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Thats the replay. It is around 1200 diamond level. Download it and skim through the game. There are two major fights. I want you to put emphasis on the last fight. If you don't watch the replay or don't want to contribute please just don't reply. ezpz
Now here is my description of this game, and why it is particularly vulgar to me:
-APM. Throughout the entire match, I am at 100apm and my opponent is at 50. Yes, APM isn't the be all endall, but just keep in mind that I am Doubling the actions per minute of my opponent. That is staggering.
-Food advantage. Throughout the entire game I hold a food advantage of ~5 on average. I am a superior macro player, and was ahead even in the early game because of macro mistakes by my opponent.
-His first major timing push. This was a medium sized push and I was able to fend it off with some good forcefield usage. It wasn't the best, but did the job.
----- From here normally it would be GG. However, he was STILL sitting in his base. I of course decide not to suicide up his ramp, but instead expand like you should after defeating a large terran force as protoss.
-I am now on 2 bases with a 5-10 harvester advantage. This doesn't matter at all, as at most times he matched my 2base income just by using Mules. This is my first major complaint. The mules are bolstering his economy so much that he is able to match a protoss player who is on 2bases with more workers. This is vulgar.
-I have an observer. I know exactly what he is doing. Also, I take over the map. If he tries to ninja, I know about it. I have pylons and probes everywhere. +1 to me. I pretty much knew he was only on 1base and wasn't going to expand anytime soon.
-I am teching up to TIER3. He has 0 tier3 units, and all he has is stim/conc shell and ghosts. Not even 1 medivac was built this game. Just tier1/2 units.
The last fight starts, I have a 17 food advantage:
-I should have spread my army out and not 1Ad. Don't say it, cause trust me, this loss killed me. I knew if I had 1a2a3a'd (like my sig) I would have won this fight and ultimately the game. However, the ramifications of this are annoying to me because of the following:
1. EMP Raped my army. It was simply rape. No question. My chargelots were vaporized, my immortals, vaporized, everything, just destroyed. I got EMPd before I could storm so my templar was useless. (THANKS BLIZZ FOR 10 EMP RANGE). He had 0 medivacs, yet my tier1/2/3 army was unable to even hinder his push.
2. He 1Ad. This is really annoying. Terran is awarded for 1A play, whilst my army positioning and micro needs to be pristine. This is so vulgar. I do not appreciate having to play with this handicap. Basically terran micro can be nonexistant, and still win.
3. Stim. After blowing up my nat, he was able to power into my base in seconds. This army composition by him has such absurd DPS. It is just absurd. Like I said, its vulgar.
Thoughts on winning:
Yea I could have won by spreading out. I also should have ghost sniped with feedback. A few more gateways would definitely have helped. Yes, these would have been my keys to victory.
Final Thoughts:
I obviously outplayed this guy. His final push was literally a 1A. He cut SCVs for the entire second half of the game. He didn't make a single SCV after the first fight, meanwhile adding 3 more rax. Ghosts are the most ridiculous unit, and I believe that EMP should have to be researched. This is the strongest, highest DPS 1base push in the game, in any matchup (PvT, 5rax Ghost). This game really goes against the spirit of starcraft. My macro lead didn't do anything, and I probably would have been better off actually NOT expanding, lol. After the game I watched the replay, and for the first time ever I wasn't beating myself up. I said "well, I 1Ad, but so did he.. I macrod better, but he won..". This game left me speechless and really makes me want to express how stupid the Mule mechanic is, and how cheap the tier1/tier2 terran army. With his 29 SCVs on 1base he was able to literally just power forward on 1base the entire game. I talked to him after the game, and we played a few rematches and I won EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. It just goes to show that terran can still win despite being outplayed alot of the time, and 1base play is really really managable for bad players who are still in diamond.
I really don't like 1base terran pushes, and it goes against the spirit of starcraft. All of the lessons we learn about macro in starcraft are counteracted by terran, and it makes mid-diamond level players like myself really frustrated when going against players of lower skill levels. Yes, I 1A'd, but so did he. Yes, I didn't macro 100% efficiently, neither did he (by a long shot). His build will just completely roll over any protoss army that doesn't have more than 1 templar (we need multiple feedbacks/storms). I don't like that the ghost, a tier2 unit, is as good/better than the high templar. It really frustrates me and I have no patience for terran 1base scum. It is not fair, it is vulgar. PvT is a balanced matchup at the highest levels though. But for the rest of us, we will have fun losing to terribad 40apm terrans until we learn to overcome every single obstacle to beating them.
Thanks for reading.
(oh and I was going to do a drop until I saw his sensor tower which literally gave him vision of 6900000 miles of airspace behind his base...rofl.)
 
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Didn't watch the rep... but based on your post - I'm a little unclear on the last fight. Did he just 1A or did he use EMP and stim? You said both.
If you have higher APM - how he was able to EMP your templar (faster than you could storm him), get better position, and use multiple abilities (stim/emp) to win?
If you are the better player... then you have to let this loss go by. You'll win the majority of the time, but sometimes your opponent will get lucky. However, if he actually out micro'd you in moments where it really mattered... then he deserves the win.
