• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:05
CEST 21:05
KST 04:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results0Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion (Spoiler) Interview ASL Ro4 Day 2 Winner
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL21] Semifinals B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1874 users

Ampere's Law and the Displacement Current

Blogs > micronesia
Post a Reply
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24772 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 01:25:39
June 19 2010 01:22 GMT
#1
This a brief discussion about Ampere's Law and why Maxwell added a term for the 'Displacement Current' to a seemingly perfect formula.


When electricity flows in a wire, it produces a magnetic field. You can easily look up pictures online of the direction of a magnetic field around a straight wire. Calculating the magnitude is a bit more tricky.

The most basic way to calculate he magnetic field is to use the Bio-Savart law, which is basically just the integral you have to solve to get the magnetic field for a 'continuous current distribution.' It's the analogue to using E = integral[k*dq/r^2] to find the electric field near a continuous charge distribution. The problem is that this integral (bio-savart) is ugly and/or impossible to solve for most problems aside from the easy ones.

During a chapter on static electricity you learn about how you can use Gauss' Law instead of the big integral associated with Coulomb's Law for solving some problems that have a high degree of symmetry. This is often a great shortcut. The analogue to that for magnetic fields is that you can use Ampere's Law to find the magnetic field near currents (provided the appropriate symmetry and whatnot). For Gauss' law you imagine a closed surface wrapped around a charge distribution and relate the electric flux passing through the surface to the amount of charge inside the surface. For Ampere's law instead of creating a closed surface you create a closed curve.

Way to think about a closed surface: an empty plastic bag that is stitched closed to have no opening with a charge distribution placed inside it.

Way to think about a closed curve/loop: a string with both ends tied together to make a circle or similar shape. This actually creates an 'open' surface. Think of a normal plastic bag with a draw-string at the top/opening. In order for current to pass through the bag it needs to pass through the loop of the string AND it needs to bust through a hole in the bag somehow (similar to how electric field lines pass through the closed surface) otherwise the current would get trapped by the bag, which would be pretty depressing for the current since it just got trapped by a bag which doesn't actually exist.

Of course for Gauss' and Ampere's Law there is no actual surface or loop near the charge/current distribution... it is just an imaginary construct placed to allow us to use the simple formulas. To use Ampere's law you place the closed curve around the current so that the string lines up parallel to the magnetic field. The current passes 'through' the loop of the string, like a beam of water being shot through a ring of fire... or something like that. Now you can mathematically relate the amount of current passing through the loop to the strength of the magnetic field where the 'string' of the loop is. If you want to know the magnitude of the magnetic field near the current you need to make a loop with a small radius; if you want to know the magnetic field further from the wire you need to make a loop with a bigger radius.

Ampere's Law, u0*I = closed_int[B*dl] works great for simple examples such as a long, straight wire. There is a flaw, however, that Maxwell discovered (and integrated into his more complete 'Maxwell's Equations')

Imagine a capacitor. Current flows through a wire into one plate of the capacitor, and then an equal current flows away from the other plate through another wire. Since there is current flow there is a magnetic field, and while the capacitor is still mostly uncharged it behaves mostly like a closed switch. Let's attempt to use Ampere's Law to find the magnetic field produced by the wire leading into the first plate. We take our closed curve (string) and wrap it around the wire a fixed distance (radius) away. You basically just have to do [u_0 * I / circumference_of_loop] in order to find the strength of the magnetic field. But Maxwell discovered a way to make this 'break.' He placed his closed loop in the same place but imagined the open surface it created (open plastic bag) to be positioned so that the first plate of the capacitor was inside the bag. The bottom of the bag was positioned between the two plates so that no hole needed to be punched in the plastic bag. Looks sorta like this:

[image loading]
Image Courtesy of Glider*

You can see that the closed loop (orange) wraps around the current without any problem, but the open surface (green) it creates is stretched so that the wire doesn't cut through it (this is a 2d depiction but is really a 3d situation so beware). If the current doesn't cut through the open surface then according to Ampere's Law there should be no magnetic field... but if you choose to use a smaller 'plastic bag' then the wire will cut through the bottom of the bag. How could the size of the imaginary bag affect how much current passes through the closed loop? Maxwell realized that Ampere's Law was wrong. His solution? Add a new term to the equation until it works for all situations regardless of how the open surface is chosen.

The Displacement Current: I_d = e_0 * d E_flux / dt

The fact that charge was building up on the capacitor plates means that an electric field is being produced steadily... and you have to take that into account when trying to use Ampere's Law to calculate the induced magnetic field. In Ampere's Law, where 'I' appears, Maxwell said substitute in I+I_d where 'I' is the current being carried by a wire/etc, called the conduction current, and I_d is the displacement current which only comes into play when there is a changing electric field penetrating the open surface of the closed loop.


This has been just a brief attempt to make clear some aspects of how to calculate magnetic fields being induced by currents before and after Maxwell added the Displacement Current to Ampere's Law. There was no major attempt to help the reader understand the mathematics behind using Ampere's Law to begin with (it's simple to solve algebraically, but a bit difficult to set up perhaps). Since each reader has a different background with this material it will probably come across as confusing (vocab, assumptions, etc) for some people and elementary and obvious to others... but oh well. If any notation, names, etc are confusing please ask!

