|
I despise teachers that can't teach at all.
High school physics is a pain in the butt if you have a teacher that can't explain it right to you. I might as well just get a tutor and take the AP exam rather than sit in the class itself.
French (or any foreign language) is terrible for me because none of my teachers have ever made it usable. My mandarin teachers just taught the book, and never taught us how to speak in public...I ended up learning more from my parents than I did from my teachers
To top it off, these are the same teachers that 1) annoy the shit out of you by giving a pointless lecture for the whole class period and 2) make you do stuff that you have no idea how to do.
Being independent is one thing, but I might as well just drop the classes if I weren't doing it for the credits.
4 years of french, and I still have no idea how to speak it. I have no friends that speak fluent french, and its not like I can seriously get better if my teacher goes off on tangents and stays on the same topic for months.
1 month of physics, and I still have no idea what the fuck I'm doing wrong. My teacher never bothers to correct people, and I'm one of those people that try, try, try, and try again til I get it right (that also applies to how I play starcraft games).
Do you guys hate people that don't know what the fuck they're doing either?
On a side note, would anyone like to be my pen pal in french or help me conceptually understand physics? I love the classes, but I hate the teachers.
 
|
|
|
yep, it blows.
I'm actually considering becoming a teacher just so I can do a better job than all the boring fuckwads I had to deal with.
|
Foreign languages (other than english ROFL) are not my strong point (took two years and summer school to get it out of the way). I will be willing to help you with physics as I had a teacher that taught the subject very well and did pretty well in the class and on the AP test. I'm guessing you're working on something related for Forces based on what the Physics class this year is doing.
At this point AP Physics B (what I assume you're taking) is still heavily dependent on your understanding of vectors and free-body diagrams. It's all about isolating the different objects in each scenario, understanding how the forces interact to accelerate said bodies, and to separate each of the forces into workable components (this is where your knowledge of vectors comes in).
|
In my first year of highschool my parents sent me to a private school that costed them $5000, then found out my physics teacher was 1st year, fresh out of school, and although knew the material, was really really bad at teaching it clearly and concisely to others. Needless to say that was my 1 and only year there 
|
this is a bit off topic but help me; i'm a pretty good teacher for the most part i think but on occasion i just hate a certain student and can't look past anything else besides the way he looks and acts in my class. every part of me wants to punch him. how do i deal with these hated kids and treat them like i treat everyone else.
|
yeah, at this point (one month in) free-body diagrams are all you need to know. take into account all of the forces acting in a problem, see what givens you have, and try to find a way to fit it into a formula. i only got a 3 on the AP test, but i slept through half of the year. you can easily get a 4 or 5 on the test if you really want to, regardless of your teacher. get a review book, and just mass questions like you would mass games. eventually you'll start to see A LOT of repeating questions, especially for the free response sections.
|
In the real world there are even MORE idiots. Just wait until you graduate. Fucking morons.
|
Why do you think that is?
Bad teachers.
|
What do you expect when the bar for entry level high school teachers is set so low in combination with the low pay incentive? Of course the hs teachers suck, but I think your expectations are a little too high. Textbook>teacher for pretty much all classes in all public highschools.
Well there are exceptions. There was a physics teacher I had in my public hs school who really stood out since he had a doctorate from MIT. His wife was stationed in the town for research and he said he opted out of his research because he realized he's not bright enough to be on the real cutting edge stuff so he'd rather be a family man and teach at the same time. His tests were fucking hard...drop out rate of his class was ~ 60%. But the school retained him since he's like a genius.
|
just wait until university, you haven't seen bad teachers yet...
|
Worst thing is a bad algebra teacher at university. Seriously nothing can be worse. Vector space mokay ???
About foreign language i think that the main problem isn't the teachers, i guess that you have to read a lot, newspapers, books, watch movies etc ... Even if you have the best teacher in the world, you won't be able to learn a new language if you don't practice. Oh and French isn't easy at all.
Actually i had the same problem with Spanish, after like 7 years of Spanish i can barely make a sentence and i have pretty much forgotten how to write. Obviously i can somewhat understand a text or a person but i'm not able to talk or to write. Why ?
Because i have never tried to learn about Spanish by myself and i just went to the classes. On the other hand even if my English is still mediocre i feel way better and confident about my abilities. That's because i'm used to read English forums, newspapers, i watch streams, movies etc... I have learnt more while browsing internet and playing video games than at school =/
So basicly there will be no miracle, you need to read/watch ton of stuff if you want to get good at French.
