree that the comments were sexist and the only problem you have is me calling them out.
I faithfully awaight your reply,
Love Meapak_Ziphh
I like your posting, it's well thought out. And I don't think you're totally in the wrong in the position you've taken. However,
In general, I am completely against political correctness. I don't like it when people make a big deal out of things that aren't a big deal. That's my primary issue here.
Some of the comments were arguably sexist. The comment about "slapping a bitch" was definitely sexist. But it was not serious. I don't know if it's ok, though. Maybe you are right about setting a better example.
Many of the comments, however, were just observations or facts. Now maybe you disagreed with them and maybe they really are wrong but that's not the point, there is nothing sexist or racist about stating observations. Announcing that there is a 1000ft line of black people at the kfc come dinner time is not racist if that's what you actually see.
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She definitely needed to be put in her place, and it was right for you to stand up for yourself... but there are much better ways of doing it than screaming "fuck off" (or whatever it was that you said) and walking away. She obviously didn't understand where you were coming from (given the lack of apology and previous behaviour) so it was clearly an ineffective method for calling her out.
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Dude, don't even worry about that girl. She is psycho.
Also, don't continue thinking that rudeness is "strong character" and that social decency is weakness.
Weak people are rude and throw fits. Children are weak and also do this. Mature, strong people control their own emotions. Control your own destiny but don't think yelling will ever make you a strong person.
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I have to say i think OP's reaction wasn't that bad, sure, it could have been handled better. A lot of you seem to treat women differently for some reason and excuse inexcusable behavior from them. i have no qualms about telling someone to "fuck themselves" if they act like this, girl or no, and i especially don't expect my good friends (i got the impression from the OP that they are close friends) to treat me like this. Although admittedly i wouldn't have responded in the same way he did.
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Travis,
First I'd like to apologize for my tone in my last post, it came off slightly more combative than I intended. I'll also admit that some of the facts probably weren't sexist, I'm sure there are reputable sources to back them up and I don't believe it's sexist to state these facts. I agree as well that political correctness is mostly bullshit but the problem I'm having in this case is the tone the mod is setting. I guess that's the core of my argument, I think it was inappropriate for a mod to say that, especially given TL's somewhat shaking ground on the subject in the first place.
I think my position on this matter has been explained enough, we don't need to keep beating a dead horse, but I would love to hear one final response from you :D it's been fun discussing this tonight.
Meapak_Ziphh
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I dunno I guess I don't really have anything else to say. You seem nice enough and I definitely have no problem with you.
I am sure he will read what you said and think about it.
oh and your tone in your post seemed fine if anything you seemed overly respectful to me the whole time considered i purposely instigated something.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Hi Meapak_Ziphh
Since i joined teamliquid i have dedicated my blogs to relationships. Any staff member will tell you that is the one subject i am most passionate about in my life. Almost every single one has been advice for the average nerd on what he is probably thinking and why it is wrong. I galleried a bunch when i applied for jobs but the rest are around. I've personally coached in private over 50 Teamliquid members in their love lives. I've helped 10 TL members "get" girls who wouldn't have been able to do it by themselves. Most of them are in or had long lasting fruitful relationships as a result. 1 was a complete noob who i had to coach for over a year. After he got over that "hump" he became incredibly successful with girls.
Over the last year and a half i dated almost 100 women through online dating. I spent hundreds of hours messaging, failing, figuring out what i did wrong, figuring out where what i had done was right and just had bad luck. The most important thing i can do is pass on knowledge that ive learned so that people don't make the same mistakes. Some of those girls i've either dated for long periods or became really good friends with.
This sounds like a brag. And it is. The point is that i know exactly what i'm doing, but like many teamliquid members grew up as a timid teenager who had zero explanation or insight into what was expected in girls or relationship and had zero male influence to guide me (my parents are together, it just never came up) - everything was a dice roll. Mothers teach their sons to be nice to girls when they are young - the problem is that these boys grow into men who believe that in order to get a girls interest, he must do nice things and be pleasant and that she will naturally come around. This is false as illustrated by the hundreds of "girl problem" blogs that exist on teamliquid.
I truly believe that there is a world wide epidemic, at least in north america where men have been culturally programmed to believe that their success in love will only come luck and that they have little tangible control over it. Perhaps you don't like my delivery, but i've been thanked in PM by hundreds for my harsh tone which "opened their eyes" to some problems they were facing.
Regarding my posts. 1 was clearly a joke as you admitted. The lion video was not a joke. i stand behind this belief.
