EPTEssentially, what I'm saying is just because stuff doesn't suit someone 100%, doesn't mean they can't see it is perfect/near perfect.
Searching for the perfect computer game - Page 2
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
Essentially, what I'm saying is just because stuff doesn't suit someone 100%, doesn't mean they can't see it is perfect/near perfect. | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
 Anyway nobody can deny the trend that the games are becoming progressively worse as the time goes by, and what worries me most is that the majority of the market doesn't even get it, shitty games appear to be good to them. This really worries me, besides starcraft2 i can't think of the close-to-perfect game ive played in the past 4 years. And what does future holds for us? I have my hopes up for mafia 2 as it seemed to live up to its predecessor when i played through the demo, it has the potential of being the best gta'esque game made. (mafia1 is currently my favorite at this genre) Guild wars 2 is likely to be good at what it will offer. It will likely be better than its predeccesor Diablo 3 has the potential to turn out to be the perfect game for me because from what i\ve seen it has everything i enjoy in a computer game. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
Played in a 100 years time Be an important part of the life of those who have played it (so not tetris, even though it will probably still be around) If they exist already (a big crowd is putting forward Baldurs Gate 2, which I'm excited about), cool. If not, do you think they can/will exist? | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
I think that's what makes a great game and I think a game like Tetris should be considered art. Games like MW2 or SC2 steer more towards "guided experience" than being just a game... This prevents them from becoming timeless like Tetris. I get bored of newer games once the "experience" runs out. This is by design because they want you to buy the new experience. With Tetris... that never really happens because you're just playing with the game like you'd play with a toy. I'm finding it hard to explain exactly what I mean but hopefully people get where I'm coming from... The artwork and music in a game can be art on it's own also which is another thing to consider. + Show Spoiler + Is a video game as art a combination of gameplay, music and how it is presented? Or simply how it plays? I love video games but sadly the mainstream developers are producing hollywood style rubbish I could never consider good, let alone see them as art. At least Nintendo hasn't completely lost their way | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
I think the time thing is most critical. Other arts have been around for many generations, which means you have people growing up inspired by people that grew up inspired by people that grew up (and on and on) totally immersed in that artform. For computer games we're on basically only the second generation, and the first one was games like pong. People in other arts you talk about like Mozart and Shakespeare had thousands of years of development of their art to learn from and build on when they came along. It may be completely unreasonable to be looking for such high art in computer games at this stage. | ||
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ven
Germany332 Posts
I feel there could've been a lot of really good older games very close to perfection if it weren't for the technical limitations of the time and how new the entire scene was when people still cared about the games they made. Maybe these guys are still around but noone is willing to pay what's needed and have the patience to see it through. Just look at how the big publishers are all mass producing mediocre games. Few exceptions seem to be Valve and Blizzard (not so sure about Activision-Blizzard anymore). I would include id Software and Epic in this list but they're more noteworthy for their game engines nowadays (gotta have to wait for Rage, though). Haven't really kept up with the Japanese games but they seem to be suffering from the same things as western games and a trend to be only graphics with maybe one gameplay gimmick and nothing else. | ||
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tricap
United States17 Posts
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
FF7 : I believe that the dialogs in the japanese version are much better that. Starcraft : Multiplayer is perfect (except that terran is imba :D). Look at Stork's scout micro, you will see how good he is. (forgot which game it was but you can google it) Otherwise I loved "Omikron : The Nomad Soul." Great plot, great atmosphere, you can roam in the city as you wish, the soundtrack is amazing (composed by Bowie himself). The only bad point is the gameplay during the FPS mode. Wth some people are talking about Zelda in a computer video games thread  | ||
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404.Delirium
United States1190 Posts
It wasn't until I saw the Croshaw and his FullyRamblomatic website that it completely clicked. I love these reviews | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4462 Posts
Many people would disagree with me though since BG1 can be so hard , the first real enemy you face at the friendly arm inn can pretty much one shot you with magic missiles ; compare this to WoW where you're killing rabbits for the first few levels or whatever. In answer to your question though , the more complex games get the harder it is for them to be perfect.I'm putting forward 'Asteroids' from 1980 , i can't think of any way to improve the game. | ||
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ironchef
Canada1350 Posts
On your point of can it reach the height of other art. I'd say yes, because art is not perfect either. As for your 100 years definitions..I dont understand why tetris couldn't be that game. Not personally huge on it, but just trying to understand why it couldnt be important to someone. I can see non-plot games like that, or ddr etc to be a huge part of some people's lives. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