It will be hard and grammar + conjugation will be a real nightmare.
edit: Also what is your problem with French ?
|
yeah, and i don't know how kids even fucking graduate tbh, lol.
i have siblings who have friends who get A's on test's and they're completely fucking stupid, also one of my siblings seem to be this type; hispter.
schools are pumping out more and more retards these days with exceptions; students who teach themselves subjects on their own, rather than completely confiding into teachers to teach them the subjects.
teachers these days are inadequate at what they do.
|
AP study guide books by Princeton review. Holy shit those things are saviors. What I learned in one week from them was infinitely easier to pick up than what I tried to learn during an entire year of the class. You worried about an AP class? Just buy the book or go to your local borders and read it in the store, you'll master that stuff in no time.
It sucks that there are really inept teachers in our schools. But that doesn't mean you can get away not learning the material. Get creative and come up with a way of studying that works.
|
Osaka27149 Posts
Ever gone and talked to your teacher after class about your problems?
|
Nobody can "teach" you to speak a second language, only you can teach yourself.
The point of high school language education is NOT to achieve fluency. That goal is impossible given the situation you are put in. Unless you're learning French in France or in an environment where no-one else in your class speaks your native language, you can't achieve fluency. High school classes are supposed to teach you the fundamentals of the language so that you have some sort of base to build on if you decide to actually learn the language properly in the future. If you want to gain even an intermediate level of listening comprehension or speaking ability then it's up to you to pursue that in your free time. Only you can make it usable for yourself through hard work. You can't expect to just turn up to class every day and magically gain the ability to speak a second language, it doesn't work like that.
Also, length of time invested has very little to do with ability. People who say "I've learned X language for five years and still can't put a sentence together" are kidding themselves. Their FIVE YEARS of high school education is probably the equivalent of about TWO MONTHS intensive study in an immersive language environment.
And as a teacher I can tell you that I hate crappy students as much as you hate crappy teachers =/
|
Did you really expect to be able to speak a language fluently after four years of a high school second-language course?
Hell, if you even learned how to conjugate future and past tenses (and the exception verbs oooooooo!!!) you're probably ahead of all your peers...
|
Just do what I do and study from the book, if your teacher assigns one. It takes dramatically less time and gives you more free time to do other stuff.
Still go to class though.
|
if your teacher fails you.... use the book. it can actually help. had to use it in latin and biology ap. it was a regular latin honors class but the teacher didnt really know much. biology ap... teacher was on facebook for a good 30mins each day in our class.
|
Just read a book a lot of books if you can't figure it out (for physics).
As for French.... I don't know.... move to Canada?
On October 14 2010 14:52 mardi wrote:
if your teacher fails you.... use the book. it can actually help. had to use it in latin and biology ap. it was a regular latin honors class but the teacher didnt really know much. biology ap... teacher was on facebook for a good 30mins each day in our class.
You could have told the principal about this. 30 min is serious.
|
If your teacher is bad, you're going to need to rely on the book. Luckily for you, there's a tremendous amount of material on the physics you will learn in that class. If you don't find your textbook adequate, go find a college book that is used in lower division physics. There are tons out there which do a good job explaining the material. If you don't want to deal with another textbook, then you have to go talk to your teacher about why you're having difficulty learning from the lectures.
Honestly, you haven't had a shitty teacher until you get to university.
|
On October 14 2010 15:32 javy925 wrote:
If your teacher is bad, you're going to need to rely on the book. Luckily for you, there's a tremendous amount of material on the physics you will learn in that class. If you don't find your textbook adequate, go find a college book that is used in lower division physics. There are tons out there which do a good job explaining the material. If you don't want to deal with another textbook, then you have to go talk to your teacher about why you're having difficulty learning from the lectures.
Honestly, you haven't had a shitty teacher until you get to university.
In universities there are shitty TAs and shitty profs who can't speak English.
If you want to learn something, do it yourself. Most of these elementary topics can be found on many books. Just mix-and-match, read all of them. Often one book will explain certain things better than other ones.
|
On October 14 2010 13:58 Cambium wrote:
just wait until university, you haven't seen bad teachers yet...
Sad but true.....
Some profs are absolutely amazing. So far, most of mine have been awesome.
Some are absolutely terrible, and I've had 2 so far. I had a Calc prof taught us the wrong stuff for the entire semester, and well over half the class (myself included) failed because of how difficult he made it..... He's still a prof, because he's tenured..... My philosophy prof would give you an instant fail on any paper that had a view different than his, no matter how well you presented it..... He's still there, of course, because of how influential he is in parliament.....
And TAs are the same. Some are awesome (one held his discussion groups at a bar). Others are terrible..... I don't even want to list these.....
|
I don't wish to appear too pointed, but its never a good idea to expect a teacher to spoonfeed information to you, if only because eventually you are bound for disappointment.