You've suggest that i said all women are like the girls i know. This is not the case. i said i know a group of girls who despite their alpha/competitive spirit are very similar at heart and share very similar qualifying factors in selecting men. Most girls i've dated have very similar views. Either i've been picking every single member of some minority in the world and my intuition is false....or i haven't and i'm right.
3rd post i quoted biff who said that real men don't lose their temper with women and said he was correct. I then followed this up with a joke in spoilers which you have taken very seriously. Often jokes are based on previous subject matter. For example, a comedian may tell a story at the beginning of his act and then at the end make reference to it in 1 line before leaving the stage.
I'm not sure what else you think was inappropriate.
To summarize: i've been talking about girls on TL for years. Like you said, admin posts stick out like sore thumbs and i have a reputation for either a) having polarizing views b) being the go to guy for relationship problems. I respect women. I think the idea that men and women are "equal" is fundamentally flawed, because we are physiologically and psychologically not the same. I think men and women should be given fair and equal treatment as far as our ability to work and operate in society.
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She was freaking crazy/having a bad night.
You shouldn't have bent over, but your response is wrong just because it is always unproductive for the friendship no matter what. Honestly what do you hope to accomplish? Be a man, not a Neanderthal.
You can't force someone to apologize either, thats for them to decide to do. For whatever reason modern society is hell bent on not apologizing for anything seeing it as a sign of weakness -- Yet how can it be a sign of weakness when it is so hard to do? If you want long term relationships (including friendships) to work you're going to have to let stuff slide once in awhile. No one is perfect and everyone has the "day from hell" once in awhile.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
after a little back and forth she said something like "you want me to lick your ass???" and i called her batshit crazy, and hence commences the arguement about who was wrong and who was rig
1. That'd be nice.
2. Is that an offer you're willing to follow up on?
3. How much would that run me?
4. Yes
5. Wow how did you know that? I got mine licked for the first time last night and it was amazing.
Note: These will work much better in a real life scenario than online.
You're welcome friend.
LOL Bleh, when a girl is acting like a bitch the only move is to keep your cool and say something like "AIGHT! next time I'll piss my pants!"
and after the fact, you can always pull the "I'm really sorry for reacting to you the other night when you started acting like a bitch, I was out of line and I apologize."
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Additionally. I'm NOT saying the OPs reaction was right. I'm saying he's created an environment where this girl felt comfortable telling him off which drives me up the wall.
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I can never give any good girl advise in these blogs. I've dated the same girl for 7+ years now, the first girl i ever went out with.
Anyways my belif is that people who loose their temper let things escalate never can hold a relationship. It's fine to fight and get angry but if you spend all day doing it you just end up hating each other. Everytime my girlfriend and i fight we eventually go to ihop sit down order some nice food and talk about things in general. Not about the thing we are fighting about or about things that bother us but just talk, like about a good movie we saw some nice piece of gossip etc. We also avoid name calling in fights as that tends to only hurt people and to me and her you don't hurt people you love, at least on purpose. It's not always about what you fight about but rather how you fight.
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On October 20 2010 15:10 Kennigit wrote:
Additionally. I'm NOT saying the OPs reaction was right. I'm saying he's created an environment where this girl felt comfortable telling him off which drives me up the wall.
Yeah I agree more with this. I do know what you mean in terms of not being a pushover/wuss, in fact I completely agree with it. However I do not believe that this entails that the guy must treat a woman poorly, which you admitted was wrong on his part so that's good to see. I believe that a man can be dominant and in charge simply by being emotionally stable as was discussed before, which can entail being kind. I find a lot of guys do realize that being "nice" doesn't work, but as a result they completely omit being "kind", which is very different trait. Being nice is letting a woman walk all over you and you just doing whatever you are told, being kind is treating women with respect while treating yourself with respect, which personally I believe is what women want the most (edit: and is also the healthiest for a good relationship). This realization of most guys can result in rude behaviours or treating women poorly, which is what bothers me. Another thing that should be noted is the difference between how one acts in a relationship vs. picking up/getting a girl's attention, but that is a different matter.
Anyway, point being, it looks like we have found some resolution here which I hope the OP has noticed.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Beg your pardon kennigit. I understand you have probably decades of experience on me so I will intrude no further into your realm. I also know that this is your area of expertise and normally I wouldn't challenge that but your joke (which perhaps I am too hung up on) really irked me especially considering how previous situations like this have turned out. I think we have had fundamentally different experiences (and perhaps i am still too inexperienced) with women so I don't think it would be prudent for me to continue trying to argue this point.
I apologize if I stepped out of line,
Meapak_Ziphh
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
what the **** is going on here
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
i don't know. Its either 9th level trolling or Mork.
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EPT
