Starcraft players have to live an obsessive, singleminded lifestyle if they wish to succeed. It's this attitude that then gets passed to the audience who in turn are pretty nuts. I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language.
This thread is twofold :
1- I'm curious if anyone has not only learned SC/culture surrounding it, but applied these ideas to their real life. Do you find this culture has sort of awakened something in you ? I've seen some people who were pretty lazy but then became massively focused and dedicated once they found SC.
2- The second thing is my own answer to the first question and I hope I can get some discussion on it.
***Some required backstory***
I'm majoring in classical guitar at university, going into my last year. I've been consistent in my progress and am known to be good at some things on the instrument and lacking others. I started a little later than most. A have a very close friend in the same boat. We both try and hold to the belief that If you're going to do bother taking on any task at all, you might as well do it to the best of your ability. Long story short, after this year we will both be done school, but being just shy of having the skills needed to start winning larger competitions.
The Practice House
So we've decided we will live together and practice 7 hours a day (which seems to be the absolute top of what our bodies can take on the instrument ) in 4 hours and 3 hour sessions. In all likely hood it will be sharing bunk beds in a 1 bedroom, depending on what sort of accommodations we can find. We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
We plan on doing this for 3 years . That's 7665 hours of practice. They say mastery is 10,000 and I've already been at it in university for a few years.
When it's all said and done we will be just 25 and have a world in front of us to be well equipped to participate in. Their will be great challenges and mental breakdowns I'm sure; But I look forward to how this can shape my outlook on the world, self motivation, and my appreciation of these sets of 24 hours linked together seemingly endlessly, but not infinitely.
It made me wonder why this sort of thing isn't more common as it's wildly efficient, but I understand a lot of it stems from European values like entitlement, personal space, ownership, and things like that.
Points to Ponder
Would you ever consider doing a thing like this for something you want to spend the rest of your life doing? Why don't you ? I agree that it's hard to find likeminded individuals for this kind of thing. Are you lazy to take the initiative, or scared for what might / might not become of you during the House life, and life after?
On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote: I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language.
What percentage of the fans of korean sc do you think are non-koreans? I think you are probably overestimating it.
it's an interesting and logical idea, but how are you going to pay for room and board during that time? also, should you fail, the consequences are pretty bad. that is probably what stops most people from doing stuff like that.
edit: not to mention a lot of the things people would want to concentrate like this on would not pay even if they succeeded in becoming amazing
On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote: I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language.
What percentage of the fans of korean sc do you think are non-koreans? I think you are probably overestimating it.
probably about 5% ? The term " a lot " being relative.
On June 12 2010 01:23 Crunchums wrote: it's an interesting and logical idea, but how are you going to pay for room and board during that time? also, should you fail, the consequences are pretty bad. that is probably what stops most people from doing stuff like that.
edit: not to mention a lot of the things people would want to concentrate like this on would not pay even if they succeeded in becoming amazing
I teach guitar and perform for money. It's how I live (meagerly and happily) right now and is not very time consuming at all.
Though I wonder what you mean by "fail" . How can this plan "fail" and what are the bad consequences?I'm Not being interrogative or aggressive, I just can't come up with an answer on my own. It seems like to not commit to your projects or tasks is a much more surefire way to fail. You could argue the "all your eggs in one basket" type of thing, but the mindset you gain from this sort of thing is a very valuable trait.
On June 12 2010 01:24 Sharkified wrote: Wow good luck, dedication is a very good skill to have, and I lack it
Thanks! If I remember and I'm still around TL I'll make sure to bring you guys on the journey.
On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote: I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily,
How about Table Tennis?
HAH I had a lol on this. But SC is very different. I mean, literally, no one can compete with the Koreans anymore. Just look at WCG, or the relative success of foreigners in korea (Idra SC fighting!)
This sort of thing makes me wonder - is it a chicken or the eggs type deal? I mean, a person like Flash, would he have been very focused in anything he does just because he cares about what he is doing? Or, did SC awaken that aspect in him, is it really the one thing he cares about so much, but if not for it would he be a lazy scrub hanging out in shopping malls? Finally, it seems pretty clear to me that this trait will remain with him, which makes the previous two questions all the more salient.
I guess I'm just interested in achieving my personal best, but I also knowthat for people my age it can be incredibly difficult to consistently apply yourself, so I'm curious if it's innate or awakened......
