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During phase 2 of SC2 beta, I noticed a huge jump in skill in the entire community. I ran into less C- noobs that could only do one BO and kept losing vs C- people that knew what they were doing.
Now that SC2 has come out, every single person in the C range plays like a B. I'm feeling really left out here cause I can't play as much anymore and all my 'friends' moved to SC2.
Every time I go for an FE in any MU, I get (c)rushed by something cute. I end up losing too much defending it and I end up losing in the midgame.
It might be because of my inability to do a real push in TvP.
It may be because I'm too greedy whenever I see a zerg cut sunkens (and end up getting overrun by zerglings instead).
It may be because I don't react properly in TvT and end up getting rolled.
It may be because of karma when I finally got C with a crappy record of 41-30, only to drop down to C- with a record of 41-35.
To think I was going to write a TvT guide...
Owning people on ICC makes a nerd feel good, but getting owned is a real eye opening experience...
It's not even getting owned as in "oh he just did a 3gate thing and killed my siege tanks." It's just getting outplayed in general. I scout more, but he scouts better than I do. I try to macro harder, but he out macros me. I focus on something, but he just does it better.
Holy crap ICC got a lot tougher...
end rant.
If anyone wants to play, pm me here so i'll log on to icc. Currently eating a box of ice cream...
 
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Yes its very hard to play on iccup..I find myself playing less BW and just watching it now.
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Same thing happened to me. I was trying to get to C a few days before the game came out and even then the skill level was higher than what I felt like it was before.
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i've actually been finding it easier this season than the past seasons
edit: i guess this is because my APM has gone up about 40
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lol my apm went up about 30, and I still get owned
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Yep I was finally hanging in the mid D+. SC2 comes out and I'm hammered into mid D. My apm has gone up about 20 as well as I feel like things are really smoothing out. Many players I play though are like, C or more if you check their profiles. I like playing against hard opponents because it's sort of like over training, but sometimes it's just overwhelming
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After beta ended I started over as toss, playing nearly all pvp's and pvt's, and it has been hard as hell. I was never a good zerg before, but the new challenge has been exactly what I wanted, and trying to learn a new race is always interesting.
As for smurfs, it's the best when some korean joins your game and has 1100 points with a 1-0 win/loss. They could be at any level, and it seems like half the time it's A- terrans lol'ing at my 12 nex while raping my entire family.
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skill level isn't higher, it's just that there are way less newbs to inflate the ranks of people :p
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I don't understand this at all, i play iccup and people are still around the same level.. D Rank players are still terrible and there's nothing new
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my apm went up 50 (nospam man) and my rank went from C to C- 
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On August 05 2010 05:37 lokiM wrote:
I don't understand this at all, i play iccup and people are still around the same level.. D Rank players are still terrible and there's nothing new
I think the idea is that there is a skill inflation. The "casual" gamers went to SC2. So basically all the skill shifted up a bit. It's like a food chain, if all the small bugs die, it has wide reaching effects.
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Yes, might be harder than before to get a high rank. But why worry about your rank so much? It only tells about your skill relative to the other people playing atm. As long as you don't lose every single game, and find games relatively fast, I don't see what's so bad about this.
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United States3824 Posts
Scout Scout Scout!
Lately when I've been playing SC I've been playing like it was fucking Halo, focusing on the minimap and looking at the screen in my peripheral whenever possible. Makes me get fucked by Reavers a lot less.
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My APM went up from about 120 to 160ish, and I've been having trouble hanging out at D+ where I'm comfortable. I think also that Iccup has become more difficult. A lot of players moved on, and a lot of the players still around are a lot more hardcore, I suppose
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On August 05 2010 05:42 JohannesH wrote:
Yes, might be harder than before to get a high rank. But why worry about your rank so much? It only tells about your skill relative to the other people playing atm. As long as you don't lose every single game, and find games relatively fast, I don't see what's so bad about this.
im losing every single game without learning a thing =(.....which is the worst kind of loss
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On August 05 2010 05:42 ella_guru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 05:37 lokiM wrote:
I don't understand this at all, i play iccup and people are still around the same level.. D Rank players are still terrible and there's nothing new I think the idea is that there is a skill inflation. The "casual" gamers went to SC2. So basically all the skill shifted up a bit. It's like a food chain, if all the small bugs die, it has wide reaching effects.
this still doesn't make any sense to me, there are less c/c+ players including people in ladder a-b, this doesn't mean more of those players are in the d ranks
I've played maybe 20 games in d ranks and i see no difference since the release of sc2
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I think that things didn't change really... However, since I am a higher rank I guess it doesn't affect me. I would just recommend watching your replays and reviewing mistakes, maybe your time in sc2 was more detrimental than you expected.