Ask your classmates if you're the social type, read a textbook if you're not. Or read the textbook 100% of the time. You won't regret learning how to learn things (trite, I know, but true).
|
Take matters into your own hands and learn the material another way.
|
On October 14 2010 14:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
Ever gone and talked to your teacher after class about your problems?
This. Unless you've got one of those teachers that
a) don't give a shit or
b) would rather entertain you with stories of their youth.
I had this physics professor that would spend all class talking about how "this used to be all orange plantations blah blah" and if you were ever foolish enough to get caught in conversation with the guy, you were stuck for at least a half hour, because he just wouldn't quit, going on and on about something completely irrelevant, like how he used to know this guy that came from sweden who had once talked to the king. Even when you started saying stuff like "OK, thanks, goodbye, alright, see you later then" and walking away, he would COME AFTER YOU, still babbling like a deranged person.
You should try to talk to your professor after class, but lets not pretend there's no such thing as bad teachers.
|
I had 14 years of Irish and I can barely speak a word of it.
You have it better than that!
|
On October 14 2010 13:14 imBLIND wrote:High school physics is a pain in the butt
If it's any consolation most of the stuff you should know at this point is either wrong or grossly simplified anyway.
|
As been said already, wait till college. I have found so far in college there are two types of professors, really good ones who clearly care about teaching, and are good at it. they want thier students to do well and will d anything in thier power to make sure studnets know the material and do well. And then there are the awful ones who are clearly very smart but are only interested in thier research and couldn't give a shit about thier students. There are very few inbetween.
I had one professor for math who spoke pretty poor english, but he was a great professor, because he cared. He knew his english wasnt great so he made sure students could understand him, and showed us all kinds of resources. He was also was around to help students all the time. He held 20 office hours a week, and would help with anything he could even if it wasn't his class.
I had another professor for physics, who was awful. He spoke perfect english, but didnt give a shit about his students, made no materials avaliable for help, held 2 office hours a week (unvi minnium.) Left the room as soon as he could when the class ended. Payed no attention to what the preq for the class he was teaching were.
Read the book and learn on your own is all you can do. MIT opencourseware is good source as well I reccomend it.
TL:DR: College proffessor are either great or suck there is rarely someone inbetween, if they suck man up and use the book also MIT opencourseware is great
|
I think one of the biggest problems is that teaching is such a safe job, and that teachers aren't at all paid well. I think teachers should get paid more, but have less job stability.
|
To follow up on my comment earlier
On October 14 2010 13:58 Cambium wrote:
just wait until university, you haven't seen bad teachers yet...
At the university level, some profs simply don't give a shit about teaching as they may wish to focus their attentions elsewhere such as research or university/departmental bureaucracy, so they literally give the worst lectures ever. This is especially painful when these profs teach foundation courses such as linear algebra (so that you are fucked throughout your university career) or advanced topics (you take them because you have an interest, yet you learn absolutely nothing).
Also, you have to keep in mind that high school teachers typically are not the cream of the crop. While some are extremely passionate about teaching, sadly, most of them simply see it as just another job, something you do to get by in life.
On a side note, I volunteered at a local highschool three times a week assisting/teaching Gr. 12 calculus during my senior year, and I really enjoyed it. This might be something I want to do after I retire :D
|
A lot of teachers have very little experience in their fields. You need to go to school at least 1 year and take coursework unrelated to your topic just to teach high school even if you have a Ph.D.. However, if you want to teach Community college or University level with a Ph.D. you don't require any kind of 1 year teaching credential.
What does it all mean? Well it means that even if he wanted to, no Ph.D. in his right mind would go back for 1 more year of schooling just to teach high school. It's far easier to just apply for community college! That's the predicament I'm currently in. I love to teach and have a Ph.D.. I was looking at both High School and Community College. When I realized that I have to go back to school a whole year just to teach High School (which pays less than community college). I said fuck that, I'm teaching Community College!
Basically long story short. The system is set up in a way that makes it easier for people with lower degrees, who may not understand the topic as well as someone of higher education, teach high school over people who are much much more qualified.
|
I see a lot of complaints by college kids here about their professors. Keep in mind that if you go to research university, you won't be spoonfed materials by your professor or your TA, especially in freshman baby courses in calculus, linear algebra, whatever.
In high school you expect teachers to go at a much slower pace, go over all the trivial homework assignments on the board with you, give feedbacks with many quizzes, tests, whatever. Yes, you were sheltered, and you expect the world will continue to shelter you.