MY ONE IMPORTANT ADVICE!!! Make sure you actually enjoy not only winning aclaim by doing whatever you do, but also enjoy practicing and performing it. If you don't like practicing your skill, forcing yourself into a commitment will be utter hell and doomed to fail.
I thought I loved swimming for 6 years of my life and competed and practiced at an elite level, but in the end I realized I actually just like the winning part and hated the training. Although I felt terrible quitting and "giving up" on 6 years of commitment, I am SOOOO glad I did. Now I switched over to Rock climbing, which I love every second of.
In my experience, even if you manage to stick to something you don't truly enjoy, it will be a half hearted effort and you will end up stuck in high-end mediocrity.
Make sure you pick the right thing to commit too, and don't be afraid to switch if you find out something isn't going to work out. Forcing passion is not going to work.
Success There's more than the 10,000 hour rule when it comes to Starcraft. If you're just graduating from university then you may already be too old to be a world class player. Consider the careers of every single successful Starcraft player in the modern Korean scene. Every player's performance seems to drop starting around age 20 and fall off into oblivion shortly after. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe it's the path of the night. Maybe it's simply something that happens as you age.
Maybe SC2's UI will overcome some of the associated deficits. Maybe the effect is an illusion. Regardless, you need to strongly consider the possibility that your age precludes you from mastering the game.
In the foreign scene we've got plenty of oldsters winning events, but that may change with Starcraft 2. SCBW saw many revolutions: APM, replays, the pro scene. There was never much new blood that entered the game after those revolutions, except inside Korea. It's possible those revolutions were what transformed SCBW into a young man's game (early SCBW winners were often 20+). Starcraft 2, however is much like SCBW post-revolutions. It may that SC2 is destined to be dominated by teenagers. Make sure you strongly consider the possibility that an age-limiting effect exists and that it may preclude you from ever being competitive in the fiercely competitive environment that will surely exist for SC2.
Culture / Personal Development Don't look to Starcraft as a unique avenue for personal development. I've played Starcraft for 13 years, and I've extremely fortunate to meet some of my best friends through Starcraft. However, despite my extremely good fortune, I still think that almost everything else in my life has been more important to my personal growth. I don't say this lightly since I'm more or less addicted to Starcraft and have probably invested more time in it than anything else I've done.
Frankly, the Starcraft culture sucks (at least outside of Asia). TL.net is the best site around, but the vast majority of posters here still suck. The strategy forums are virtually unreadable (protip: if you actually think the advice given in these strategy forums is valuable then do not even consider getting a Starcraft house. There is a reason why good players are at around a 1:200 posting ratio in the SC2/SCBW forums).
Even the personal relationships you make in Starcraft 2 are likely to revolve around Starcraft 2. Healthy relationships that will help you grow as a person need to be much more dynamic and involve many more elements than a single video game.
Conclusion There's a prevailing notion that we shouldn't try to dissuade people from chasing their dreams. I think that's true only if the person has any idea of where their course of action will take them. I want to dissuade you from doing this because you will not become any better equipped for real life after these three years are over. You will be worse off because your employer will want to know what the hell you've done for these three years, and you'll say "Starcraft 2." You are not likely to succeed at Starcraft 2. Even if there is no age barrier to Starcraft success, there's still a tremendous talent barrier, not unlike becoming a professional athlete -- yet should you succeed your rewards are meager by comparison. And you will not be more likely to grow as a person by pursuing this route. There's nothing you will learn from sitting in front of a computer screen all day that you would not learn equally fast by living in the world. And there is a lot you'll miss.
Success There's more than the 10,000 hour rule when it comes to Starcraft. If you're just graduating from university then you may already be too old to be a world class player. Consider the careers of every single successful Starcraft player in the modern Korean scene. Every player's performance seems to drop starting around age 20 and fall off into oblivion shortly after. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe it's the path of the night. Maybe it's simply something that happens as you age.
Maybe SC2's UI will overcome some of the associated deficits. Maybe the effect is an illusion. Regardless, you need to strongly consider the possibility that your age precludes you from mastering the game.
In the foreign scene we've got plenty of oldsters winning events, but that may change with Starcraft 2. SCBW saw many revolutions: APM, replays, the pro scene. There was never much new blood that entered the game after those revolutions, except inside Korea. It's possible those revolutions were what transformed SCBW into a young man's game (early SCBW winners were often 20+). Starcraft 2, however is much like SCBW post-revolutions. It may that SC2 is destined to be dominated by teenagers. Make sure you strongly consider the possibility that an age-limiting effect exists and that it may preclude you from ever being competitive in the fiercely competitive environment that will surely exist for SC2.
