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Can you have a computer game without flaws? It's something which interests me a lot, but currently I'm doubting it.
This blog was partly inspired by Yahtzee's video reviews: LINK
He's a hardcore gamer who mostly slags off games for being uncreative/not very good, but does it with fair amount of wit, and funny pictures.
What's also interesting is that even with some of the games he thinks are great, such as Shadow of the Colossus and Prince of Persia: the sands of time, he still finds glaring flaws.
I basically feel the same. If I look at the very best games I've played - my absolute favourites, there is still lots of stuff which clearly isn't up to scratch. To give four examples:
Final Fantasy 7: Despite all it's glories, the dialogue is often badly written. Some interactive events are badly presented and frustrating: such as getting in line at the parade, or trying to resuscitate the girl in Junon. Combat is repetitive and imbalanced.
Starcraft Brood war: Single player is often samey and uninspired. Even though I love the multiplayer (of course), it's disappointing how unplayable some units are- in particular Scouts.
Shadow of the Colossus - the first time I've felt a computer game can actually approach art, but suffers from a few boring collusi, awkward camera angles, occasionally sucky controls, and a slightly too obtuse story.
Nethack: Although it's meant to be frustrating, sometimes it's just too frustrating. Again, this is part of the point, and hard to argue with, but it just doesn't feel perfect. Maybe you want to ignore this example when writing back.
Now my point isn't that these games aren't great - of course they are! I love them. But in other fields, such as literature,music or film, I often get the feeling I've experienced something perfect. I would not change one note of Sibelius's 5th Symphony. I love every line and sound in Radiohead's Wolf at the Door. I simply can't find fault with Hesse's The Glass Bead Game. Every shot in the first Godfather film feels expertly judged.
Computer games haven't done this kind of thing yet, at least not to my knowledge. You don't have to be at all critical to notice many clear mistakes and flaws in finished games. If there's some perfect game I've missed, please tell me. I think there are three main reasons for this.
1: Gaming is a very new phenomenon. This is the obvious one, so perhaps in the future it will all change. Right now though, the trend seems to be in the opposite direction - as people have argued with SC2's battlenet, there is a trend towards meeting profit margins and hitting the biggest audience, instead of creating something to stand the test of time.
2: Games are huge collaborations. When you have so many people working on one project, the odds of getting gameplay/music/dialogue/story/mechanics/originality/graphics/no bugs all right is quite low. Films suffer from the same problem (maybe this is why I have so few favourite films), but are much shorter, and so can sometimes directly meet what the director hopes for.
3: Following from 2, games need a lot of money. Unless you try for a 2D retro approach, which is actually a cool idea, you will need a large budget. This ties you to your large target audience - even if you are a successful company. Radiohead recently released an album where they let their audience pay what they wanted for it. Can you imagine even the biggest gaming companies doing the same with a big title?
My main hope is in some indie developing genius getting something together, and it being so good it makes it, but even that seems optimistic, as people are more and more drawn to the latest (expensive) technologies.
Thoughts?
Note: if you disagree with my examples of perfection, or think that nothing can be objectively good, or anything along those lines, please PM me, or start a separate thread. What I want to discuss in this blog is whether computer games can reach the heights of other art - not whether there is such a thing as good or bad art, or good or bad games.
EDIT: I've realised I didn't do a very good job of defining perfect, and that that's a tricky topic, so for the sake of this thread I mean I am looking for games which are of such a high standard that they will be:
Played in a 100 years time
Be an important part of the life of those who have played it (so not tetris, even though it will probably still be around)
If they exist already (a big crowd is putting forward Baldurs Gate 2, which I'm excited about), cool. If not, do you think they can/will exist?
 
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I'd consider Baldurs gate 2 to be the most "perfect" game i've ever played, don't think you can get any closer than that imo.
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baldurs gate 2 came to my mind immediately as soon as i read this post, the fact that someone beat me to mentioning it says a lot i think
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Gaming is very similar to art, music, film, and literature etc. because it appeals to a broad audience. Within such a broad audience there are myriad tastes; what is perfect to one may not be perfect to another. Therefore, there will never be a universally accepted "perfect" game. Sure, there will be what many may consider to be very good ones, but there will never be a "perfect" one in a sense that no one can find a single flaw.
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Reading your post there is only one solution to finding a game that will fit your taste specifically.
It will address every need you have when you search a game that will suit you. But this might be a time consuming and a arduous task.