*Just kidding. Glider couldn't make an image look this bad if he tried :p

*****
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
June 19 2010 01:27 GMT
#2
If you're gonna post physics equations please please please please please use Latex image for equations... please.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24772 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 01:29:01
June 19 2010 01:28 GMT
#3
On June 19 2010 10:27 Count9 wrote:
If you're gonna post physics equations please please please please please use Latex image for equations... please.

I don't actually know how to do that so advice would be appreciated. Now keep in mind I purposefully am de-emphasizing equations in this description and they are there in a few instances just to make clear the readers are able to confirm they know which things I am actually talking about.

edit: not sure why you are making such a big deal out of this though...
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
June 19 2010 01:33 GMT
#4
Well, the easiest way would be to just typeset the whole thing in LaTeX and then publish a pdf and link that. The equations were hard enough for me to read, and I had studied them before. I really don't want to complain though, as you don't have an obligation to obey our every whims.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
June 19 2010 01:35 GMT
#5
I was actually just noticing earlier how, at some point during my time here at TL, I just started to accept you and Kwark as super geniuses without ever really consciously thinking about it. I guess its things like this that made me come to that realization.
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
June 19 2010 01:35 GMT
#6
I'm not sure I'd say that the displacement current was added to a "seemingly perfect formula". There was no experimental reason to doubt that Ampere's Law (which is derived from the magnetostatic case) carried over to the dynamic case--simply because of the magnitude of the effect--but the theoretical problems (both the one you mention and the fact that without the displacement current Maxwell's equations can't be correct because the divergence of the curl of B is not generally zero like it has to be for a well-behaved vector field) show that it's not so perfect.

Granted I'm not sure how developed vector calculus was back 100 years ago but....

---

I don't see a problem with the equations in this topic. They seem to be presented for completeness more than for clarity.

If you wanted to turn them into images you could write them up in LaTeX and then build the .tex, then screenshot, crop the screenshot, and host it somewhere. There's likely a simpler way as well (heh) but I'm not familiar with any.

---

Can't really comment too much on the presentation because it's pretty easy to understand when you have seen the argument before and know where it's going. :p
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
June 19 2010 01:43 GMT
#7
On June 19 2010 10:35 Bibbit wrote:
I was actually just noticing earlier how, at some point during my time here at TL, I just started to accept you and Kwark as super geniuses without ever really consciously thinking about it. I guess its things like this that made me come to that realization.


Actually micronesia is really bad at physics.

He makes great jokes though!
Moderator<:3-/-<
ptell
Profile Joined October 2009
United States103 Posts
June 19 2010 01:53 GMT
#8
Micronesia, you can use this website to generate latex equation in picture form.
http://www.codecogs.com/latex/eqneditor.php
DeathByMonkeys
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States742 Posts
June 19 2010 03:04 GMT
#9
Good stuff man, I'm actually doing this exact stuff right now in my class I'm taking this summer. Coulomb's and Gauss' Laws and what not. I haven't quite got to Ampere's and Maxwell's Laws yet, but soon I'd imagine. This will probably give me a good understanding of what's going on from a conceptual point of view when I do start them.
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
June 19 2010 04:04 GMT
#10
I am so disappointed someone gave this one star. Thanks for the review, would have been even better early this may ^.^
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-26 23:31:28
August 26 2010 23:28 GMT
#11
I didn't get what my professor was talking about at all today (first day of school :\) so I googled

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ampere's law maxwell term

and there was a link to this page. Thanks a lot for explaining why Ampere's law fails in the situation with the capacitor, the picture helped out. I still don't understand maxwell's term though and why it is what it is :p
AoN.DimSum
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2983 Posts
August 27 2010 00:27 GMT
#12
huh interesting topic. thanks for sharing!

funny how it turns up on google :D
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24772 Posts
August 29 2010 02:08 GMT
#13
On August 27 2010 08:28 Kentor wrote:
I didn't get what my professor was talking about at all today (first day of school :\) so I googled

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ampere's law maxwell term

and there was a link to this page. Thanks a lot for explaining why Ampere's law fails in the situation with the capacitor, the picture helped out. I still don't understand maxwell's term though and why it is what it is :p

Wow that's pretty crazy hahaha
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 453
UpATreeSC 122
BRAT_OK 87
IndyStarCraft 66
JuggernautJason55
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24789
Calm 2620
Sea 421
ggaemo 224
firebathero 198
actioN 127
Last 0
Dota 2
Gorgc8180
qojqva1513
monkeys_forever144
League of Legends
Doublelift2068
Counter-Strike
fl0m2115
pashabiceps1829
Fnx 1678
allub337
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu260
Other Games
Grubby2071
FrodaN1843
Liquid`RaSZi1386
Beastyqt1126
ceh9580
B2W.Neo563
Hui .202
C9.Mang0186
KnowMe174
ArmadaUGS107
Mew2King87
Livibee50
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 23
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 1
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 25
• Michael_bg 14
• FirePhoenix8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1131
• Shiphtur322
• WagamamaTV199
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 56m
RSL Revival
14h 56m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs SHIN
OSC
17h 56m
Big Brain Bouts
20h 56m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 20h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 23h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
2 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-13
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.