Culture / Personal Development Don't look to Starcraft as a unique avenue for personal development. I've played Starcraft for 13 years, and I've extremely fortunate to meet some of my best friends through Starcraft. However, despite my extremely good fortune, I still think that almost everything else in my life has been more important to my personal growth. I don't say this lightly since I'm more or less addicted to Starcraft and have probably invested more time in it than anything else I've done.
Frankly, the Starcraft culture sucks (at least outside of Asia). TL.net is the best site around, but the vast majority of posters here still suck. The strategy forums are virtually unreadable (protip: if you actually think the advice given in these strategy forums is valuable then do not even consider getting a Starcraft house. There is a reason why good players are at around a 1:200 posting ratio in the SC2/SCBW forums).
Even the personal relationships you make in Starcraft 2 are likely to revolve around Starcraft 2. Healthy relationships that will help you grow as a person need to be much more dynamic and involve many more elements than a single video game.
Conclusion There's a prevailing notion that we shouldn't try to dissuade people from chasing their dreams. I think that's true only if the person has any idea of where their course of action will take them. I want to dissuade you from doing this because you will not become any better equipped for real life after these three years are over. You will be worse off because your employer will want to know what the hell you've done for these three years, and you'll say "Starcraft 2." You are not likely to succeed at Starcraft 2. Even if there is no age barrier to Starcraft success, there's still a tremendous talent barrier, not unlike becoming a professional athlete -- yet should you succeed your rewards are meager by comparison. And you will not be more likely to grow as a person by pursuing this route. There's nothing you will learn from sitting in front of a computer screen all day that you would not learn equally fast by living in the world. And there is a lot you'll miss.
This is a great post and I don't want to make an ass of you but..
If your talking about my personal journey I've laid out, it's about taking the Practice House idea and applying it to guitar.
Don't lose this post because you can definitely C+P it somewhere! Also had a lol at how your fitting your name is.
man, applying the practice house idea to guitar? is it really that fun?
I think the reason sc pros can stomach playing for so long is because the game is so dynamic and fun for them. Guitar may be fun for you, but I dunno, spending 10+ hrs a day practicing something uncompetitive would be too much
I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
On June 12 2010 03:07 faction123 wrote: man, applying the practice house idea to guitar? is it really that fun?
I think the reason sc pros can stomach playing for so long is because the game is so dynamic and fun for them. Guitar may be fun for you, but I dunno, spending 10+ hrs a day practicing something uncompetitive would be too much
Kindly read the OP : (
I said 4 and 3 hour sessions, 7 hours a day. We're working up to that by doing 3 and 2 hour sessions right now so I dont burn out fast when the time comes.
While it's not why I'm in it, guitar is very competitive. If you can win a couple of the big competitions , your career is set if you so choose.
But again, in the OP I mention that what I find fun about doing something is doing it well. It's no fun if you can only see a half assed version of your ability shine.
But yes, it is really that fun. It's not always easy, and it's not always THAT fun. but I think something we completely lack an understanding of over on the "white" side of things, is the idea of delayed satisfaction. I know if I have a good practice month and I've gained tangible skills, these skills will stay with me as long as I keep playing and that's a really special kind enjoyment, more of a contentment.
On June 12 2010 03:14 YPang wrote: I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
Thanks for the support. It is an opportunity that I'm having to create a lot for myself. Going to school for music is a tough enough thing to agree to.
My logic simple.
Music is and will be my occupation and focus in life.
Barring some bad shit, I'll probably be alive for anywhere between 30-60 more years. So what's 3 years of really hard work if I plan on doing this the rest of my life anyway? It will serve me best if I get it in as soon as possible.
If you knew a business was going to succeed for 30-60 years, wouldn't you invest in it in the ground level? The returns would be massive.
On June 12 2010 03:14 YPang wrote: I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
what a cop out. it isn't because of your Asian background. You chose to accept this mindset, and you yourself decided to prioritize money over anything else in this world.
anyways good luck op, and nice call on including someone else in this endeavor making it much harder for you to quit.
