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The evolution of sc2

Blogs > Surrealz
Post a Reply
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 09 2010 03:27 GMT
#1
I see alot of people complaining about sc2 in that there is no micro, the races are imba, not fun, low skillcap, etc. While it is definitely NOT BW, and probably will never match it, I want to talk about a few things that haven't been super popular but I think are going to spice the game up.

Hallucinations- People are using these as a scout when they go for a council/4gate, but I think that the real advantages of this upgrade are tech fakes and high ground vision via Collosi or Phoenixes. If you have a force of stalkers you can gain vision of the high ground to harass and do a slew of other things. In PvZ appearing with a hallucinated collosi and then backing off may cause them to tech to corruptors not realizing that they are fake

Sensor Towers- Nuff said. They are amazing and I don't see why we don't see them in every game. It scares me to think how PvT is going to be when they are the regular

Carriers - However bad people think they are, they are actually amazing when micro'd properly to kite and kill off forces. I think we will see carriers more and more in PvT mech games to snipe off tanks.

Archons (and HTs)- These things are getting seen more and more every day. Their uses against Marines/Mutas/Zerglings/etc are crazy. I see ALOT of players using HTs to feedback snipe, then run back and morph to archons. I really love archons in PvZ, and apparently people are experimenting with council builds with charge+archives and a big archon/chargelot push.

Drops - As we see APMs increase drops will be changing games more and more. All races will be using them, but I think this is going to balance out terran mech the most. Overlord drops are going to strain terran so much that I can't see them getting a third expo without serious consequence. I LOVE watching drops, cause they are just so solid and so gamechanging. The problem is that people aren't doing them consistently enough nor have the apm to continue everything else they are doing

Infestors Already being used a crap ton, but I still feel like they don't get the love they deserve. They are really incredibly game changing.

EMP Dodging Not so much a unit, but I think that we are going to see the pros like white-ra and tester dodging these things like crazy for some really epic exchanges and micro

Motherships Not really sure about this, but I think the mothership might be effective down the road. Not so much their cloak ability, but mass recall and vortex. A well placed vortex to cut an army in half and defensive recalls may be the norm. I still hate this unit (despite its epicness) but I have faith in the creativeness of top plauyers.


Anyways, this is all pretty much common sense, and alot of players are already using these things. I just feel like this game is being oversimplified on these forums and I am very optimistic about the future of its gameplay. I also don't like the whole "OK OUR ARMIES FIGHT NOW, MAY THE BETTER MAN WIN. MEET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP" philosophy, and I think a harassment game with an emphasis on scouting to better one's unit comp is going to be the future. Also, micro is just getting better and better.



*
1a2a3a
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 09 2010 03:32 GMT
#2
how exactly does one dodge an emp
it's pretty much instant
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 09 2010 03:37 GMT
#3
army 1 and army 2 are going towards each other

do not queue up emp because if the other army is moving it might move out of your Q, so you need to wait til its in range.

Army 2 knows ghosts are present, so the player jukes backwards avoiding the brunt of the EMP.
1a2a3a
apm66
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada943 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 03:46:12
August 09 2010 03:45 GMT
#4
On August 09 2010 12:32 travis wrote:
how exactly does one dodge an emp
it's pretty much instant

like dodging it waaay before it happens, like running away from plaguuuu in bw
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
August 09 2010 04:01 GMT
#5
On August 09 2010 12:32 travis wrote:
how exactly does one dodge an emp
it's pretty much instant

yea its quite a bit faster than the units it targets Q.Q imo it should be like hsm except a LITTLE bit faster

NrG.NeverExpo
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2114 Posts
August 09 2010 04:12 GMT
#6
yea im actually quite happy with the little things in the game that are coming to be. It's only a matter of time before such things are fully adopted in sc2.
TwitteR: @NeverExpo follow me, i'll follow back :)
Nokarot
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1410 Posts
August 09 2010 04:16 GMT
#7
I'm one of those people on the terran hate train, but I do think sensor towers are very underutilized. Build one next to your tanks and if you see someone either coming up or sitting right outside you, scan and get a few extra hits off before they come in to the normal FoW, since siege range is bigger than their vision.

Not to mention of course putting them all over the place to see what alls going on on the map, or to watch for backdoors or whatever. Of course, affording them is something people will have to work in to their builds, but I think they could benefit from them a lot more.
beep beep boop
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
August 09 2010 04:18 GMT
#8
One does not simply dodge EMPs
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
August 09 2010 04:19 GMT
#9
I really don't understand why people unanimously hate on the sensor tower... -_-

For less than a tank you get a half-map hack? You'd rather have one more siege tank?
Hates Fun🤔
calgar
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1277 Posts
August 09 2010 04:28 GMT
#10
What I love most is tracking how the overall metagame and unit composition strategies evolve so rapidly. Early on in beta everyone and their mother used MMM almost exclusively and there was tons of moaning about marauders being OP. Then we saw games where that strategy got destroyed by things such as proxy stargate void rays. Terran shifted to incorporating more variety such as early ghosts, and then full on mech when siege tanks got buffed. And of course the well known 1-1-1 of late. Because few games tend to last long we don't really get to see tech units as much but every now and then we get a glimpse of the potential of BCs (thinking of TLO abusing cliffs on steppes) and other tech units.
ClanOverdosed
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
691 Posts
August 09 2010 04:31 GMT
#11
Mothership rush is effective in 2v2 when both players are protoss, one players rushes the Mothership while the other one goes 4 warpgate
Overdosed--www.overdosed.net
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
August 09 2010 04:38 GMT
#12
You can't dodge EMPs, all that you can hope is that the Terran misses
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-09 04:58:52
August 09 2010 04:57 GMT
#13
On August 09 2010 13:18 Tabbris wrote:
One does not simply dodge EMPs



i just had to fix this for you.