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On August 05 2010 05:46 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 05:42 ella_guru wrote:On August 05 2010 05:37 lokiM wrote:
I don't understand this at all, i play iccup and people are still around the same level.. D Rank players are still terrible and there's nothing new I think the idea is that there is a skill inflation. The "casual" gamers went to SC2. So basically all the skill shifted up a bit. It's like a food chain, if all the small bugs die, it has wide reaching effects. this still doesn't make any sense to me, there are less c/c+ players including people in ladder a-b, this doesn't mean more of those players are in the d ranks I've played maybe 20 games in d ranks and i see no difference since the release of sc2
The suckier people left, the better people stayed behind. The crappier people in each level drops 1-2 ranks. Its really noticeable in the C ranks
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I agree with lokiM, haven't noticed any major difference in skill level this season as compared to others.
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Probably due to foreigners moving to SC2 and a large portion of the Koreans staying on BW. It's like the whole "I got X rank in foreign hours, but got X-2 rank in korean hours" thing that people have been talking about for the past many years, except now there probably aren't any non-korean hours
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i lose frequently, but i very rarely get owned hard. Im at D+, most of my losses are entirely cus of my fault not because of outmicro better scout or something. I mostly just fail at some part of the build, forgetting about 5th hatch, not transitioning from one unit composition to another, not using the effing scourges to snipe observes (not like i make spire in a zvp anywayz).
I think the key to improvement is realizing you are terribad at this game xd
2 days ago i rewatched chills stragic fpvods for zvp, shit really helped me understand a few things that i thought i know already. I suggest you try rewatching some fpvods on youtube nevake account, some stylish ones or read some liquipedia, im pretty sure most of the times its not your speed what is stopping you.
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Yeah, I played on Iccup at about D+, SC2 comes out, bam, im barely a D. This is really wierd since my APM rose. I have decided to play SC2, but still watch the SC1 pro scene
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I love the new iccup a lot less cheesers which means I can actually focus on improving my macro and mechanics. Last season averaged 130 apm this season + 190amp.
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On August 05 2010 06:02 Purind wrote:
Probably due to foreigners moving to SC2 and a large portion of the Koreans staying on BW. It's like the whole "I got X rank in foreign hours, but got X-2 rank in korean hours" thing that people have been talking about for the past many years, except now there probably aren't any non-korean hours
i think this is the problem here ; lower level players are hurting because theyre forced to play more koreans, while higher levels dont really notice because theyve always done so.
Anyway an important thing in times like this is to think more about your skill and less about rank. Having a rank is nice, but knowing inside that you are better than you were before is worth more imo.
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Wow, the op makes me want to start playing iccup again for the challenge 
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Oh man, I played a little BW while beta was down before release. I got creamed by D koreans. The only people who play that game now are people who are hardcore enough about it to not consider migrating yet. I'm impressed that you're even in the C's at all. I played some D+ players who I swear were B level or better. There were always smurfs, but these guys didn't have amazing records! I feel your pain.
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How do I delete a post?  Sorry ...
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On August 05 2010 05:36 Xeris wrote:
skill level isn't higher, it's just that there are way less newbs to inflate the ranks of people :p
Yup! Only the hc bw players stayed so there arnt any free wins anymore. Any rank you get now you RIGHTFULLY deserve ^^
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I can't even reach D+ now, and I was C high T_T
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All the skill-less noobs went to SC2.
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Yeah, I seem to be experiencing this too. Every single person I have played on ladder in my last 20 games has been D+ (6) or higher (12), except two, in previous seasons.
Don't really care about the rank, though getting to D- is kind of annoying since it becomes harder to actually get games with people that are D or better, and I really don't want to play people worse than me.
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same, I finally made D+ barely and then just couldn't climb
No point dodging koreans tho.
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You play terran at B level in starcraft 1, can still hit C, and think your not doing good? I could hardly hit C rank before starcraft 2 came out lol.
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[B]On August 05 2010 06:29 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
i think this is the problem here ; lower level players are hurting because theyre forced to play more koreans, while higher levels dont really notice because theyve always done so.
This is a good point. Definitely explains why some people notice and some people don't. I didn't really think about lower ranks being affected more, I just still don't really notice it ^__^
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I noticed it got a lot harder, but I still somehow managed D+ earlier this season.
Then I got a 30 game losing streak and dropped back to D. Ugh.