We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
Recommend Ottawa. Has good art scene, decent sized itself; as well as being conveniently located between Toronto and Montreal, where I'm guessing "most" of the action would be.
We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
Recommend Ottawa. Has good art scene, decent sized itself; as well as being conveniently located between Toronto and Montreal, where I'm guessing "most" of the action would be.
Hah yea, it treats me pretty good and I give it a back rub once in a while.
On June 12 2010 04:18 Piy wrote: Is 7 hours actually enough to play to a professional classical level?
Anytime we here stories of so and so doing some insane number of hours a day its just that. For a few days, or on and off.
People very , very very rarely sustain high level practice schedules. It's the consistency (at least for me) that yields the big results. I already have a considerable time investment thus far, plus another year of school, then the proposed 3 years of this lifestyle. I think a big plus is that we rarely (if ever? never to my knowledge) have seen this sort of group mentality applied to music. I have lived with him before, and the amount of ideas and knowledge you gain just by bouncing ideas and being critiqued by someone else on a daily basis is very very substantial.
On June 12 2010 03:20 ella_guru wrote: But again, in the OP I mention that what I find fun about doing something is doing it well. It's no fun if you can only see a half assed version of your ability shine.
That's why you don't play BW!
I can't really imagine this lifestyle, so I can't really give any useful comments, but do you guys have enough money/income to sustain that lifestyle for 3+ years? Are you basically gonna be working shitty jobs to help pay rent, or is the teaching good, reliable and steady enough? If you can live happily off of doing something awesome for income WHILE doing something awesome in your free time, that would be really cool
On June 12 2010 01:32 ella_guru wrote: Though I wonder what you mean by "fail" . How can this plan "fail" and what are the bad consequences?I'm Not being interrogative or aggressive, I just can't come up with an answer on my own. It seems like to not commit to your projects or tasks is a much more surefire way to fail. You could argue the "all your eggs in one basket" type of thing, but the mindset you gain from this sort of thing is a very valuable trait.
If a year and a half from now, your friend or you suddenly goes "Nah this isn't for me" and walks, that may be considered a failure. Or if something really bad happens and you/your friend gets into an accident. Or maybe after a few years of living together, you start to not be able to stand each other. It seems your plan relies on both you AND your friend to be fully on board for the entire ride, so it seems twice as likely for this to fail.
As for the consequences, I'm not really sure. If this doesn't quite work out, do you have a backup plan? If you would be happy teaching guitar for the rest of your life, that may be a fine thing to fall back on, but if you want to do something more, do you have a way to do that if this whole thing doesn't work out? I don't want this to sound too much like "This isn't gonna work, let's think of every possible way this can fail," but I hope you got some fallback plan in case something does happen
I hope this all works out in the end. Good luck, and you better post a guitar cover of the Terran theme on TL
Damn thats really inspiring man, would def do it if I had the money. And if you really get a good routine with progaming hours, the initial skill improvement should be one of the greatest feelings. (i would imagine)
How about some vids of you shredding? and some later...
On June 12 2010 03:20 ella_guru wrote: But again, in the OP I mention that what I find fun about doing something is doing it well. It's no fun if you can only see a half assed version of your ability shine.
That's why you don't play BW!
I can't really imagine this lifestyle, so I can't really give any useful comments, but do you guys have enough money/income to sustain that lifestyle for 3+ years? Are you basically gonna be working shitty jobs to help pay rent, or is the teaching good, reliable and steady enough? If you can live happily off of doing something awesome for income WHILE doing something awesome in your free time, that would be really cool
On June 12 2010 01:32 ella_guru wrote: Though I wonder what you mean by "fail" . How can this plan "fail" and what are the bad consequences?I'm Not being interrogative or aggressive, I just can't come up with an answer on my own. It seems like to not commit to your projects or tasks is a much more surefire way to fail. You could argue the "all your eggs in one basket" type of thing, but the mindset you gain from this sort of thing is a very valuable trait.
If a year and a half from now, your friend or you suddenly goes "Nah this isn't for me" and walks, that may be considered a failure. Or if something really bad happens and you/your friend gets into an accident. Or maybe after a few years of living together, you start to not be able to stand each other. It seems your plan relies on both you AND your friend to be fully on board for the entire ride, so it seems twice as likely for this to fail.
