A little background about me first, as interesting as it is. I played chess from 6th grade through 12 for whatever school I was at, going to national tournaments and everything. It was a lot of fun, and I developed a pretty strategic mind from all that. After chess got boring, I started poker, which was also very fun for the strategic and abstract depth. However, back in february, I started to focus on starcraft 2, as I had gotten a new computer JUST to play this game. I got the comp through playing poker/owning newbs at casinos So, when I got a beta key, I jumped into the starcraft world.
The only experience I have with BW consisted of fastest map games during middle school, which was fun for my age. So, knowing nothing at all, I started watching pro vids on youtube, and learned just about every SC1 pro who ever existed. I spent more time watching pro bw replays, understanding neither the korean announcers nor the strategies I was witnessing, than I did doing homework last semester. But it was great, I really got an understanding for how deep and great bw is, which only made me all the more excited for when SC2 beta ended and it came out. Then, it came out.
I climbed the ladder pretty fast, hit diamond 5 which I've sat at for about a week, and now I'm totally sick of the game. Maybe one in 15 games do I find its a real strategic battle, a test of who is better. The rest it seems you win or lose for build order reasons or unscouted anything. Now, I'm totally setting myself up for "noob, scout more lawlz", to which I just stare at you. This game doesn't seem to be such a test of one's mind than knowing exactly what the other person is doing and then hard counter it. All while blocking protoss cannon cheese, all-in reapers, 1 basing to collosus, one basing to marines with no gas, one basing...I could keep going, but thats my point. It doesn't feel like a BATTLE of the minds as much as it should/could be, or at least in the way I want it to be.
So there, now everyone can laugh/hate at me, but whatever, this just isn't a fun game.
Mix it up a bit. Try team games or try for achievements for the hell of it. That's what I do. Though I have been thinking more and more about playing me some nice MW2 :D
It sounds like you've discovered laddering isn't fun, not that the game isn't fun. Find some friends and practice partners to play against, sign up for some tournaments, etc. You can still enjoy SC2 without grinding the ladder every day.
Thing is this game isn't as figured out as BW, so people can't play as much mind games as they did in BW because people still don't know how to react against things I don't know much about brood war but I know everything is like totally dissected and is a science so to speak, an example with no knowledge if it's true or not would be like as a Zerg you scout 1 extra pylon and an extra gate so you get exactly 3 more zerglings any more and you'll be behind economically any less and you'll die. In Starcraft 2 If you see 2 gates with chrono boost you just make more defense but there is no exact number of what you should make, so then back to the BW example you can trick them out into wasting their minerals on lings while you get probes and get a bigger eco advantage in SC2 people might not even make those lings so you can't rely on people knowing what to do 100% of the time. I hope that made sense. Still I think the best thing for you to do is stick it out and continue playing and learning so in 10 years or whatever the game will be just like BW and you'll be great at it :p.
I really hope I made sense (saying this again)
-Laggy
tl;dr: SC2 is still an infant blooming with mysteries.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the majoriy of criticism from the bw community about sc2 is that it is too easy.
And by that, I mean mechanically. Bw is a better "thinking" game too, but a reason why starcraft is so good is because you legitimately need mechanical skill to play and it feels more competitive in that sense. No matter how good you are, the game still should feel like a fast paced battle between your mutlitasking/apm and strategy.
If you're looking for a thinking game, starcraft laddering (As others have pointed out, laddering is different) is not your thing then.
It's easy to get bored of something quickly if you don't have an end goal in mind. Make a long term goal that will be hard to reach so that it will motivate you to continue to play. Like people have suggested there are other areas of the game than just 1v1 ladder. Play some tournaments, make some friends, play some 2v2s, etc, etc...
Lol it's so sad to see how one by one people are seeing sc2 for what it is. And by sad I mean this early when the game is so young. Hope expansions will get situation much better, but I doupt it.
Picked beta out, played it couple of weeks and when it ended didn't even think twice about buying the actual game.
