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I write this blog entry to discuss the significance of "artillery" type units and how they effect game.
Any extra insight I might have missed in this writeup is appreciated.
My favorite race would probably be Terran, followed closely by Protoss. I like the feel of Zerg, but I do not think my style of play works as well with them.
I have read many threads about zerg lacking something and there seem to be very different opinions of waht that something is.
That something ranges to "no early game", "creep is more of a limitation that a bonus", "roaches too expensive", the list goes on.
I think the reason is simpler, and that is they lack a unit that fits the mid game artillery role like the other 2 races to.
These units are the Siege Tank and the Collossus.
The benefit of having these two units in your composition is clear, not only do they provide powerfull splash damage but they also can be used to either force your opponent to engage or retreat if he does not have units that can match their range.
At the same time they also provide a mental aspect to the game, forcing the opponent to make the decision to engage the artillery, while getting attacked by the support army, or to engage the army while getting pummeled by the aoe artillery.
Simply put, these are two units that can control space extremely effectively.
They essentially force your opponent to do SOMETHING about them, or they will provide the needed cover for you to advance.
If you look at real warfare before the age of airstrikes, artillery this exact purpose: stopping an enemy advance, or providing cover for you advance.
Because of their strength if positioned and supported properly they become a intimidating force that has to be dealt with, by either getting a unit which can kill them (eg Vikings vs Collossi) or getting your own artillery to create a deadzone as we see often in TvT and PvP with tanks and collossi.
Zerg lacks a unit that fill this role untill the Broodlord, by which point the opponent has already solidified his position.
Before the broodlord the zerg does have the baneling, but the banelings hardly fill a role that tanks and collossi do. They do not possess the range to force a retreat or attack, and attacking with banelings often means commiting your army into an attack.
Furthermore, banelings are a 1 time deal, they explode and they are done, as such it is difficult to create the same presence on the map which a tank a collossi can create.
I hate to bring the lurker into this discussion because it has been discussed to death. Unfortunately there is a reason for those discussions. In BW the lurker filled the artillery role for zerg. Though with not as much range or power as the siege tank, because of burrow they were still effective in controlling space.
Blizzard said that the lurker was not put into the game because it overlaps roles with the baneling, unfortunately I think this is hardly the case as the baneling cannot control space.
I would like you to think how hard a terran base or a protoss base becomes to attack once a siege tank or a collossus is perched up behind some units guarding the ramp. It becomes extremely difficut to assault that base without losing more than you gain.
I feel that Zerg lacks such a unit. Looking through the history of warfare, it has been revolutionized by units that fit these roles. Starting with archers, moving on to cataputs, trebuchets, etc. Each becoming more mobile and powerfull as the last.
Until Zerg gets something that fits that role, I think they will be at a disadvantage against an even opponent who can abuse Zergs lack of range untill they get Broodlords.
 
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Yes, Zerg is underpowered and lame and boring but I'm seriously getting sick of all these posts attempting to analyze an entire race with severely limited insight and little skill / knowledge to back it up. Your argument is incredibly short sighted, sorry.
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Well if the Zerg is aware the attack is coming it's easy to delay it by fungaling the army which will make the push much weaker when it finally comes, allow you to get out more units, and since you know where his army is the whole time you can send out a bunch of lings to get a perfect flank as soon as he moves in for the attack. This would be their defenders advantage.
The infestor isn't an artillery unit, but it certainly helps control space.
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On September 23 2010 06:44 Najda wrote:
Well if the Zerg is aware the attack is coming it's easy to delay it by fungaling the army which will make the push much weaker when it finally comes, allow you to get out more units, and since you know where his army is the whole time you can send out a bunch of lings to get a perfect flank as soon as he moves in for the attack. This would be their defenders advantage.
The infestor isn't an artillery unit, but it certainly helps control space.
I did forget to mention infestors, I use them a lot when I play, and I am a fan of a certain stream that uses them (I forget the streamer name sorry, its PrinceSomething, the 2nd word is hard to remember)
But yes they work well, but are limited by energy and are not a contant presence.
On September 23 2010 06:41 SubtleArt wrote:
Yes, Zerg is underpowered and lame and boring but I'm seriously getting sick of all these posts attempting to analyze an entire race with severely limited insight and little skill / knowledge to back it up. Your argument is incredibly short sighted, sorry.
There is a reason this is in the blog section. I am simply sharing my opinion and see what thoughts people have on it. I could care less about arguing about it, I am looking for insight that I might have missed.
So unless you have any to add ...?
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"Simply put, these are two units that can control space extremely effectively."
I think this is more of the heart of the issue. Zerg lack a unit that controls space effectively. It doesn't necessarily need to be an artillery unit. The Templar and sentry both control space really well.
Infestors should fill this role, but their slow timing, cost, lackluster NP, expensive research costs, & high energy cost of FG makes this impractical.
FG to weaken a push also only really applies vs Terran as Protoss don't have any units weak to FG's damage (shields, higher hp units) and they have fast reinforcements (warp gate). Though it can still be useful for many things vs Protoss in battle.