As for the consequences, I'm not really sure. If this doesn't quite work out, do you have a backup plan? If you would be happy teaching guitar for the rest of your life, that may be a fine thing to fall back on, but if you want to do something more, do you have a way to do that if this whole thing doesn't work out? I don't want this to sound too much like "This isn't gonna work, let's think of every possible way this can fail," but I hope you got some fallback plan in case something does happen
I hope this all works out in the end. Good luck, and you better post a guitar cover of the Terran theme on TL
Los Los Los! Well I think an accident can't be considered a failure in anything. I mean, if I get hit by a bus, that sucks no matter how I was living life. So scratch that. You'll have to trust my relationship with my friend as much as I do.
But lets say it DOES happen. Well, he'd have to wait for the end of the lease (ha) . I'd just move out and on my own. By that point I would have banked 2 yrs practice, or WORST case (unfathomable though...) 1 year. That's just that much more quality play time I wouldnt have had in 'normal' living conditions. There is only gain here.
I dig, you are just being realistic. But any person wishing to be very skilled at one thing knows that a fall back plan will quickly turn into the reality . Everyone I know who had a fall back has taken it, because they get tempted then get stuck. It takes a certain amount of stubbornness to pursue something that might leave you in a rough financial situation (lets say I ending not being skilled enough ) . How would my life turn out if all this practice doesn't amount to anything "substantial", or the things I'm shooting for ? Best case, I just keep floating on , playing and teaching where the girls are pretty and the rent is cheap until my hands don't work.
Worst case uh.... See "The wedding singer" Adam Sandler, I guess , hahaha.
But yea the teaching and gigging would be enough in pretty much any major city. We are both fine with doing a 1 bedroom but we could support a 2 bedroom, or something bigger not downtown.
Tentative Schedule
8-12 AM practice
12-4 teach for an hour or 2 or none, eat
4-7 practice
7-11 profit? hah.
Economics
Say we each had 2 students for 4 / 7 days
That's 60 bucks a day times 4 days a week times 4 weeks a month = 960 X 2 = 1920
Rent for a 2 bdrm downtown is 1200, bills say 150 a month , leaving 550 to eat for 2 people a month, easy. There would be leisure money sure, but with less time to kill, less money to waste unimportant stuff.
That income is not including any one offs like weddings or things like that ,which can pay anywhere from 100-500 for 15 minutes to 4 hours.
And like I said, what's to lose ? What is anyone else doing 3 yrs after they graduate?
On June 12 2010 05:04 Slipgoon wrote: Damn thats really inspiring man, would def do it if I had the money. And if you really get a good routine with progaming hours, the initial skill improvement should be one of the greatest feelings. (i would imagine)
How about some vids of you shredding? and some later...
I don't really _shred_ much anymore, but this piece I wrote is dedicated to NaDa (yes the starcraft player ) and is pretty flashy. I played it at my recital last year. My hands were cold but its still cool
It won't be opulent , but it is reminiscent of how Boxer started Pro Starcraft . Just living in a house chipping in to make it work.
Basically, things like this are out there waiting for us, but you have to meet them halfway. You have to invite them, not wait for the phone call to come to the party.
On June 12 2010 03:14 YPang wrote: I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
what a cop out. it isn't because of your Asian background. You chose to accept this mindset, and you yourself decided to prioritize money over anything else in this world.
ok, i generalized a little too much, MY asian background.
This is fucking awesome. I wish I had the balls to do something like this. Great idea, you probably won't regret it, especially if you end up making decent money teaching (high level classical instruction is really expensive, I think?).
Do you have a backup plan, if you like, run out of money or something?
You're very good dude. Best of luck to you and your buddies. That would be a cool name for your 3 year experience... Mission to Mars. Imagine yourself in your 30's laughing it up with your buddies about the mars mission, amazed that you where ever so young and strong to ever even attempt such a thing. Image the cautious, probing stares of the people around you as they try to decipher what the mission to mars actually was, or is. Imagine the smug smile you could wear as you let your memories wander.
Just wondering ... how much do you charge for guitar lessons? And how do you advertise? Word of mouth, craigslist, flyers?
I like your plan and I think the fact that this is your major and future profession fits in well with such a practice heavy schedule. I hope you can keep it up. I think the most difficult thing is to keep these kinds of plans sustained. Even if you can keep this up for a month I think you might be able to call it a success.
On June 12 2010 12:40 patrickpower wrote: This will clearly work.