[image loading]

but yea while you could dodge it similarly to how you would dodge plaguu, they can essentially delay emps and wait for you to engage their main marine, marauder force, between stim and concussive shells you will take losses.
"Mudkip"
Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
August 09 2010 05:00 GMT
#14
One thing I will say though is, people are saying this game takes no skill and has a low skillcap compared to broodwar. Broodwar never had such a high skillcap, back then in the old days. I remember HuskyStarcraft making some nostalgia casts of Garimto vs Skelton, back then their pro level would be D~level on iCCup today, pre-SC2 beta/release. Give it time to develop, the koreans to get the build orders worked out and precise like they were in broodwar down to the second, like you'd have exactly the amount of gas to get a tank and siege in a siege expo and still be able to get and early CC and stuff like that. In other words, give it some time to develop
Dota 3hard5me
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
August 09 2010 05:14 GMT
#15
On August 09 2010 12:45 apm66 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 12:32 travis wrote:
how exactly does one dodge an emp
it's pretty much instant

like dodging it waaay before it happens, like running away from plaguuuu in bw

Except you really don't, plague is pretty damn hard to avoid unless you snipe the defiler early.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
August 09 2010 05:19 GMT
#16
On August 09 2010 14:00 Nub4ever wrote:
One thing I will say though is, people are saying this game takes no skill and has a low skillcap compared to broodwar. Broodwar never had such a high skillcap, back then in the old days. I remember HuskyStarcraft making some nostalgia casts of Garimto vs Skelton, back then their pro level would be D~level on iCCup today


please don't talk out your ass. Both of those gamers would not only fuck you up, but completely decimate any D/C/B player.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 09 2010 05:23 GMT
#17
On August 09 2010 14:14 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 12:45 apm66 wrote:
On August 09 2010 12:32 travis wrote:
how exactly does one dodge an emp
it's pretty much instant

like dodging it waaay before it happens, like running away from plaguuuu in bw

Except you really don't, plague is pretty damn hard to avoid unless you snipe the defiler early.



you can dodge EMPs though. If you cannot grasp that concept then idk
1a2a3a
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
August 09 2010 05:26 GMT
#18
On August 09 2010 14:00 Nub4ever wrote:
One thing I will say though is, people are saying this game takes no skill and has a low skillcap compared to broodwar. Broodwar never had such a high skillcap, back then in the old days. I remember HuskyStarcraft making some nostalgia casts of Garimto vs Skelton, back then their pro level would be D~level on iCCup today, pre-SC2 beta/release. Give it time to develop, the koreans to get the build orders worked out and precise like they were in broodwar down to the second, like you'd have exactly the amount of gas to get a tank and siege in a siege expo and still be able to get and early CC and stuff like that. In other words, give it some time to develop


You have "skill" and "skillcap" mixed up. The BW skill cap was always high but no one knew how to play at the beginning. SC2 is not the same case. its skill cap is a lot lower and is probably going be reached in a couple of years. point being is that SC2 is not going to magically turn into a success like BW did if you "give it some time to develop" because of its low skill cap. Instead the game is going to get figured out in a few years and all the pros are going to be at the same level.
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 09 2010 05:35 GMT
#19
On August 09 2010 14:26 writer22816 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 14:00 Nub4ever wrote:
One thing I will say though is, people are saying this game takes no skill and has a low skillcap compared to broodwar. Broodwar never had such a high skillcap, back then in the old days. I remember HuskyStarcraft making some nostalgia casts of Garimto vs Skelton, back then their pro level would be D~level on iCCup today, pre-SC2 beta/release. Give it time to develop, the koreans to get the build orders worked out and precise like they were in broodwar down to the second, like you'd have exactly the amount of gas to get a tank and siege in a siege expo and still be able to get and early CC and stuff like that. In other words, give it some time to develop


You have "skill" and "skillcap" mixed up. The BW skill cap was always high but no one knew how to play at the beginning. SC2 is not the same case. its skill cap is a lot lower and is probably going be reached in a couple of years. point being is that SC2 is not going to magically turn into a success like BW did if you "give it some time to develop" because of its low skill cap. Instead the game is going to get figured out in a few years and all the pros are going to be at the same level.


please tell me where you are getting your future telling skills from, we can make alot of money together on the stock market
1a2a3a
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
August 09 2010 05:41 GMT
#20
Mothership is too big, costly and slow to be used well offensively in 1v1s. Its a sick tool for late game defense when your army is away. Vortex for stalling, or cutting the enemy's army in half so your defensive forces can take it out, or just recall your army back and take them out.

Unless if you are slow pushing your way across the map I don't see a good opponent letting your mothership to just wander into his base. It works well in team games though.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
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