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I decided to switch from Terran to Protoss for a while to learn some new stuff. So anyways, aside from getting beat up by most people in my ladder, I've probably played around 15 PvT's.
In every single one of these games, no Terran attempted to play a standard macro game. Some of the games were guys who 3-4 raxed mass marines, didn't see any gas or orbital. Then the other half of the games was one base 3-4 rax marauder/marines. And the few remaining were mass marines + banshees + ravens from one base. So basically, all the T's on the ladder are trying to one base abuse their huge production facilities (reactors) and econ (mules) from 1 base.
So after all this, my standard build vs Terrans is now 2-3 gate robo or 4 gate. I still die even if I hold off their bio attacks because eventually they have stim + medivacs + Mules for expos. Need to learn Tester's gateway unit control.
Now I haven't played zerg yet, but I bet it's probably similar vs T.
So apparently the way to win as T is 1 base.
 
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Patch comes out tomorrow.  Just sayin. Thing's might change.
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Give it time. From what I've heard, the BW ladder was the same way upon its release. Once a couple of balance patches have been released, and people gradually get better at countering the cheese and all-ins, the offenders will have to find other ways to play, i.e. standard. That, or new cheese, which doesn't improve their skill anyway.
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Yeah man, patch incoming, you can cross off 1 base battle cruisers off the list of things you have to worry about.
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race.
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Well Gate units arent really effective vs Rax units. I normally do the quick voidray to speedlots builds(White-ra build). Its hard but zerg have it much worst -.-
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You NEED aoe to fight mass teir 1 T as P. I prefer storm as collosi are easier to counter. For some reason a lot of people forget about EMP,.
and yes 90+% of the games will be 1 base bio pushes.
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Replays please.
And one base Terran is really hard to win with if you're high enough in the ladder. Just sayin'
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On September 21 2010 06:13 vnlegend wrote:
I decided to switch from Terran to Protoss for a while to learn some new stuff. So anyways, aside from getting beat up by most people in my ladder, I've probably played around 15 PvT's.
In every single one of these games, no Terran attempted to play a standard macro game. Some of the games were guys who 3-4 raxed mass marines, didn't see any gas or orbital. Then the other half of the games was one base 3-4 rax marauder/marines. And the few remaining were mass marines + banshees + ravens from one base. So basically, all the T's on the ladder are trying to one base abuse their huge production facilities (reactors) and econ (mules) from 1 base.
So after all this, my standard build vs Terrans is now 2-3 gate robo or 4 gate. I still die even if I hold off their bio attacks because eventually they have stim + medivacs + Mules for expos. Need to learn Tester's gateway unit control.
Now I haven't played zerg yet, but I bet it's probably similar vs T.
So apparently the way to win as T is 1 base.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my impression that the general consensus is actually in favor of P in the PvT matchup. That aside.... your post is just one big fucking QQ.
"Some of the guys didnt get gar or orbital"... How did you lose to them?
I don't see how they are "abusing" one base reactors or mules. Toss is ahead in worker count from the first chronoboost and doesn't send multiple probes to lose mining time while building. Meanwhile, the only units that can benefit from reactor are marines (guardian shield) hellions and medivacs.
Finally, marines + banshee + ravens allows you to hit them with ~8 stalkers by the time they have just as many marines.
ZvT is nothing like PvT because the P actually has a great chance of beating the terran. But something tells me that it wouldn't matter in your case because you'd be too busy crying about your race's shortcommings instead of making moves.
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On September 21 2010 06:17 Count9 wrote:
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race.
Yea, you really gotta watch out for all that abusive one base Zerg play...
/eyeroll
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On September 21 2010 06:40 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:17 Count9 wrote:
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race. Yea, you really gotta watch out for all that abusive one base Zerg play... /eyeroll
lol, your response fits your name.
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Hyrule19264 Posts
Play better Terrans? If they don't expand when they push out the first time, it's a not a good Terran.
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I love to play Standard macro games, but due to like what you said people dont want to play straight up games. I get 4 gated, proxy raxed, ling allins, banelings you name it. 
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On September 21 2010 06:36 Vexx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:13 vnlegend wrote:
I decided to switch from Terran to Protoss for a while to learn some new stuff. So anyways, aside from getting beat up by most people in my ladder, I've probably played around 15 PvT's.
In every single one of these games, no Terran attempted to play a standard macro game. Some of the games were guys who 3-4 raxed mass marines, didn't see any gas or orbital. Then the other half of the games was one base 3-4 rax marauder/marines. And the few remaining were mass marines + banshees + ravens from one base. So basically, all the T's on the ladder are trying to one base abuse their huge production facilities (reactors) and econ (mules) from 1 base.
So after all this, my standard build vs Terrans is now 2-3 gate robo or 4 gate. I still die even if I hold off their bio attacks because eventually they have stim + medivacs + Mules for expos. Need to learn Tester's gateway unit control.
Now I haven't played zerg yet, but I bet it's probably similar vs T.
So apparently the way to win as T is 1 base. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my impression that the general consensus is actually in favor of P in the PvT matchup. That aside.... your post is just one big fucking QQ. "Some of the guys didnt get gar or orbital"... How did you lose to them? I don't see how they are "abusing" one base reactors or mules. Toss is ahead in worker count from the first chronoboost and doesn't send multiple probes to lose mining time while building. Meanwhile, the only units that can benefit from reactor are marines (guardian shield) hellions and medivacs. Finally, marines + banshee + ravens allows you to hit them with ~8 stalkers by the time they have just as many marines. ZvT is nothing like PvT because the P actually has a great chance of beating the terran. B ut something tells me that it wouldn't matter in your case because you'd be too busy crying about your race's shortcommings instead of making moves.