It might actually. Reminds me very much of the idea of forming a mastermind group, except more intense. If it doesn't succeed the first time, you can try again with tweaks here and there - more roommates, different hours, etc. Try to eliminate all of your distractions while you're at it - SC/TL, videogames, etc., so you don't just become roommates-that-play-guitar-occasionally. Remember that your primary reason for living together is because you have a similar goals and interests, and you want to make progress towards them.
As for SC comparisons, I'm willing to say that if you can understand the process in training for SC you can apply it anywhere else. Practicing mechanics has a significant similarity between SC and music; for a scientist it's more like maintaining your equipment and doing dry-runs of your procedure to make sure it works properly, etc.
I used to think this analogy was pretty cheesy, but once I started to actually apply myself to learning SC I came back with some more knowledge on how to learn overall, and that information is valuable. Strange how it works like that.
Thanks a lot for the support guys I know it's far off but this is sort of like the engagement party I guess, hah. I'll remember to come back to you guys.
@ TimmyMac Ty for the support . It's refreshing to see some genuine support. Like I mentioned, a back up plan isn't viable. This _has_ to work.
@ Lexpar haha that link is crazy. I like the idea of naming the experiment. Thank you for the compliment on my playing. (Your writing style is pleasant, btw)
@Lac29 30 bucks an hours unless there is travel time or more than one student in the lesson. Strictly craigslist, Kijiji, and word of mouth helps a lot. It's a crazy lazy world we live in. Thanks a lot for the positive attitude as well. Our thinking seems to be the same. There's no 'losing' when it comes to personal bettering. I think the really secret to this sort of thing is not doing it alone. Progamers just simply couldn't have such a rigorous lifestyle without the constant support of each other. It's like taking a positive spin on cult - like mentality ... Hey, if everyone else is doing it, I better do it too! hah.
@D3 Yea we won't be distracted but I dig your concerns. I like the idea of tweaking things as they go.
I think Nikola Tesla said something with the meaning of "The only experiments worth doing are those you conceive and the only patient willing to be tested is yourself"
On June 12 2010 01:23 Crunchums wrote: it's an interesting and logical idea, but how are you going to pay for room and board during that time? also, should you fail, the consequences are pretty bad. that is probably what stops most people from doing stuff like that.
edit: not to mention a lot of the things people would want to concentrate like this on would not pay even if they succeeded in becoming amazing
I teach guitar and perform for money. It's how I live (meagerly and happily) right now and is not very time consuming at all.
Though I wonder what you mean by "fail" . How can this plan "fail" and what are the bad consequences?I'm Not being interrogative or aggressive, I just can't come up with an answer on my own. It seems like to not commit to your projects or tasks is a much more surefire way to fail. You could argue the "all your eggs in one basket" type of thing, but the mindset you gain from this sort of thing is a very valuable trait.
1) as mentioned in the edit, the ability to teach/perform for money even if you don't significantly improve is not necessarily available in other fields. 2) mostly what I meant was the all your eggs in one basket things. if you can be happy for the rest of your life teaching and performing guitar for money then I am jealous of your situation. if eventually you can't be happy doing just that you might find your job options limited regardless of whatever you learned from the experience.
On June 12 2010 02:42 Failsafe wrote: Every player's performance seems to drop starting around age 20 and fall off into oblivion shortly after. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe it's the path of the night. Maybe it's simply something that happens as you age.
Yeah, when you get older you have no *time*. It's easy when you're in school and either living with your parents or in a dorm. You have all the time in the world. It's easier to get those 10k hours in to perfect a craft. You do not have that luxury once you're out in the real world.
This is why people have mid-life crisis's. They realize that their path in life is basically set and there's not much they can do to change course and master a new craft. I've slowly come to this realization as I reach mid-life (I'm 35, a grandpa in SC years). Thankfully I picked things to master in my life that I really enjoy (drumming, web design, computer programming, gaming, bowling).
To the OP, I say go for it. NOW IS THE TIME. My main advice (as someone who has been playing an instrument myself for 25 years now) would be to make sure you keep pushing yourself to learn new things. It's so easy to get in the same habits playing the same things as a musician. All that gets you is being able to play the same stuff better. It doesn't help you refine your overall skill set. Challenge yourself, talk to other guitarists, learn from other musicians (even non guitarists). If you want to be world class it's not just about playing guitar. You should also spend your time writing and composing your own music for example (on paper, not just playing). Or trying things that will help you in other ways. For example, learning basic piano or even drumming can help both your figure coordination as well as your limb coordination and make you understand rhythm in general better (after all you're technically playing a rhythm instrument).