But yeah, I noticed that there's a bit less cheese than usual. Plenty of 2 fac and FD though.
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On August 05 2010 05:44 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 05:42 JohannesH wrote:
Yes, might be harder than before to get a high rank. But why worry about your rank so much? It only tells about your skill relative to the other people playing atm. As long as you don't lose every single game, and find games relatively fast, I don't see what's so bad about this. im losing every single game without learning a thing =(.....which is the worst kind of loss
you might have to learn how to learn then
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I find it a lot harder too.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of the worst players switched to SC2. I'm C- previous seasons, and I could sometimes go 12-0 at the beginning because there were some terrible players, especially at the non korean hours. So when you arrive in D+ ranks, quite a lot of D+ players actually reached D+ rank by running into terrible D players, so they are D+, but still pretty bad. But all the worst D players are gone, so getting D+ is not as easy. So the D+ players you meet are so much better than the former D+, hence it's harder to get C-, so when you play vs C- players.... etc etc, all the ranks are shifted. It might make less difference for the very high ranks though, since B and over will have no trouble to go through the 'new D ranks'
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Honestly, just keep playing iccup, and supplement it with USeast noob bashing sessions.
It's the only way I can keep laddering without too much frustration.
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On August 05 2010 12:07 krndandaman wrote:
lol i find useast more frustrating. due to the retarded lag there everyone can just go joyo or storm rape you
I find the maphack, disc-hack, money hack, and the map rig much more annoying
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Once the rest of the parts come in for my SC2 comp I don't think I i'll ever play a ladder game on Iccup ever again it is fucking frustrating to no end.
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On August 05 2010 12:36 Megalisk wrote:
Once the rest of the parts come in for my SC2 comp I don't think I i'll ever play a ladder game on Iccup ever again it is fucking frustrating to no end.
Now that you joined KPF me and lokim can offer coaching services
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On August 05 2010 12:49 Chaos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:36 Megalisk wrote:
Once the rest of the parts come in for my SC2 comp I don't think I i'll ever play a ladder game on Iccup ever again it is fucking frustrating to no end. Now that you joined KPF me and lokim can offer coaching services
Who are you?
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Oh shit lol sup man :3. I thought you were 'Yonghwa' on TL as well..
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its because all the sc2 noobs left, and all thats left are battle hardened truly dedicated broodwar conservatives
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On August 05 2010 14:02 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
its because all the sc2 noobs left, and all thats left are battle hardened truly dedicated broodwar conservatives
Most of which are Koreans, which were already 1 rank better than the rank they play on, because they have to play other koreans. Even at 3-4 AM KST, Iccup is still 90% KOR .
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On August 05 2010 05:30 neobowman wrote:
Same thing happened to me. I was trying to get to C a few days before the game came out and even then the skill level was higher than what I felt like it was before.
Was the opposite for me. Managed to get to C- while phase 2 was up with relative ease. Skill gap seemed about the same as it had always been, if not worse.
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Poll: What is the most OP race in SC:BW?Korean (8) 62% Terran (3) 23% Protoss (2) 15% Zerg (0) 0% 13 total votes Your vote: What is the most OP race in SC:BW? (Vote): Terran
(Vote): Zerg
(Vote): Protoss
(Vote): Korean
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On August 05 2010 08:12 zenMaster wrote:
All the skill-less noobs went to SC2.
Yeah, like Tester, IdrA and ITR. Let me tell you, they're terrible.
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Sigh... SC2 is where it's at right now.
BW is only fun with friends and watching and ICCup is too frustrating.
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On August 06 2010 07:19 gdroxor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 08:12 zenMaster wrote:
All the skill-less noobs went to SC2. Yeah, like Tester, IdrA and ITR. Let me tell you, they're terrible.
Nobody said ONLY skilless noobs went there.
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I like it better this way, I get flamed less and I get to face better opponents.
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Skill gaps are never good... if the community grows tired of SC2 and wants to go back to laddering on SC1... there will be a nice surprise.
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On August 05 2010 12:07 krndandaman wrote:ffs stryker is 4-3 at D level -_-;; edit: scratch that, 4-4 he ran into like 4 former b- at D level on the last week of iccup season. wow Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:01 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
Honestly, just keep playing iccup, and supplement it with USeast noob bashing sessions.
It's the only way I can keep laddering without too much frustration. lol i find useast more frustrating. due to the retarded lag there everyone can just go joyo or storm rape you
strong fd imo
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Yeah, the day of SC2 release I stopped playing SC:BW as much ;;, its just harder to get up now, all the new players are going to SC2 and now all I see are Koreans and probably some C- or over level D players .