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On a side note:
Looking at the mechanics of Terran and Protoss... I really don't understand how one would take more effort than the other. I'm diamond 1v1 and 2v2... most of my teammates are Protoss and they swear it is the easiest race to play. Warp stuff in anywhere, walk up cliffs, observers see everything, proxy voidrays FTW, etc.
And really, when you see players like Huk and Tester often dominating the best Terrans in the world... you have to wonder if there is really any imba issues in TvP. I haven't seen anybody at the highest levels even suggesting that. It's all ZvT issues... but low-level Protoss seem to be jumping on the bandwagon without reason.
EDIT: Watching the OPster banning everyone is kind of sad. What is the point in asking for feedback if you are going to reject anything people post? Do you just want everyone to agree with you? Oh wait, they wont... because TvP isn't imba. You already said exactly what you could have done to easily win... so what is the point of the thread?
Ignore "food" and "APM" stats... you already know a lack of micro is what lost you this game.
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Seems like all six times you wrote the word 'vulgar' you really wanted to write 'imba' instead. You put so much effort into your post that I would have watched the replay if someone didn't jack my laptop (and more importantly the sc2 installation on that laptop)
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Watch the replay if you want to contribute. EMP has a higher range than Templar, how exactly is my APM going to bridge the gap?
welcome to the ban list for the blog useless poster.
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You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain.
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I've lost to Terrans with 50-100 apm while mine is 250... (according to sc2gears). APM really means so much less when you play vs Terran. Not that my decision-making was perfect or even necessarily good, but T is seriously too easy to play...
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On September 30 2010 10:09 Rotodyne wrote:
Seems like all six times you wrote the word 'vulgar' you really wanted to write 'imba' instead.
The reason I write vulgar is because its beatable, just not at an equal skill level. If you gave me two starcraft gamers of equal skill the terran would win more because their race does not require as much attention to detail or precision.
If it was imba then Huk wouldn't be able to beat it. But Huk can, I just can't cause I'm not a top player.
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On September 30 2010 10:10 whitelynx wrote:
You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain.
Useless post, thanks. If the game was perfectly balanced this logic would hold, but it doesn't. Stay away from my blog. Thanks
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Your food advantage is irrelevant because Terran T1 is more efficient than Protoss T1-2. That's how it works, and the tradeoff is that T's later tiers can't match P. I'll watch the rep when I get home and give you some real comments, but here are my impressions:
Your harvester advantage isn't as relevant because you're investing in tech as much as units. It also means your supply advantage isn't in army count. Being caught teching to t3 is also P's huge weak point, because you have neither the force of mass T1.5/T2, or the power of T3. I lost a game similar to you yesterday around the 1300 level where I 1gate FE'd and got caved in by a 1base bio/ghost push. I do agree that Terran 1base is pretty damn ridiculous, but let's not dwell on that.
The second battle you mention you were caught by emp (on every ht? how many did you have), and still engaged, being destroyed. FB is pretty good but it can't always work due to range/positioning, but if you're emp'd for the love of god don't still try to fight, warpgate more hts and regroup if possible. You can throw away zeals if it means you get new hts to fight with.
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On September 30 2010 10:12 Surrealz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:10 whitelynx wrote:
You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain. Useless post, thanks. If the game was perfectly balanced this logic would hold, but it doesn't. Stay away from my blog. Thanks
So its the game's fault you lost?
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Before the final battle, you had every single one of your units in a ball, which literally asks a terran player to emp your entire army. If you used more effective spacing of your units, the EMPs would have been less effective, and your unit count advantage would have fully expressed itself.
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On September 30 2010 10:17 DaBears57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:12 Surrealz wrote:On September 30 2010 10:10 whitelynx wrote:
You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain. Useless post, thanks. If the game was perfectly balanced this logic would hold, but it doesn't. Stay away from my blog. Thanks So its the game's fault you lost?
Yes. Because EMP>Storm, and MM > Chargelots/Stalkers/Sentries, by a large margin. That is stupid.
Thanks, another ban
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On September 30 2010 10:21 Sc1pio wrote:
Before the final battle, you had every single one of your units in a ball, which literally asks a terran player to emp your entire army. If you used more effective spacing of your units, the EMPs would have been less effective, and your unit count advantage would have fully expressed itself.
I literally typed that like 8 times. Nice reply, read the OP before you post next time
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more APM does not equal better play.. lol such a BW statistic.. I cant recall how many 300+ APM zergs ive beaten on BW with my 150 apm..
From what it looks like, you just played bad. Stop making excuses, and learn to counter it better. Im a protoss player myself, and dont really have any issues vs terran. I wouldnt mind a marauder nerf, sure, but I dont lose games solely because of that, if I lose its because I fucked up. Thats how you should think too, like this game you clearly played worse, therefor you lost.
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On September 30 2010 10:22 Surrealz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:21 Sc1pio wrote:
Before the final battle, you had every single one of your units in a ball, which literally asks a terran player to emp your entire army. If you used more effective spacing of your units, the EMPs would have been less effective, and your unit count advantage would have fully expressed itself. I literally typed that like 8 times. Nice reply, read the OP before you post next time
I see it once in the OP, and only in passing between you blaming EMP, terran 1a, etc. for the loss.