This was my main downfall when I was younger. I started learning everything, and challenged myself at first but then got complacent. There was a good 4 year period where I didn't really learn much of anything, I just got better at what I already knew. This hindered me later as I finally expanded out again because some of the habits I learned weren't always good and I kept finding myself going back to the familiar grooves I always played. It took a considerable amount of effort to break out of this pattern, but I'm a better drummer now for it. I'm always cognizant of this now as I continue to learn and expand my playing abilities.
Anyway, as I said, you've picked a good time to try this. You probably won't have another opportunity like this in your life, so it's now or never.
^ This is really great stuff! I will go pick up a drumming rudiments book ASAP and start learning new shit.
Sometimes I get embarrassed that I have this great opportunity and tool for expression yet I play like I think I _know_ the instrument. There is so many possibilities that I know I have to keep digging.
It's great to hear the perspective of someone older, as oddly enough, people around my age seem to be a lot more "pragmatic" than older people. They all race to be looked at as "adults" and realize that is an empty title. Life experience is what makes you an elder.....
On June 13 2010 08:25 ella_guru wrote: ^ This is really great stuff! I will go pick up a drumming rudiments book ASAP and start learning new shit.
Sometimes I get embarrassed that I have this great opportunity and tool for expression yet I play like I think I _know_ the instrument. There is so many possibilities that I know I have to keep digging.
It's great to hear the perspective of someone older, as oddly enough, people around my age seem to be a lot more "pragmatic" than older people. They all race to be looked at as "adults" and realize that is an empty title. Life experience is what makes you an elder.....
There was a time, many moons ago when I felt I knew so much about drumming, as if I had *made* it. In reality, this is about the point where you are probably only midway through what you actually could become. IE, if you think you really know your instrument, you don't know shit yet.
Anyone who is actually a master at their given field will be the first to tell you "The more I learn, the less I feel I actually know". This is because possibilities are simply endless, and for whatever reason it takes a while for a person to see them all. It's both amazingly rewarding ("I see the path!") and humbling ("holy crap that path looks impossible, and there's 10,000 of them!").
As for an elder's perspective, being pragmatic is not just for younger people. Older people are pragmatic too, just about different things, namely the things that they have to worry about at their age (for me it's kids, home ownership, and middle management). But when you are able to reflect back to a previous time in your life, it's easier to see the realities of the situation in ways that those in it cannot. I used to get annoyed when my mother would tell me to enjoy High School and College because it would be the best time of my life, but in the end she was right. It may not have been always the best time, but it is certainly the most unique time in a person's life and one you do not get to do ever again.
On June 13 2010 08:25 ella_guru wrote: ^ This is really great stuff! I will go pick up a drumming rudiments book ASAP and start learning new shit.
Sometimes I get embarrassed that I have this great opportunity and tool for expression yet I play like I think I _know_ the instrument. There is so many possibilities that I know I have to keep digging.
It's great to hear the perspective of someone older, as oddly enough, people around my age seem to be a lot more "pragmatic" than older people. They all race to be looked at as "adults" and realize that is an empty title. Life experience is what makes you an elder.....
There was a time, many moons ago when I felt I knew so much about drumming, as if I had *made* it. In reality, this is about the point where you are probably only midway through what you actually could become. IE, if you think you really know your instrument, you don't know shit yet.
Anyone who is actually a master at their given field will be the first to tell you "The more I learn, the less I feel I actually know". This is because possibilities are simply endless, and for whatever reason it takes a while for a person to see them all. It's both amazingly rewarding ("I see the path!") and humbling ("holy crap that path looks impossible, and there's 10,000 of them!").
As for an elder's perspective, being pragmatic is not just for younger people. Older people are pragmatic too, just about different things, namely the things that they have to worry about at their age (for me it's kids, home ownership, and middle management). But when you are able to reflect back to a previous time in your life, it's easier to see the realities of the situation in ways that those in it cannot. I used to get annoyed when my mother would tell me to enjoy High School and College because it would be the best time of my life, but in the end she was right. It may not have been always the best time, but it is certainly the most unique time in a person's life and one you do not get to do ever again.
You're like a rarity on TL for being not 20 , haha. Diamond in the rough.