You do realise he is a terran player offracing as protoss right?
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I dislike how effective 1 base Terran is. Even into mid-late game 1 base terran can spew out ridiculous forces.
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On September 21 2010 06:40 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:17 Count9 wrote:
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race. Yea, you really gotta watch out for all that abusive one base Zerg play... /eyeroll
banelings and 6 pools ruin your day when you're trying to play straight up, especially if you're dumb enough to lose to it :/
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United States47024 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:40 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:17 Count9 wrote:
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race. Yea, you really gotta watch out for all that abusive one base Zerg play... /eyeroll
I think this is part of why Terran appears as strong as it does, since we're at a phase where people are primarily working off 1-base play (such a phase existed in SC1), and a lot of mechanics for Terran work out favorably while on 1-base play (MULEs allowing oversaturation, production flexibility at low production building counts, etc.). This isn't to say there's a problem with Terran (I definitely think there's a problem with the game as a whole if the game doesn't open up to allow for more macro-centric play), but it's worth keeping in mind that Terran will probably appear somewhat less ridiculous once we get to a point where we can have early 2-3 base play without being overly worried about dying straight off to 1-base all-ins.
In BW a lot of the really dangerous Zerg all-ins were off 2 base.
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Well I play Terran myself and I get a lot of hate playing as T. A lot of games the zergs just straight up tell me I'm playing some OP race and I need no skill. And this is right at the beginning of the game haha.
But ya, it appears my Terran brethren like to 1-base 4 rax a lot. I thought 4-gate was semi-all-in for Protoss but in pretty much all of the games it would've been required to hold off the Terran's attacks.
But anyway, it seems like 1-basing Terran is really strong right now vs both Zerg and Protoss. On 1 base vs 1 base, MULEs give extra income for bigger army or comparable army + CC. One T went mass marines + scvs rush. I had to pull probes to fight and ended up with not so many probes. We both lost workers but since T has mules, P loses the worker trade.
Teching is also somewhat limited on 1 base, while T's can keep pumping out tier 1 units + stim. Medivacs are also relatively cheap to get and are very useful.
Anyway, once I get bored of Protoss it will be time to switch back to T and abuse what I learn.
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On September 21 2010 07:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:40 MrBitter wrote:On September 21 2010 06:17 Count9 wrote:
On a more serious note, >90% one bases regardless of race. Yea, you really gotta watch out for all that abusive one base Zerg play... /eyeroll I think this is part of why Terran appears as strong as it does, since we're at a phase where people are primarily working off 1-base play (such a phase existed in SC1), and a lot of mechanics for Terran work out favorably while on 1-base play (MULEs allowing oversaturation, production flexibility at low production building counts, etc.). This isn't to say there's a problem with Terran (I definitely think there's a problem with the game as a whole if the game doesn't open up to allow for more macro-centric play), but it's worth keeping in mind that Terran will probably appear somewhat less ridiculous once we get to a point where we can have early 2-3 base play without being overly worried about dying straight off to 1-base all-ins. In BW a lot of the really dangerous Zerg all-ins were off 2 base.
Honestly I think if we had bigger maps(BW sized maps), 1 base play would be weaker. It's on maps like steppes that building in base is like a center proxy in bw that makes 1 basing so strong.
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On September 21 2010 07:07 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 06:36 Vexx wrote:On September 21 2010 06:13 vnlegend wrote:
I decided to switch from Terran to Protoss for a while to learn some new stuff. So anyways, aside from getting beat up by most people in my ladder, I've probably played around 15 PvT's.
In every single one of these games, no Terran attempted to play a standard macro game. Some of the games were guys who 3-4 raxed mass marines, didn't see any gas or orbital. Then the other half of the games was one base 3-4 rax marauder/marines. And the few remaining were mass marines + banshees + ravens from one base. So basically, all the T's on the ladder are trying to one base abuse their huge production facilities (reactors) and econ (mules) from 1 base.
So after all this, my standard build vs Terrans is now 2-3 gate robo or 4 gate. I still die even if I hold off their bio attacks because eventually they have stim + medivacs + Mules for expos. Need to learn Tester's gateway unit control.
Now I haven't played zerg yet, but I bet it's probably similar vs T.
So apparently the way to win as T is 1 base. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my impression that the general consensus is actually in favor of P in the PvT matchup. That aside.... your post is just one big fucking QQ. "Some of the guys didnt get gar or orbital"... How did you lose to them? I don't see how they are "abusing" one base reactors or mules. Toss is ahead in worker count from the first chronoboost and doesn't send multiple probes to lose mining time while building. Meanwhile, the only units that can benefit from reactor are marines (guardian shield) hellions and medivacs. Finally, marines + banshee + ravens allows you to hit them with ~8 stalkers by the time they have just as many marines. ZvT is nothing like PvT because the P actually has a great chance of beating the terran. B ut something tells me that it wouldn't matter in your case because you'd be too busy crying about your race's shortcommings instead of making moves. You do realise he is a terran player offracing as protoss right?
Its just as likely for him to say he was a terran to give his QQ more validation, for all you know the OP could just have been a straight up protoss/zerg player.
That aside im not gonna disagree with the fact that 1 basing is so prevalent in the ladder. I doubt 1.1 is gonna do much to change that. Gonna give it some time before people realize they can hold of 1 base plays and still expand. For example Adelscott vs HuK (PvP) on the D9D #175 where adel managed to hold of a 5 gate push and still have his early expansion running.
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yeah i hate how strong terran rax units are. A marauders are retarded with medivacs and stim but once you get storm the mobility advantage protoss has is pretty amazing. Sentries help a ton with surviving against terran. But unfortunately maps like Xel'Naga or Steppes make fast expanding hard.
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EPT