The solution is to simply make your own game. You know what you want, you know what kind of plot, music, charachters, action suit your personality. Combine all those elements, learn how to make games ( through programs that I dont even know) compile it, and play it yourself. Again, this game is probably not going to suit a 'wide audience' because your probably not going to make this game intended to suit other people's needs/interests.
That is probably the only solution I see cause honestly, no game you will find made by any creator will suit you perfectly without any drawbacks unless the creator is yourself.
Good day.
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I dont know a whole lot about 'the perfect game'; for me that is, and will always be SC:BW, but i'd like to thank you for directing me to the site in your link. So awesome haha.
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For what it was, I thought Yahtzee's 2nd game was perfect in its genre/own way..
Apart from that, KotOR 1 was pretty close to perfect.
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What do you consider as flaws? Making the game without technical flaws would be relatively easy, the more simplistic the game the more easy it would be to achieve such a goal. But would such game be fun? Would such game be challenging? I doubt it, the game has to hold a certain degree of complexity for it to be fun, and the more complex the game the more difficult it becomes to have it technically flawless.
So no i don't think it is possible to create perfect game that would both be extremely good and technically flawless.
+ Show Spoiler [some rambling i wrote about the game o…] +
I believe that the technology is there to make a perfect game, and it could be made if you had the right people with unlimited resources and with no interest in making profit, just a single goal to make a perfect game.
But i cant figure out what genre the game should be based on, but what im sure about is that the perfect game should allow the player to experience unlimited freedom, the ultimate sandbox... So i think it should be an mmorpg because this genre has the capability of creating a word that a player can experience through his character, allowing to make his own adventure with other individuals, possibility to shape the world and change the way things work. I kind of thing of an eve-online as i write this because i believe that game has the right fundamentals to this perfect game, however its far from perfect.
I'm afraid that RTS genre is out of the question because it can only be perfect technically, but thats it. ...I don't really know how to put this, but starcraft is technical, logical and challenging, and that's great, thats what rts games should be like. But there are things that you could never experience through rts games, and thus it can't be perfect. I hope you get what i mean.
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On August 18 2010 14:14 deth wrote:
For what it was, I thought Yahtzee's 2nd game was perfect in its genre/own way..
Apart from that, KotOR 1 was pretty close to perfect.
KOTOR was simply amazing, but I honestly have to give it to Baldur's Gate 2. First thing I thought of when I saw the title was that, and the first two posts were about it. That's testament to how purely awesome it is. I'm only really giving it to BG2 because KOTOR is too easy to exploit, and becomes a cake walk. I personally like the story so it's worth it anyway, but just not as fun.
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
I haven't played Baldurs gate 2, so I'll have to get that. Apparently it's available with the expansion pack on Amazon for £10. Come to think of it, is it old enough that it can be downloaded from anywhere legally? I'm in China, so otherwise won't be able to play it for a while. I have windows 7.
Shadesofkarma - This is kind of the side discussion I wanted to avoid, but there is enough critical consensus over hundreds of years across all the worlds cultures that Mozart/Bach/Beethoven/Shakespeare/Tolstoy are really rather good, with their best work as close to perfection as mankind is going to manage. I just want the gaming equivalent, even at a lower level, where there aren't many clear flaws in a game to even a casual player.
Rickson- I've been able to find much music and literature, as well as a handful of films which I'd consider perfect, or at least 'good enough', so I don't see why it's impossible for a game, though as my post shows, I have doubts. In a similar vein, even though I know what I want is material like 'War and Peace', that doesn't mean I can create it myself. In fact, I almost certainly cannot.
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Skvid - a flaw is something that clearly detracts from the game. For example, bad dialogue/storytelling/mechanics/bugs/imbalances. Just making a game which runs smoothly isn't enough - it also has to be inspired.
So yes, increased complexity will make this harder to achieve.
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On August 18 2010 14:16 n.DieJokes wrote:
tetris is perfect
I have to agree with this... Albeit I feel the OP is asking for something more artful and epic Something that's both creative, epic, and helluva-fun. Like Bioshock, maybe? Far from perfect, but damn good.
Edit:
I'll go on to say I don't think there has yet been a perfect game. But there have been a few that were pretty darn close.
Half Life 1 and 2, in my opinion, probably come the closest...
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On August 18 2010 14:21 Tal wrote:Show nested quote +Thanks for the replies everyone.
I haven't played Baldurs gate 2, so I'll have to get that. Apparently it's available with the expansion pack on Amazon for £10. Come to think of it, is it old enough that it can be downloaded from anywhere legally? I'm in China, so otherwise won't be able to play it for a while. I have windows 7.