You come to college, you're a young adult. You'll be treated as one. One of the things you're learning in college is how to be independent, and take matters into your own hands. You don't understand something? Go bother your TA, your professor's office hours, use the libraries, ask your buddies, find resources - there are many in most universities. Be proactive. Just stop complaining that your professor or your TA is not spending 24/7 making lectures notes just to make you happy. Most of the TA's or Professors are actually quite happy and willing to discuss course matters with you if they see that you're really trying to learn. Yes, it takes effort on your part (surprise!) to learn the materials well. The world really doesn't center around you once you get out of high school, ok? Stop being a lazy whining baby and please grow up.
Also many professors have different view of the topics than you do, and have varying teaching styles. Some of them might stick to textbooks, have very rigid course plans. Some others may design the course so that you learn the formal properties from textbooks, and the lectures cover the "intuitions" of them - often times if you really take the time to understand it with patience, you'll see just how valuable a lot of those talks are.
Ask yourselves these:
1) Are you really trying to learn the material by putting genuine effort on your part?
2) Are you going to the office hours or are you just sitting lazy back home complaining about some parts of the lectures you don't understand?
3) Did you really think learning something is easy and it's purely based on lecture notes?
|
On October 14 2010 14:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
Ever gone and talked to your teacher after class about your problems?
pretty much this
|
On October 15 2010 04:10 mieda wrote:
I see a lot of complaints by college kids here about their professors. Keep in mind that if you go to research university, you won't be spoonfed materials by your professor or your TA, especially in freshman baby courses in calculus, linear algebra, whatever.
In high school you expect teachers to go at a much slower pace, go over all the trivial homework assignments on the board with you, give feedbacks with many quizzes, tests, whatever. Yes, you were sheltered, and you expect the world will continue to shelter you.
You come to college, you're a young adult. You'll be treated as one. One of the things you're learning in college is how to be independent, and take matters into your own hands. You don't understand something? Go bother your TA, your professor's office hours, use the libraries, ask your buddies, find resources - there are many in most universities. Be proactive. Just stop complaining that your professor or your TA is not spending 24/7 making lectures notes just to make you happy. Most of the TA's or Professors are actually quite happy and willing to discuss course matters with you if they see that you're really trying to learn. Yes, it takes effort on your part (surprise!) to learn the materials well. The world really doesn't center around you once you get out of high school, ok? Stop being a lazy whining baby and please grow up.
Also many professors have different view of the topics than you do, and have varying teaching styles. Some of them might stick to textbooks, have very rigid course plans. Some others may design the course so that you learn the formal properties from textbooks, and the lectures cover the "intuitions" of them - often times if you really take the time to understand it with patience, you'll see just how valuable a lot of those talks are.
Ask yourselves these:
1) Are you really trying to learn the material by putting genuine effort on your part?
2) Are you going to the office hours or are you just sitting lazy back home complaining about some parts of the lectures you don't understand?
3) Did you really think learning something is easy and it's purely based on lecture notes?
This is the best post by far... If you aren't doing your part to learn the material, how can they do their part?
To the blog owner:
You complain about not being able to speak an ounce of French after taking four years of French. How much effort did you put in on your part? I bet you only attended class and did the one hour worth of homework that was due. That's hardly enough to learn a language. You probably didn't go out and rent French film, study the dialog, or even attempt to find people online to practice with. You can't blame teachers for your own laziness.
The two things that really bothers me when people talk about their failures:
1. It's not my fault I am not able to understand it, other people are just bad at teaching it
2. I know I am a motivated person and I can do it if I wanted to, but I just don't want to try
|
i'm in university too op.
I'm not a badass genius, but i learned more on the internetz than by my teachers 
|
On October 15 2010 02:23 Cambium wrote:To follow up on my comment earlier Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 13:58 Cambium wrote:
just wait until university, you haven't seen bad teachers yet... At the university level, some profs simply don't give a shit about teaching as they may wish to focus their attentions elsewhere such as research or university/departmental bureaucracy, so they literally give the worst lectures ever. This is especially painful when these profs teach foundation courses such as linear algebra (so that you are fucked throughout your university career) or advanced topics (you take them because you have an interest, yet you learn absolutely nothing). Also, you have to keep in mind that high school teachers typically are not the cream of the crop. While some are extremely passionate about teaching, sadly, most of them simply see it as just another job, something you do to get by in life. On a side note, I volunteered at a local highschool three times a week assisting/teaching Gr. 12 calculus during my senior year, and I really enjoyed it. This might be something I want to do after I retire :D
Yeah, I've been really lucky in my semester so far. I guess I fluked out and got all the best professors from what I've seen. On the other hand, my TAs are pretty bad. You can tell that they know their stuff, but they have absolutely no idea how to convey it in an understandable fashion. My Calculus TA just writes stuff on the board and talks really quietly, and my Physics TA gives examples that are like 2 years ahead of where we are :/.