Haha, I've done almost everything you've done. I've played chess since 6th grade to now, competing in national competitions. After a while, I've moved on to poker and starcraft, earning a bit of income online and stomping friends at BW. I think you're right about the game. It's a lot of cheese (maybe not 14 in 15), but regardless, a large aspect of SC2 gameplay is fighting off cheese. It's probably not going to change, since BroodWar was similar. However, in my opinion, that one game of strategic battles is completely worth it. I think that one game can be compared to a chess match, or even some good heads up poker play. It's the situation of two people, starting in the same position, and fighting to move their way up. That ideal game is a lot of fun, and I encourage you to play a couple games with friends, or someone you know will play you straight up, and see if you experience the same satisfaction that I do. I don't think trying BroodWar would be the answer for your situation. BroodWar was largely more mechanically demanding, disguising the more strategic aspects of the game. As a player of both, I think because BroodWar was more mechanically difficult, there was a lot less standard play. It would always be either my opponent cheesing me (about half the games) or trying to do that standard FLASH build, and completely failing at the mechanical aspects of it. BroodWar was not as strategically fun as I believe SC2 to be now because of the difficulty of the game. As a veteran of chess and poker, I don't think doing the same build, or seeing the same situation over and over again should faze you. I mean, chess, poker, and Starcraft are just about performing the same build over and over again, to a point where the real strategy begins. I hope that the difficulty in reaching that point for Starcraft won't deter you from reaching the happiness that stomping people will bring you.
sc2 is nowhere near as fun as bw ever was for me i've played about 30 hours of the multiplayer game for now, and the only time I ever even laughed or smiled was when my friends and I did stupid shit to pub newbs
Classic. I guess you know the answer by now. Personally, my sc2 quota is used up by playing about once a week. That way it remains quite entertaining. Just don't go to the sc2 forum though, you'll lose all faith in humanity.
There is some merit to your dissatisfaction with the game. There is a rock paper sissors quality to starcraft. What your opponent is doing when you don't know is of utmost importance. Still it is not so much the game that is not fun but rather your relationship to it.
Take a hard look at at nonys post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158486¤tpage=23 That is a well informed perspective. I have little doubt he understands the rps aspects of play better than you do. As he put it, much of the strategy is figuring out the safe boring builds. And he has not given up on sc2 yet in this regards to the rps aspect.
Personally, I don't find the game a joy or much fun. I simply view the game as an interaction of possibilities. You are part of the whole playing out these possibilities and coming to a greater understanding of them. To me it is mostly just an interesting deep activity. Some probably mostly like the competitiveness of it. Some like seeing themselves improve. Some stay mostly for the community. If you don't find something worthwhile anymore, so be it.
So you've played about 15 1v1 RTS games ever and then you make a blanket statement saying there is hardly any strategy in SC2? It doesn't matter how much BW you watched (last semester lol) you're understanding of in-game strategy will be very shallow/simplistic and alot of the time you won't be able to see how you lost and blame it on something vague like 'build orders' or '1 basing'. There is so much depth in this game and its predecessor, the more you play the more it will reward you as you see the game in a new light and start on the long road to what Flash calls 'enlightenment'.
On October 07 2010 12:22 Scarecrow wrote: So you've played about 15 1v1 RTS games ever and then you make a blanket statement saying there is hardly any strategy in SC2?
On October 07 2010 09:28 SpartiK1S wrote: Maybe one in 15 games do I find its a real strategic battle
He said that 1 in 15 games comes down to strategy, not that he'd only played 15 games ever of sc2 or 15 rts titles. It's not clear which you're suggesting.
On October 07 2010 12:22 Scarecrow wrote: So you've played about 15 1v1 RTS games ever and then you make a blanket statement saying there is hardly any strategy in SC2? It doesn't matter how much BW you watched (last semester lol) you're understanding of in-game strategy will be very shallow/simplistic and alot of the time you won't be able to see how you lost and blame it on something vague like 'build orders' or '1 basing'. There is so much depth in this game and its predecessor, the more you play the more it will reward you as you see the game in a new light and start on the long road to what Flash calls 'enlightenment'.
how can you be so sure when no one has reached this so called 'enlightenment' for sc2?
I agree with almost everything you said except for the game not being fun. FYI most people dont play video games for their strategic aspects. Most people play video games because they're entertaining, semi-mindless and they let you do crazy shit. Maybe you might have made a few too many assumptions when you said "this game just isn't fun" ......just maybe.
you should try to play in tournaments. the competition level is considerably higher and there is more focus on mechanical, strategical, and positional elements of the game.
EPT
So, when I got a beta key, I jumped into the starcraft world.