Also this is a blog, if you don't want to hear about zerg balance concerns don't read the blogs about them. If this was ANOTHER post I'd agree, but I don't see the problem when it's a tucked away blog.
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On September 23 2010 06:46 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 06:44 Najda wrote:
Well if the Zerg is aware the attack is coming it's easy to delay it by fungaling the army which will make the push much weaker when it finally comes, allow you to get out more units, and since you know where his army is the whole time you can send out a bunch of lings to get a perfect flank as soon as he moves in for the attack. This would be their defenders advantage.
The infestor isn't an artillery unit, but it certainly helps control space. I did forget to mention infestors, I use them a lot when I play, and I am a fan of a certain stream that uses them (I forget the streamer name sorry, its PrinceSomething, the 2nd word is hard to remember) But yes they work well, but are limited by energy and are not a contant presence.
its xizor hes named after a star wars character. And I agree i think that infestors are going to have to be the new semi siege unit for zerg.
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You can keep whining, but you could also use the SEARCH FUNCTION!
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I'm not going to claim the game is balanced. However demanding that every race has access to every dynamic in the game is ridiculous. Asymmetry is one of the more important parts of an RTS. It is what makes playing terran feel different from zerg which again feels different to protoss. The broodlord, despite not being availible early is a great artillery unit though.
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There is a reason that many people, like me, dislike SC2, and ur pointing out one of the prime reasons. Everyone whines because each race isn't balanced on paper, so blizz does something to make it more balanced on paper, which makes the game more dull, and retarded overall. If you look at broodwar, the units from race to race are very imbalanced on paper. However this gives each race a unique style. For example, terrans strength is in seige tanks, thus terrans tend to play more defensive. Zergs strength is mobility and swarming, thus they expand all over the map, and mass a lot of fairly weak units, that gain strength in numbers and position. Thus, the more you cry about how every race isn't equal the shittier the game gets.
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Terran and protoss all have "suppressing fire" included, with units like the collosus and terran with the tanks, as mentioned. Zerg don't really have that unit that can strike fear like a fucking group of tanks. Lurkers were one.
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I completely disagree.
Protoss lacks a door breaking unit like Broodies and Ultralisks. Those two are /awesome/. They are both strong very sturdy units that can break entrenched positions.
What does toss have? Crappy carriers and a rather fragile collosi which is a lovely midgame unit, but doesnt have teh same enforcer power of Broodies and Ultras.
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The problem with Zerg right now is the fact that almost all of its extremely strong units are late-mid game (brood lords, ultras). The superior mobility of the zerg army makes the area-denial capacity of artillery much weaker than you say. Of course, tanks and colossi are both incredibly strong in their own right, but if anything its the maps that are giving Terrans and Protosses advantages (tankable expansions, easy harassment, lots of chokes and cliffs).
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isnt the point of zerg to make a fuckload of units and fight...they shouldnt have an overpowered units...Zerg should always outnumber the opponent..
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On September 23 2010 08:01 kineSiS- wrote:
You can keep whining, but you could also use the SEARCH FUNCTION!
This
There are a million other QQ threads, find one as opposed to starting your own. Oh and RE lurkers, just because a million people whine doesn't mean blizz is gonna change it, they have an idea of how Zerg should work and lurkers don't currently fit into it.
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Not gonna lie, I've been playing as Z for a few games now (to get an idea of how a Z player is going to respond to certain situations, basically using it to get better), and I really do miss the Lurker..... The Infestor and Banelings don't quite replace it for AoE damage.....
And my main is T in SC2.....
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On September 23 2010 10:08 Illusion. wrote:
isnt the point of zerg to make a fuckload of units and fight...they shouldnt have an overpowered units...Zerg should always outnumber the opponent..
SHOULD being the operative word...
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On September 23 2010 08:49 Chimpalimp wrote:
There is a reason that many people, like me, dislike SC2, and ur pointing out one of the prime reasons. Everyone whines because each race isn't balanced on paper, so blizz does something to make it more balanced on paper, which makes the game more dull, and retarded overall. If you look at broodwar, the units from race to race are very imbalanced on paper. However this gives each race a unique style. For example, terrans strength is in seige tanks, thus terrans tend to play more defensive. Zergs strength is mobility and swarming, thus they expand all over the map, and mass a lot of fairly weak units, that gain strength in numbers and position. Thus, the more you cry about how every race isn't equal the shittier the game gets.
Wrong.
In BW, Zerg had a mid-tier siege unit called Lurkers. And BW units are not imbalanced "on paper", if that was the case, the game wouldn't be as balanced as it is.
To me, the problem with the feel of SC2 is that the lethality of units and abilities have been toned down some from BW. In SC2, it seems like units are designed to feel more "fair". In BW, you could lose an entire group of MM to Lurkers (cloaked ranged splash!?!) in the blink of an eye if you weren't paying attention. Storm would rape your army. Reaver drops. Spider Mines. All of these are balanced, but appear to be extremely destructive. SC2 takes the middle ground between BW and WC3, albeit slightly closer to the BW side.
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EPT