Shadesofkarma - This is kind of the side discussion I wanted to avoid, but there is enough critical consensus over hundreds of years across all the worlds cultures that Mozart/Bach/Beethoven/Shakespeare/Tolstoy are really rather good, with their best work as close to perfection as mankind is going to manage. I just want the gaming equivalent, even at a lower level, where there aren't many clear flaws in a game to even a casual player.
Rickson- I've been able to find much music and literature, as well as a handful of films which I'd consider perfect, or at least 'good enough', so I don't see why it's impossible for a game, though as my post shows, I have doubts. In a similar vein, even though I know what I want is material like 'War and Peace', that doesn't mean I can create it myself. In fact, I almost certainly cannot.
It can be downloaded from a ton of places, but I really doubt legally. That might take some looking into. Either way, you won't be disappointed with it, it's a great play.
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On August 18 2010 14:24 MrBitter wrote:I have to agree with this... Albeit I feel the OP is asking for something more artful and epic Something that's both creative, epic, and helluva-fun. Like Bioshock, maybe? Far from perfect, but damn good.
That's another iffy one, just because it's hit or miss. Personally, I loved Bioshock, but both of my brothers, who usually have the same tastes as I do in games, hated it.
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BG2 was real good but so was Planescape Torment.
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On August 18 2010 13:32 nttea wrote:
I'd consider Baldurs gate 2 to be the most "perfect" game i've ever played, don't think you can get any closer than that imo.
How about baldurs gate 1? It's way less linear and 2-3 times more captivating.
Baldurs gate 2 is amazing, but the original still holds my heart.
Actually now that I think about it baldurs gate 2 is pretty damn good. okay. whatever.
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On August 18 2010 14:21 Tal wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I haven't played Baldurs gate 2, so I'll have to get that. Apparently it's available with the expansion pack on Amazon for £10. Come to think of it, is it old enough that it can be downloaded from anywhere legally? I'm in China, so otherwise won't be able to play it for a while. I have windows 7.
Shadesofkarma - This is kind of the side discussion I wanted to avoid, but there is enough critical consensus over hundreds of years across all the worlds cultures that Mozart/Bach/Beethoven/Shakespeare/Tolstoy are really rather good, with their best work as close to perfection as mankind is going to manage. I just want the gaming equivalent, even at a lower level, where there aren't many clear flaws in a game to even a casual player.
Rickson- I've been able to find much music and literature, as well as a handful of films which I'd consider perfect, or at least 'good enough', so I don't see why it's impossible for a game, though as my post shows, I have doubts. In a similar vein, even though I know what I want is material like 'War and Peace', that doesn't mean I can create it myself. In fact, I almost certainly cannot.
Really? You have found a 'handful' of literature and music that suits you 100% in every element and detail? If that is the case then with all respect given, you are somebody that is relatively easier to 'please' or lets say 'satisfy' than most people which in a sense could be a god thing! Picky people are not good! Aha! There are definately music/ literature/ art that definatley 'suit' people and is very satisfying but I have rarely if not at all found a movie or a book or a piece of art that I have not found even the slightest conflict or something that I dont like. But anyways that could just be me as person who is very specific and picky...but then again everybody is picky in some way or another.
Anyways here are some games that I've played personally, thought they were pretty good and might be 'good enough' for you.
Age of empires - Lots of serious thought and strategetical approaches that make this game very entertaining. Has its drawbacks but relatively fun.
Starcraft- For obvious reasons 
Final Fantasy (7 is my fav) - very entertaining plot line, kinda gets repetitive with fights but nevertheless very fun.
Console games: Wii is very fun but you kinda get bored of it after.
Anyways I'll PM you with another list after i've done more thinking about some games that I have played that you might like!
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On August 18 2010 14:32 HickleStine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 13:32 nttea wrote:
I'd consider Baldurs gate 2 to be the most "perfect" game i've ever played, don't think you can get any closer than that imo. How about baldurs gate 1? It's way less linear and 2-3 times more captivating. Baldurs gate 2 is amazing, but the original still holds my heart. Actually now that I think about it baldurs gate 2 is pretty damn good. okay. whatever.
I loved baldurs gate1, but like 99% of games it had issues. Baldurs gate2 however must be one of the hardest games in the world to complain about. I'd say the same with planescape torment as bg1
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Zelda: Ocarina of Time was pretty damn close to perfect for me
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EPT