I really agree with the part about liking to teach, I taught Karate for half a year and really enjoyed the process of it. Becoming a Professor myself is something that I've been considering, but that's a bit far ahead yet.
Anyways, to the OP: Good Luck! As someone else said, High School physics is pretty much worthless :S
|
On October 15 2010 00:41 Atom Cannister wrote:
I had 14 years of Irish and I can barely speak a word of it.
You have it better than that!
I can read french articles over the net perfectly but I can't speak a word of irish either. French teachers (especially if they're from france) actually teach you the language, instead of teaching you to say "how are you" and then making you learn off poetry analysis. lol.
Helps that the language is actually logical.
But anyways, teaching isn't exactly easy. It's very hard for someone who isn't naturally really good at explaining things to people to be a good teacher, and they need effort/feedback to improve. If they actually care you shouldn't bash them too hard. Physics is something you really should be able to try to understand yourself with some hard thinking. Teaching should NOT be a 1-way system. You need to think for yourself.
Here was my teachers method of teaching french;
1- Have a grammar book of all grammar lessons and regularly test yourself on all irregular verb conjuagtions+grammar tenses, etc
2 - Have a vocabulary book which you take down any word you encounter you don't know, look it up in the dictionary (this is tedious as hell) and then write the translation beside it. (colour coding is good). Read at least 1 article in this fashion a week, highlighting unknown words/phrases (watch out for stuff like subjunctive verbs that seem like real words) then looking them all up.
3 - Have 1 writing exercise to do a week and try to get it corrected in terms of grammar. (not like your teacher will refuse this)
If you want to be able to speak it, you need to practice oral//listen to french speakers a lot as well.
Also, as a preliminary make sure you understand how to say french words properly. e grave, e acute, NO h, don't pronouce last letter. -tion is pronouced -ssee-on
Can't think of anything else h aven't done french in a couple years but I found this method fantastic for having a thorough knowledge of the language and not some crappy learned off stuff. (you can learn specific phrases as "vocabulary" though)
|
I'd be glad to help you out in both French and Physics if you need it, just PM me.
|
On October 15 2010 04:10 mieda wrote:
I see a lot of complaints by college kids here about their professors. Keep in mind that if you go to research university, you won't be spoonfed materials by your professor or your TA, especially in freshman baby courses in calculus, linear algebra, whatever.
This is a very good point. If you're going to have a crappy prof, it's better to have it in a less important/difficult course.
I had a shitty prof for Cal 3 though..... Was not a fun experience..... About half the class dropped it before the deadline because they knew they would fail it, I decided to try to stick it out, only to be part of the half of the remainder that failed anyways..... Barely failed (I got a 58 on the final and needed a 60), but failed nonetheless.....
|
I can help you in French if you want.
|
I had an English teacher in 8th grade that spend the whole period yelling at students. I would just do grammar homework in his class all day. I remember one time he assigned us a project to make a kite, and we flew them during English class LOL.
It's funny because he got caught with having pictures of the students, as well as porn, on his personal computer a couple years later. I don't know why they haven't fired him, though...
|
On October 14 2010 13:14 imBLIND wrote:
I despise teachers that can't teach at all.
High school physics is a pain in the butt if you have a teacher that can't explain it right to you. I might as well just get a tutor and take the AP exam rather than sit in the class itself.
Hey man can't say it gets much better from there. I lucked out and had a great mechanics professor (who actually taught my step-dad 20 years ago when he went here) but now I have a shitty electricity and magnetism one.
Also in my systems programming class (programming in C) the prof goes off on these random tangents about things vaguely related like memory addresses, wondering what the code of some built in library functions look like and showing it to us like we need to know what's in it, etc. Kills me, I don't learn shit except when we have projects and then I have to dig myself out of a huge hole because that's when everything starts to click.
You're always going to get one somewhere imo.
(PS: took 3 years of french and don't remember nearly any of it either, fucking high school)
|
On October 15 2010 09:22 Hizzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 13:14 imBLIND wrote:
I despise teachers that can't teach at all.
High school physics is a pain in the butt if you have a teacher that can't explain it right to you. I might as well just get a tutor and take the AP exam rather than sit in the class itself.