You can have two games in one with a mod and to be honest even after 10 years it has almost no flaws ( if you like ADD rules  )As for vanilla versions i prefer BG1 story, low level characters + exploration style but BG2 is technically superior, has better fights and banters. Planescape Torment is the most brillant game ever made but as a game it has a lot of flaws. bugs, rushed content, boring gameplay etc... but the story, universe and dialog are just so ahead of the other games that it doesn't really matter. My other pick is Deus Ex, just because the gameplay and interaction is so good. Yes it is ugly ( not that ugly if moded ), animation, voices and IA are terrible buuuuuuut: I just learn about this trick today and i have this game since 2000 LOL If you are into competitive gaming Broodwar / Quake 3 / CS / Third Strike could be considered as almost perfect. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
On August 18 2010 14:59 vek wrote: I think video games are a different type of art. Tetris was a great example of a perfect game. It doesn't need a back story, voice acting, cutscenes or great graphics. It's a game. You play it and enjoy it. It's easy to play but hard to be really good at. I think that's what makes a great game and I think a game like Tetris should be considered art. Games like MW2 or SC2 steer more towards "guided experience" than being just a game... This prevents them from becoming timeless like Tetris. I get bored of newer games once the "experience" runs out. This is by design because they want you to buy the new experience. With Tetris... that never really happens because you're just playing with the game like you'd play with a toy. I'm finding it hard to explain exactly what I mean but hopefully people get where I'm coming from... The artwork and music in a game can be art on it's own also which is another thing to consider. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghZpyHP7B_g Is a video game as art a combination of gameplay, music and how it is presented? Or simply how it plays? I love video games but sadly the mainstream developers are producing hollywood style rubbish I could never consider good, let alone see them as art. At least Nintendo hasn't completely lost their way I guess in its own way, Tetris is a kind of art. Perfect in it's simple way - and so perhaps it will be remembered far in the future. What it doesn't do though, is have a big impact on someone's life - it's a lot of fun, but I guess you wouldn't call it profound. I see the artwork and music as being a part of the experience - it's just not just the gameplay which matters- it's the whole package. And maybe that becomes more of a 'guided experience' as you put it, but that experience seems to have incredible potential for art. I can imagine something along the lines of FF7 or Shadow of the Collosus really being something special. But I'm not sure if it will happen - as you point out, there's a lot of 'holywood style rubbish' about these days. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:04 mucker wrote: A very interesting topic. As far as single player story telling goes I consider Betrayal at Krondor to be the all time best. It also has an amazingly open world for when it came out and there are lots of puzzles/riddles along with the rpg elements. What makes it so amazing is that not only is it based on Raymond E Feist's novels, but that Feist himself wrote the game. Most games simply don't have published author level people working on them and it really shows when you examine the stories. I think the time thing is most critical. Other arts have been around for many generations, which means you have people growing up inspired by people that grew up inspired by people that grew up (and on and on) totally immersed in that artform. For computer games we're on basically only the second generation, and the first one was games like pong. People in other arts you talk about like Mozart and Shakespeare had thousands of years of development of their art to learn from and build on when they came along. It may be completely unreasonable to be looking for such high art in computer games at this stage. Interesting, I'll check that Betrayal at Kondor out. Having a professional author does seem helpful... Perhaps you're right about looking for too much too early. On the other hand, when an artform is in it's infancy, it's much easier to be creative - take rock music's early days for example. So there's still hope at least. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:14 tricap wrote: Another major point that i think should be mentioned as to why there are no "perfect" games out is the interactivity that games have. In a painting the artist only has to worry about how it will look to a person just standing there. A game designer has to create game mechanics that can be used in ways that were never intended. The way a painting looks to a person and interacts with their experiences is also kind of a two way process- even if to a lesser extent. But I take your point. Even if game mechanics are used in unintended ways, this can either improve the game (see starcraft), or be patched if it screws it up. | ||
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
On August 18 2010 21:06 ironchef wrote: At best it would be perfect to an individual, even then I doubt it's possible. Getting some kind of consensus on perfect, impossible from what I've seen. Having some flaws isnt a bad thing imo. I guess if you round off flaws minor enough to not significantly lower your experience, you can approximate it to 0 flaw. On your point of can it reach the height of other art. I'd say yes, because art is not perfect either. As for your 100 years definitions..I dont understand why tetris couldn't be that game. Not personally huge on it, but just trying to understand why it couldnt be important to someone. I can see non-plot games like that, or ddr etc to be a huge part of some people's lives. There is critical consensus on the greatness of many writers - e.g Shakespeare, Dickens, Hemingway, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. The same is true of composers: Brahms, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc And for bands: The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Radiohead. Many of these different artists works (with the possible exception of the bands), look set to endure for hundreds of years - and I'm basically convinced by the critical arguments for why. Perhaps art isn't 'truly perfect' (what is?), but it's heights come close enough for me to feel comfortable using the word. I think Tetris is great in it's way, but can it really change your life? Does it offer a profound experience? I think that's kind of part of it too... | ||
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Nuttyguy
United Kingdom1526 Posts
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