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Trend is 4gate korean style so enemy counter with 2 gates pressure => both side 2 gates + tech to wrap. from here, the fear of a zealots army would roll over a stalker army mades people go VR vs VR or VR vs 4 gates. Robo plays is almost impossible vs VR since the advantage or air scout into timing push b4 robo support come up. VR also make FF less effective at the ramp since you always have vision up ramp with air tech.
notice, by VR, its could also be VR phoenixes to counter VR and lift off immortals.
another possibility in PvP is that if 1 side held of korean 4 gates without 2 gates rush, 4 korean can still come up ahead early on with the wrap gate speed production while the other side a little slower but has more probe for long run. this normally result robo counter 4 gates or 4 gates vs 4 gates. if robo, there will be lots of sentries to turtle into colossi tech, else 4 gates vs 4 gates there will be lots of zealots and the gas go into DTs and 1 side will suffer and get forge, hope to roll over with +1 timing
sneaky expo early in this situation is almost a 50/50 since if you scout the enemy going colossi, there is no way you can counter it unless u having 1 yourself.
things so crucial in this match up is:
1/ heavy zealots army 90% wins vs heavy stalkers early on.
2/ VR are being use as the "evolution counter" from the old trend which is 1 base colossi. we can wrap things up with 4 gates > VR > colossi> 4gates atm.
3/ VR can deal way more damage vs any type of build if they are correctly used/micro. the advantage of air tech is HUGE with the ability of constant harras pressure and gaining map control.
4/ on some certain map like steppes, there are some unique style to play the game such as 2 gates wall nature PvZ style. you 2 gates zealots until wrap tech queue up, expan and get lots of sentries out to FF hold the push. => colossi
5/ getting obs is a good way to garther information but the cost is not only 50 100 1 supply, it also cost you time to get 1 immortal out fast. lots of time games could be lose by a small decision like that.
6/ most effective upgrade would be shield instead of + 1 attack due to the fact that the army composition now is VR+ zealots + sentries. but shield are WAY more expensive and take time to get.
more update about Protoss will be on my blog so make sure to check it out =)
edit: i am not responsible if you think this belong to strategy, it simply just some personal thought and has no one confirm what is right and what is wrong. if you have read my blog entries, those are just "thoughts" of a Toss user. However, you have the right to think about my thought, correct, improve it and make it into strategy. Notice how did i simplified at least 30 possible situations that can happen in current PvP just in 4 paragraphs. In real, its much faster and complicated so i just want to throw it out for you to compare this to your games and see what did you do wrong =).... GLHF folks
edit2: adding:
+ fast expanding is not "impossible" if its a 4 players map. simply you will spend 400 mineral on a HIDDEN expo and use the gas on sentries for FF. FE is normally follow by air tech to force enemy to delay robo tech which can potentially break FF. Air tech also requires the enemy to keep stalkers count as high (aka. no gas for fast DTs) and IN THEIR BASE in stead of pushing out with the risk of VRs killing mineral line. If your micro is not good enough to keep VRs number high (2-3 at least), suggesting you to get a forge and cannon ramp. this will make sure no DTs gatting in and provide some fire power when come with FF (its not a bad choice since you are spending most of your gas on sentries anyway forge and cannon will burn your mineral down a little bit)
 
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ya this is nice, like a news update, id like it in strategy
edit: Hmmmm ur shield idea is interesting.......
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no, the strategy sub forum is full of shit... i really HATE posting + reading that part of TL atm....
i want to keep this to my blog with a little personal point of view =D
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8748 Posts
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do?
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On August 18 2010 06:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do?
Generally, the 4warpgate "rush", is called Korean Style for some reason (popularity on korean servers?), which goes a little something like this:
10pylon/gate
12 or 13 assim only get 50 gas
15 core
chrono warpgatetech
18 3x gateways
when done, warp in 4 zealots into enemys mineral line.
Whereas the 4 warpgate PUSH vs zerg is something completely different where you dont start the two last gates until pretty much 30 iirc, and you dont really cut anything.
tl;dr: It's really two different builds with similar theme, and confusing names.
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I don't know, Tozar has been doing that exact build in PvP since early beta. Although he would get a mix of gateway units, not just pure zealots
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On August 18 2010 06:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do?
you can check the build out on liquidpedia. Plexa worked really hard on that guide.