Hey man can't say it gets much better from there. I lucked out and had a great mechanics professor (who actually taught my step-dad 20 years ago when he went here) but now I have a shitty electricity and magnetism one. You're always going to get one somewhere imo. (PS: took 3 years of french and don't remember nearly any of it either, fucking high school)
Do you go to Binghamton by any chance? lol because thats exactly what I'm going through.
|
On October 15 2010 09:18 PoopLord wrote:
It's funny because he got caught with having pictures of the students, as well as porn, on his personal computer a couple years later. I don't know why they haven't fired him, though...
Because it's ridiculously difficult to get fired as a highschool teacher...
|
When i took Spanish in high school, i had the same teacher for four years. She was a horrible teacher, because she would teach random stuff that would not even help for any test or exam she would give later on, and she would get really mad at us for doing bad. I took Spanish for 8 years and yet I did not feel like i learned anything when she taught me.
She probably would have gotten fired if it wasn't for the fact that all the guys and girls loved her because she was a freakin drop dead gorgeous latina babe. It really sucks though that people who little to no teaching experience get paid so much to do a crappy job.
|
On October 15 2010 09:22 Hizzo wrote:
Also in my systems programming class (programming in C) the prof goes off on these random tangents about things vaguely related like memory addresses, wondering what the code of some built in library functions look like and showing it to us like we need to know what's in it, etc. Kills me, I don't learn shit except when we have projects and then I have to dig myself out of a huge hole because that's when everything starts to click.
I had a similar type of prof. Fortunately for me, I had some background in Perl and Java, but learning C was a pain in the ass still. It was pretty interesting imo to see where some of those tangents would lead though (although I'm sure 80% of my class was in the same position as you were).
|
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc..
|
On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc..
I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite.
The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans.
You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction.
|
On October 15 2010 13:07 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc.. I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite. The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction.
Sure, so what are you going to do if you do meet a professor whom you can't understand? I'm giving most kids here a little advice on how to take matters into your own hands. Most of what I hear here are lines and lines of complaints, with no suggestion of what to do . So what if your professor can't teach? Either 1) You form some justice alliance to throw away the evil tyrant or 2) Deal with it. Take your pick. I'm giving a suggestion on what to do if you decide to pick option #2.
And the way I see it, you're mostly paying the tuition so you can get your high horse titles anyway.
|
On October 15 2010 13:13 mieda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 13:07 Cambium wrote:On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc.. I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite. The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction. Sure, so what are you going to do if you do meet a professor whom you can't understand? I'm giving most kids here a little advice on how to take matters into your own hands. Most of what I hear here are lines and lines of complaints, with no suggestion of what to do . So what if your professor can't teach? Either 1) You form some justice alliance to throw away the evil tyrant or 2) Deal with it. Take your pick. Or is this just another thread where people only rant, with no constructive suggestions? If so, then I apologize and continue ranting.
If what you said was truly a "suggestion", then it is indeed valuable. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to infer from your apparently equivocating phraseology that, "if you don't understand the professor, then it is your fault for not trying hard enough".
I am just glad that we have your original intentions cleared up, because I'm happy that you acknowledge that some profs are just horrible, and to compensate for their ineptitudes in teaching, the students need to work harder, which may not be a bad thing.
|
On October 15 2010 13:24 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 13:13 mieda wrote:On October 15 2010 13:07 Cambium wrote:On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc.. I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite. The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction. Sure, so what are you going to do if you do meet a professor whom you can't understand? I'm giving most kids here a little advice on how to take matters into your own hands. Most of what I hear here are lines and lines of complaints, with no suggestion of what to do . So what if your professor can't teach? Either 1) You form some justice alliance to throw away the evil tyrant or 2) Deal with it. Take your pick. Or is this just another thread where people only rant, with no constructive suggestions? If so, then I apologize and continue ranting. If what you said was truly a "suggestion", then it is indeed valuable. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to infer from your apparently equivocating phraseology that, "if you don't understand the professor, then it is your fault for not trying hard enough".
More, "if you don't understand the professor, it only does you good to assume that you're inadequate and you ought to do something about it for your own benefit."
I am just glad that we have your original intentions cleared up, because I'm happy that you acknowledge that some profs are just horrible, and to compensate for their ineptitudes in teaching, the students need to work harder, which may not be a bad thing.
Great!
|
All throughout my high school years, most of the high school teachers seemed to me as people that failed to do well in their field of study and resorted to a safe boring job. With the exception of a few great teachers who loved teaching and cared for the students, majority of high school teachers turned out to be idiots.
Despite what you may have heard in school... wikipedia will teach almost anything better than the high school teacher. Guaranteed. This is assuming you have the patience and the study skills to self-learn from wikipedia articles, but I think an average high-schooler can do it just fine.