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i know what you mean
i feel rusty man
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For D or D- players its the worst because the skill gap is significant enough to make us loose games in ways where you have really little chance to explore your own abilities and learn from the game. Imagine you're playing Flash and he demolishes you while you just stare blank at the screen. Well, for me, Flash is a D player in Iccup.
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Canada11350 Posts
On August 06 2010 11:07 Loser777 wrote:
Skill gaps are never good... if the community grows tired of SC2 and wants to go back to laddering on SC1... there will be a nice surprise.
Absolutely, after patch 17 and on SC2 has no longer been working on my computer, so I tried to go back to ICCUP (I suck by the way- I've almost won a game once on ICCUP), but talk about a skill gap! I don't know what magical time you guys go on, but in the evenings PST, there are literally no D level melee games. There's like 6 UMS games on the D channel and nothing else. I tried making a good old Python game, but no-one joined.
Switched to US West and surprisingly found a few melee games (last time there was just fastest possible maps), course I have no idea if I'm playing hackers...
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Iccup is alot harder mainly because the noobs aren't playing anymore. The people who didn't/haven't switched to sc2 are the ppl who were pretty good at sc1 or koreans who are still playing.
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Canada11350 Posts
On August 07 2010 03:29 LuckyFool wrote:
Iccup is alot harder mainly because the noobs aren't playing anymore. The people who didn't/haven't switched to sc2 are the ppl who were pretty good at sc1 or koreans who are still playing.
Mind you, if you've even heard about, could find, and actually tried playing on ICCUP, you're not that nooby, just an ICCUP noob. (As a self-identified ICCUP noob, I can 1v3 my friends on SCBW. Those are the true noobs who will have never have touched iccup in the first place). In the bottom ranks in ICCUP, you will have lost a lot of people like me (assuming I had a better computer) who were in a competitive void- too good for their friends, but not good enough for ICCUP.
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sc2 destroys skills
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On August 07 2010 13:20 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 03:39 Falling wrote:On August 07 2010 03:29 LuckyFool wrote:
Iccup is alot harder mainly because the noobs aren't playing anymore. The people who didn't/haven't switched to sc2 are the ppl who were pretty good at sc1 or koreans who are still playing. Mind you, if you've even heard about, could find, and actually tried playing on ICCUP, you're not that nooby, just an ICCUP noob. (As a self-identified ICCUP noob, I can 1v3 my friends on SCBW. Those are the true noobs who will have never have touched iccup in the first place). In the bottom ranks in ICCUP, you will have lost a lot of people like me (assuming I had a better computer) who were in a competitive void- too good for their friends, but not good enough for ICCUP. well yeah, those are people who don't even know what buildings do what. ive only ran across a few people like that on iccup. needless to say one of them had a 1-43 record.
Lol, I met a guy who tried to cannon rush (on Andromeda) into 1 base carrier.
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wait someone said this is the last week of the season? is this true?!?! OMG
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On August 07 2010 14:14 Metal[x] wrote:
wait someone said this is the last week of the season? is this true?!?! OMG
That would be early considering the season started on June 1st..Should end on September 1...but idk
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Canada11350 Posts
On August 07 2010 13:20 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 03:39 Falling wrote:On August 07 2010 03:29 LuckyFool wrote:
Iccup is alot harder mainly because the noobs aren't playing anymore. The people who didn't/haven't switched to sc2 are the ppl who were pretty good at sc1 or koreans who are still playing. Mind you, if you've even heard about, could find, and actually tried playing on ICCUP, you're not that nooby, just an ICCUP noob. (As a self-identified ICCUP noob, I can 1v3 my friends on SCBW. Those are the true noobs who will have never have touched iccup in the first place). In the bottom ranks in ICCUP, you will have lost a lot of people like me (assuming I had a better computer) who were in a competitive void- too good for their friends, but not good enough for ICCUP. well yeah, those are people who don't even know what buildings do what. ive only ran across a few people like that on iccup. needless to say one of them had a 1-43 record.
Well admittedly bad, but not that bad that they would not know their tech buildings. More like, can macro solidly once they have 5 hatch down, but have a really weak early game. Or players that refuse to make any more than 2 factories and 1 barracks and queue all their units. (Heavy micro player).Oh and most caster units are under-utilized.
Generally the 30apm players that have a hard time breaking the 100 supply barrier (a very common occurrence I'm finding with beginning or very casual players.) But these players will never have heard of ICCUP, never mind have played on it.
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