Its basicly the build where you save most of your chrono boost for wrap tech, having only 1 pylon in base with 18 probes (cut gas at 50), build 4 pylons in the enemy base (let them kill 2~3) and then mass wraping in zealots.
its strong bc there is no way you can kill 4 pylons in time with your initial units (most likely 1 stalker 1 zealot) and the wrapped in zealots can be split: 1 for mineral line and 3 vs stalker. Countering this build require some restricted resources management or you just 2 gates zealots pressure him.
edit1:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_4_Warpgate_All_In_(vs._Protoss)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141767
edit2:
this has been done by Korean since early beta phase 1 and is the main cause for the nerf of wrap tech build time T__T
NonY, start streaming games dont ya?
edit3: god, this build even on the news :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144738
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8748 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:06 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 06:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do? you can check the build out on liquidpedia. Plexa worked really hard on that guide. Its basicly the build where you save most of your chrono boost for wrap tech, having only 1 pylon in base with 18 probes (cut gas at 50), build 4 pylons in the enemy base (let them kill 2~3) and then mass wraping in zealots. its strong bc there is no way you can kill 4 pylons in time with your initial units (most likely 1 stalker 1 zealot) and the wrapped in zealots can be split: 1 for mineral line and 3 vs stalker. Countering this build require some restricted resources management or you just 2 gates zealots pressure him. edit1: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_4_Warpgate_All_In_(vs._Protoss)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141767edit2: this has been done by Korean since early beta phase 1 and is the main cause for the nerf of wrap tech build time T__T NonY, start streaming games dont ya? edit3: god, this build even on the news :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144738
Oh I see. As far as I know, players on the US server were doing it as early (or earlier) than the Koreans so I'm not sure how that name stuck.
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On August 18 2010 08:07 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 07:06 NB wrote:On August 18 2010 06:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do? you can check the build out on liquidpedia. Plexa worked really hard on that guide. Its basicly the build where you save most of your chrono boost for wrap tech, having only 1 pylon in base with 18 probes (cut gas at 50), build 4 pylons in the enemy base (let them kill 2~3) and then mass wraping in zealots. its strong bc there is no way you can kill 4 pylons in time with your initial units (most likely 1 stalker 1 zealot) and the wrapped in zealots can be split: 1 for mineral line and 3 vs stalker. Countering this build require some restricted resources management or you just 2 gates zealots pressure him. edit1: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_4_Warpgate_All_In_(vs._Protoss)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141767edit2: this has been done by Korean since early beta phase 1 and is the main cause for the nerf of wrap tech build time T__T NonY, start streaming games dont ya? edit3: god, this build even on the news :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144738 Oh I see. As far as I know, players on the US server were doing it as early (or earlier) than the Koreans so I'm not sure how that name stuck.
Stuck because everyone is in love with korea, and think everything korean is better when it comes to SC. Everyone was doing this shit pre warpgate nerf. After the warpgate nerf tozar was the first I saw do it personally
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On August 18 2010 08:07 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 07:06 NB wrote:On August 18 2010 06:25 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
what do koreans do differently with their 4gate build that americans and europeans dont do? you can check the build out on liquidpedia. Plexa worked really hard on that guide. Its basicly the build where you save most of your chrono boost for wrap tech, having only 1 pylon in base with 18 probes (cut gas at 50), build 4 pylons in the enemy base (let them kill 2~3) and then mass wraping in zealots. its strong bc there is no way you can kill 4 pylons in time with your initial units (most likely 1 stalker 1 zealot) and the wrapped in zealots can be split: 1 for mineral line and 3 vs stalker. Countering this build require some restricted resources management or you just 2 gates zealots pressure him. edit1: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_4_Warpgate_All_In_(vs._Protoss)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141767edit2: this has been done by Korean since early beta phase 1 and is the main cause for the nerf of wrap tech build time T__T NonY, start streaming games dont ya? edit3: god, this build even on the news :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144738 Oh I see. As far as I know, players on the US server were doing it as early (or earlier) than the Koreans so I'm not sure how that name stuck.
mostly because there was a thread in early phase 1 complain about PvP in korea.
While US and EU, we pretty much soild with 4 gates/3gates robo FF contain expan, in korea they spam proxy pylons in base everywhere and people surprised how did that work. => there you go ^^.
bc the strat was 1st publicly mention using korean games so its korean strat  ... just like your phoenixes build, lots of people hv been using it in korean sever but u got mentioned 1st => NonY phoenixes =P
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EPT