As most people said above, university/college professors tend to be much much better (for obvious reasons).
|
On October 15 2010 13:13 mieda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 13:07 Cambium wrote:On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc.. I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite. The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction. Sure, so what are you going to do if you do meet a professor whom you can't understand? I'm giving most kids here a little advice on how to take matters into your own hands. Most of what I hear here are lines and lines of complaints, with no suggestion of what to do . So what if your professor can't teach? Either 1) You form some justice alliance to throw away the evil tyrant or 2) Deal with it. Take your pick. I'm giving a suggestion on what to do if you decide to pick option #2. And the way I see it, you're mostly paying the tuition so you can get your high horse titles anyway.
However, aren't we entitled to gain knowledge through an intermediary that not only has the desire to teach us but has skill?
What is genius without the proper ability to COMMUNICATE with one's apprentices. These students are the very next generation that will be commandeering the future. The school is entitled to hire teachers who are proficient and can do their job properly. This point can be expounded upon ,but I have little time to waste today.
Furthermore, there is the idea of locum parentis . This entitles the school to be responsible in not only the legal matters that involve the student but to make sure the student is prepared for life. If the student does not have a teacher that can successfully help the student, then he is worthless. If you have twenty dollars as opposed to one, but the vending machine does not accept bills past one and there is no immediate area (that you can go to without expending excessive amounts of energy) then the twenty dollras is worthless.
A nobel laureate that cannot express his ideas is more worthless than a sub-par and mediocre teacher than can guide his students. Though, it would be preferred to have a sort of segway or compromise between the two.
Taking action is obviously a valid point, I don't disagree at all. In fact, that is important, the generation nowadays lacks the fortitude and resolve to achieve what they want. They expect the greatest things in life to come with minimal effort. Impossible that is, however, without an intermediary between knowledge and the avid learner, it is more fault upon the school than the student.
|
On October 15 2010 14:15 kineSiS- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 13:13 mieda wrote:On October 15 2010 13:07 Cambium wrote:On October 15 2010 11:21 mieda wrote:
I speak from the perspective of both a student and a teacher.
One should also be aware that the lecturer may think of things not exactly the way you want it. It may not be packaged just right for you at the time of your taking the course, and it will most likely benefit you to see different perspectives of the same material. Believe it or not, there are actually many different ways of approaching the same topics.
I have many personal experiences of this, where the first time it happened to me when I was an undergrad I almost panic and freaked out from "how the hell am I going to ever make it through this course?!" but when my back was against the wall and just tried my best to survive (by going to office hours, bothering my professor, TA/CA, looking up resources in library, etc..), I actually came out really understanding how these people viewed the subject. It was beautiful! From hindsight, I would not want a life where I had given up, threw my hands in the air, and just blamed the lecturer for my own inadequacy.
Yes, it is scary at first, it's different from what you're used to (the easy packaging of the materials where everything is in cruise-mode). And yes, it takes effort on your part to try to understand how the lecturer is thinking of the subject. And yes, it is much easier to give up and blame the course/the lecturer for your inadequacy. And yes, this is what genuine learning entails. Don't expect it to be easy. You're going to have to be proactive and stop waiting passively for learning to happen. It's going to be hard, but also rewarding.
Most real learning is non-linear. You don't have one textbook or rigid source guiding you through it step by step (unless it's a very well understood subject like baby calculus or baby linear algebra, but even then you're going to have to learn it non-linear if you want to learn it well). You need to look up and read neighboring resources (or ahead of the books, and work backwards even), ask questions actively, and try to really understand by trial and error on your part - invent your own examples, be creative with them. In process, you may just as well find your own way of doing things. Great! Compare it with how others think, amend, compromise, etc.. I feel like you are just baiting for someone to respond with your walls and walls of text, so I might as well take the bite. The ideals you stated are great, except it has nothing to do with the discussion. Topic of discussion: some people cannot teach for beans. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the assumption that every professors can teach properly; note, simply knowing the material well does not make you a good professor, you need to be able to explain it to the students. No, it should not be up to the student to spend extra time to learn on his own if the prof writes walls of ambiguous text while speaking to the board. While most students are capable of learning the material in a proactive manner, it's ridiculous to just dismiss the prof's responsibility of giving clear and understandable lectures. After all, each student pays thousands of dollars per class, and is entitled to the service of being lectured to a degree of satisfaction. Sure, so what are you going to do if you do meet a professor whom you can't understand? I'm giving most kids here a little advice on how to take matters into your own hands. Most of what I hear here are lines and lines of complaints, with no suggestion of what to do . So what if your professor can't teach? Either 1) You form some justice alliance to throw away the evil tyrant or 2) Deal with it. Take your pick. I'm giving a suggestion on what to do if you decide to pick option #2. And the way I see it, you're mostly paying the tuition so you can get your high horse titles anyway. However, aren't we entitled to gain knowledge through an intermediary that not only has the desire to teach us but has skill? What is genius without the proper ability to COMMUNICATE with one's apprentices. These students are the very next generation that will be commandeering the future. The school is entitled to hire teachers who are proficient and can do their job properly. This point can be expounded upon ,but I have little time to waste today. Furthermore, there is the idea of locum parentis . This entitles the school to be responsible in not only the legal matters that involve the student but to make sure the student is prepared for life. If the student does not have a teacher that can successfully help the student, then he is worthless. If you have twenty dollars as opposed to one, but the vending machine does not accept bills past one and there is no immediate area (that you can go to without expending excessive amounts of energy) then the twenty dollras is worthless. A nobel laureate that cannot express his ideas is more worthless than a sub-par and mediocre teacher than can guide his students. Though, it would be preferred to have a sort of segway or compromise between the two. Taking action is obviously a valid point, I don't disagree at all. In fact, that is important, the generation nowadays lacks the fortitude and resolve to achieve what they want. They expect the greatest things in life to come with minimal effort. Impossible that is, however, without an intermediary between knowledge and the avid learner, it is more fault upon the school than the student.