Moreover, to bring in a BW analogy, a lot of lower level terrans had trouble with protoss seeing as they needed very good tank placement, mine placement, etc. and all protoss had to do was move his army in when he thought he had an advantage.
The moral of the story is, this hurdle is another obstacle you have to overcome in your play, and you'll improve more rapidly versus your opponent seeing as you can attribute something outside of balance to your loss (the spreading of your army, or at least I think you attribute some of this to it), and you'll grow as a player, whereas the terran will run into a wall when E-T-1a doesn't work anymore.
Take this as a learning experience.
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On September 30 2010 10:24 Skyze wrote:
more APM does not equal better play.. lol such a BW statistic.. I cant recall how many 300+ APM zergs ive beaten on BW with my 150 apm..
From what it looks like, you just played bad. Stop making excuses, and learn to counter it better. Im a protoss player myself, and dont really have any issues vs terran. I wouldnt mind a marauder nerf, sure, but I dont lose games solely because of that, if I lose its because I fucked up. Thats how you should think too, like this game you clearly played worse, therefor you lost.
But this player fucked in 3-4 different ways which I showed you empirically with numbers from the game, whilst my only fuck up was balling up (which he did too, rofl).
1A terran = acceptable
1A Toss or zerg = Not Acceptable
Until that mechanic changes I cannot take this game seriously or even call TvX remotely balanced. 40APM is really, really low by the way. Its bad.
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On September 30 2010 10:21 Surrealz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:17 DaBears57 wrote:On September 30 2010 10:12 Surrealz wrote:On September 30 2010 10:10 whitelynx wrote:
You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain. Useless post, thanks. If the game was perfectly balanced this logic would hold, but it doesn't. Stay away from my blog. Thanks So its the game's fault you lost? Yes. Because EMP>Storm, and MM > Chargelots/Stalkers/Sentries, by a large margin. That is stupid. Thanks, another ban
It's a lot harder to emp every ht in a P ball (and you should be massing the suckers as much as possible) than it is to drop an emp in the middle, the side, or the general vicinity of a bioball. You can very easily pre-target FBs when engaging (you saw where his army was, yes?), so T has to be absolutely precise with that 1 range or lose all his ghosts.
I don't think emp breaks storm, what it does it let T not get 1at'd by P (which, ironically, is exactly what you complained about him doing in the earlygame).
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On September 30 2010 10:27 Sc1pio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:22 Surrealz wrote:On September 30 2010 10:21 Sc1pio wrote:
Before the final battle, you had every single one of your units in a ball, which literally asks a terran player to emp your entire army. If you used more effective spacing of your units, the EMPs would have been less effective, and your unit count advantage would have fully expressed itself. I literally typed that like 8 times. Nice reply, read the OP before you post next time I see it once in the OP, and only in passing between you blaming EMP, terran 1a, etc. for the loss. Moreover, to bring in a BW analogy, a lot of lower level terrans had trouble with protoss seeing as they needed very good tank placement, mine placement, etc. and all protoss had to do was move his army in when he thought he had an advantage. The moral of the story is, this hurdle is another obstacle you have to overcome in your play, and you'll improve more rapidly versus your opponent seeing as you can attribute something outside of balance to your loss (the spreading of your army, or at least I think you attribute some of this to it), and you'll grow as a player, whereas the terran will run into a wall when E-T-1a doesn't work anymore. Take this is a learning experience.
This is quite true, but while I do like learning about these things, I also agree that the better player should win, and its frustrating playing against these allins on 1base. Mules are really, really annoying.
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Hey guys I can spam really hard and claim that I have massive APM and use that as a reason to complain/call imba when i lose!
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On September 30 2010 10:27 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 10:21 Surrealz wrote:On September 30 2010 10:17 DaBears57 wrote:On September 30 2010 10:12 Surrealz wrote:On September 30 2010 10:10 whitelynx wrote:
You did not play better if you lost.
Get that in your brain. Useless post, thanks. If the game was perfectly balanced this logic would hold, but it doesn't. Stay away from my blog. Thanks So its the game's fault you lost? Yes. Because EMP>Storm, and MM > Chargelots/Stalkers/Sentries, by a large margin. That is stupid. Thanks, another ban It's a lot harder to emp every ht in a P ball (and you should be massing the suckers as much as possible) than it is to drop an emp in the middle, the side, or the general vicinity of a bioball. You can very easily pre-target FBs when engaging (you saw where his army was, yes?), so T has to be absolutely precise with that 1 range or lose all his ghosts. I don't think emp breaks storm, what it does it let T not get 1at'd by P (which, ironically, is exactly what you complained about him doing in the earlygame).
I had 1 templar dude. Like I said, if he attacked like a minute later I would have won because of the 6+ templars I would have had. Unfortunatly protoss tier3 takes a year to make, meanwhile terran tier1/tier2 gives tier3 a run for its money.
Stupid mechanic, stupid matchup. Ghosts are a lame unit.
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EPT