Well I'm aware that older people are very pragmatic too, but you'd expect the young ones to be "follow your dreams", and then someone comes up with a plan to work hard to achieve their dream instead of just dicking around and they poke holes that dont even make sense.
I talked to my friend about some of your advice and were both really on the level with what you're talking about. We will be sure to work hard and always look for the next level to go to.
Promise If I make any earnings from competition I will sponsor a small event on TL
If you can live happily off of doing something awesome for income WHILE doing something awesome in your free time, that would be really cool
I agree with this, but to make it work Ella you would need to make sure that the 7-10 hours of guitar practice/lessons is the focus of your day, as a job would be. That said, not all jobs have to be boring, and it seems that you are truly passionate so I say go ahead and try it
It sounds like an awesome idea man. You should do it if only for the life experience. Lots of people have funny ideas of what is a good use of time, and think that straying off the beaten path is dangerous and stupid. I think the opposite. Spend your life in a unique way, and you'll be much more interesting, you'll have valuable experiences that can't be found for 2 cents from your average stranger, and you'll entertain the possibility of being more than mediocre! No one ever got ahead by doing what everyone else does.
For how StarCraft has affected my life... It's so hard to say. I think that so many skills in SC are transferable that basically every aspect of my thinking has been altered by this game. I pick up new skills really easily, I research things I'm interested in, I have a good attitude going into challenges... Those are all things I developed with StarCraft. I don't know if I'd have developed those skills anyway from other activities, or how strong they'd be, but I don't regret doing it with something that was a lot of fun for a few years. Other important things I learn is having tolerance of other people... When you have a hobby as ridiculous as watching Koreans cry after losing StarCraft games, it really helps you to give other things a chance. I haven't seen that universally with people on this forum, but I believe it's affected at least me in this way.
The main thing I directly apply from StarCraft though, is efficiency in my life. I know how to plan slightly ahead, think of contingencies, and overall multitask simple events. It's something I just got used to from playing SC, I think. Sorry that is so lame but I don't really have anything specific to share :X I just love SC, u no ? But I had to stop playing because I hate ladders and no rival has risen to play me in 20 odd sc games a week ;o
Oh, Psychology! I learned so much about trying to explore my opponent's perspective from sc... and it translates so good to real life.
On June 12 2010 12:40 patrickpower wrote: This will clearly work.
Hahahahaha I'm so glad this thread got bumped, I hadn't noticed you're insanely constructive and polite first (and probably last) post the first time! It was so good knowing you PP. You give so much.
Ella, I don't know if this entire idea is a foreign as we all seem to think it is. Reading the history of many now-famous musicians reveals very similar experiences. Practicing 7 hours a day, sleeping in the same house, living frugally. These sort of things were necessary for loads of different bands. I think taking your extreme approach could yield exciting results... After all, inspiration almost never prompts action, action ALWAYS prompts inspiration.
Again, good luck to you.
Starcraft made me a better loser. As in I'm really good at losing. I can sit down at a computer and fail at an activity for hours before losing my cool. I can literally not do a single thing right for an entire evening, and still return tomorrow to try again. This "skill" has transfered over to other projects, specifically art and music. One of my first posts about a year ago was on how to deal with the emotions that came with harsh loses, I'v nearly gotten past the problem. Of course I still get a healthy dose of the nerd rage when all my scourge run into an overlord because fucking Emily messages me on msn with some dumb shit small talk and my game auto alt tabs. That happened today actually. I switched messenger clients. The healing can start.
I also learned a lot about the value of practice. I started playing drums when I was 10 years old, and I practiced every day because it was SO fun. The novelty wore off after 5 years, and soon I wasn't doing solo practices anymore, I only played when I was playing with bands. Over the last couple years that hasn't been the case. Unfortunately my drums are all packed up now (on the street corner is a more accurate. I'm moving house, I have the money for a new kit, they're worthless.) but I still get in some time with the practice pad most days. :D
EPT
You're very good dude. Best of luck to you and your buddies. That would be a cool name for your 3 year experience... Mission to Mars. Imagine yourself in your 30's laughing it up with your buddies about the mars mission, amazed that you where ever so young and strong to ever even attempt such a thing. Image the cautious, probing stares of the people around you as they try to decipher what the mission to mars actually was, or is. Imagine the smug smile you could wear as you let your memories wander.