Not sure why you're starting this post with "However," since what you're saying here doesn't really contradict anything I said. As I said, I was only giving a suggestion if people decide to take option #2 in my previous post.
You seem to be branching off now, giving ideals on how the system should be. Sure, all agreed. No contradiction to anything I said. You're engendering a new topic.
With that said, I'm going to ask the beginning college students here to give some benefit of doubt to the professors.
|
However, aren't we entitled to gain knowledge through an intermediary that not only has the desire to teach us but has skill?
In a word: no. Not if you're at a research institution.
However, aren't we entitled to gain knowledge through an intermediary that not only has the desire to teach us but has skill?
Generally if you choose to go to a research institution (as opposed to a more liberal-arts-ish school), you should have some idea about what you're buying into. At a glance:
-Professors whose tenure, and the jobs of basically all the students/postdocs working under him, is dependent basically on the quality of research. And those that do don't have a huge incentive to teach well anyways.
-TAs who have their own coursework, and are probably more busy figuring out what research group to join (which will basically be their life for the next 4-6 years, dependant on field).
But as far as training and being immersed in the research going on the field, I think there's no comparison. That said, I know quite a few people in my class who came from the liberal arts college background that are far more knowledgeable than me.
As far as coursework, you are buying a lottery w/ your tuition. In undergrad, I've had great professors, some mediocre, some terrible. If you looked at ~school ranking~ and made that the basis for your entire decision, then its completely your fault. As mieda says, Deal with it.
Again, caveat emptor--be sure you know what you're buying into (maybe this will help some people w/ their college applications, I hope).
These students are the very next generation that will be commandeering the future. The school is entitled to hire teachers who are proficient and can do their job properly.
Oh :cripes:. A good teacher does not necessarily make a good research advisor, and vice versa.
Guess which quality is more important in most contexts?
Some concerns are far greater than spoonfeeding material to people that lack the initiative to find the answers themselves.
The school is entitled to hire teachers who are proficient and can do their job properly.
I think you mean 'bound' or 'obligated' instead of entitled; in any case, this is simply not the case at most universities.
This entitles the school to be responsible in not only the legal matters that involve the student but to make sure the student is prepared for life.
The school substituting as parent as guardian and moral teacher has basically proved to be a trainwreck.
If the student does not have a teacher that can successfully help the student, then he is worthless.
Its this mentality exactly, that evokes the current state of the American education system, which in Tony Woodlief's words "[takes] a naturally inquisitive child—which is to say nearly every child—and transmogrifying him into a dullard who has no interest in learning".
While certainly teachers shouldn't be expected to be cretins, I think what most of the complainers on this thread are demanding far more; that they be taught the subject in a way that enables them to master material with little effort expended.
A nobel laureate that cannot express his ideas is more worthless than a sub-par and mediocre teacher than can guide his students.
As someone who has sat/stood through 4~ Nobel laureate lectures, I can attest that some of them aren't the best lecturers (read: incredibly boring), but people still turn out in droves listen to them, and for good reason.
Even though the delivery may not be inspiring, the science is, and that's enough for some people.
Impossible that is, however, without an intermediary between knowledge and the avid learner, it is more fault upon the school than the student.
Its not like there's abyss separating the student from knowledge, crossable only w/ the guidance of a teacher.
The internet, for a series of a tubes, is an amazingly useful tool for learning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
