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Blogs > Ursad0n
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Ursad0n
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States523 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 02:47:53
April 25 2010 02:52 GMT
#1


*
You make it sound like there's a correlation between what should happen and what actually happens. I mean, life is chaotic and it's often unfair. I know it is for me.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
April 25 2010 02:57 GMT
#2
I think half the kids diagnosed with ADD don't actually have it, because some doctors are total quacks, way overeager to prescribe some pills to a 10 year old.

What do you mean by "fair"? If you actually need it then you take it.
deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 03:08:04
April 25 2010 03:06 GMT
#3
On April 25 2010 11:57 Sadistx wrote:
I think half the kids diagnosed with ADD don't actually have it, because some doctors are total quacks, way overeager to prescribe some pills to a 10 year old.

What do you mean by "fair"? If you actually need it then you take it.


The first part is correct, but the problem is (as I've been told by professionals in medical fields in Australia) that if doctors refuse to diagnose and medicate for ADD, and the kid has a fit or has a terrible physical accident somehow, parents can sue the doctor for malpractice.

They are actually covering their own asses to a certain extent.

I tend to think that ADD is a non-issue really, most of the time it is just kids acting out because of bad parenting/neglect or other issues, and ADD gets the blame as a scapegoat.

Also, these drugs should never be taken for progaming. It is clearly unfair unless everyone can take them, and I think it defeats the purpose of gaming because its really not the person whos winning necessarily, its the chemicals. Same sort of principles as apply in olympics with steroids etc.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
April 25 2010 03:17 GMT
#4
What bothers me, but I use the term fairly loosely here... Is that people who are prescribed Adderall or other medications are done so to "normalize" them, so to speak. What about people who are on the higher end of the "normal" spectrum but don't qualify for ADD, or rather aren't prescribed medication? Now, the people who have been prescribed medication have an advantage, not just an even field.

I suppose, what I'm saying, is that working through a disadvantage is commendable; whereas being given an advantage is not. In other games there is often discussion about how using drugs such as these is ridiculously shunned, as it should be. Hell, even as a college student when I know people who use them to write papers or study tests it bothers me a little bit. Some things in live are meant to be challenging or time consuming.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24734 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 03:46:33
April 25 2010 03:45 GMT
#5
On April 25 2010 11:52 Ursad0n wrote:
Okay we all know what ADD is (i hope)

Disagree... unless you mean what it stands for, in which case I agree. Most people probably don't know what ADD REALLY is...

On April 25 2010 12:17 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
What bothers me, but I use the term fairly loosely here... Is that people who are prescribed Adderall or other medications are done so to "normalize" them, so to speak. What about people who are on the higher end of the "normal" spectrum but don't qualify for ADD, or rather aren't prescribed medication? Now, the people who have been prescribed medication have an advantage, not just an even field.

I suppose, what I'm saying, is that working through a disadvantage is commendable; whereas being given an advantage is not. In other games there is often discussion about how using drugs such as these is ridiculously shunned, as it should be. Hell, even as a college student when I know people who use them to write papers or study tests it bothers me a little bit. Some things in live are meant to be challenging or time consuming.

Recurring problem in many places... for example special education. Students may get extra time to complete a test. You will be told "it's not unfair since they need those modifications." To which I wonder... what about someone who doesn't quite qualify?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
April 25 2010 04:02 GMT
#6
On April 25 2010 12:06 dethrawr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 11:57 Sadistx wrote:
I think half the kids diagnosed with ADD don't actually have it, because some doctors are total quacks, way overeager to prescribe some pills to a 10 year old.

What do you mean by "fair"? If you actually need it then you take it.


The first part is correct, but the problem is (as I've been told by professionals in medical fields in Australia) that if doctors refuse to diagnose and medicate for ADD, and the kid has a fit or has a terrible physical accident somehow, parents can sue the doctor for malpractice.

They are actually covering their own asses to a certain extent.

I tend to think that ADD is a non-issue really, most of the time it is just kids acting out because of bad parenting/neglect or other issues, and ADD gets the blame as a scapegoat.

Also, these drugs should never be taken for progaming. It is clearly unfair unless everyone can take them, and I think it defeats the purpose of gaming because its really not the person whos winning necessarily, its the chemicals. Same sort of principles as apply in olympics with steroids etc.


a fit from ADD? Please. you're more likely to get a fit from the medication. what most ADD kids needs are parents, not drugs
manner
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24734 Posts
April 25 2010 04:12 GMT
#7
On April 25 2010 13:02 d_so wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 12:06 dethrawr wrote:
On April 25 2010 11:57 Sadistx wrote:
I think half the kids diagnosed with ADD don't actually have it, because some doctors are total quacks, way overeager to prescribe some pills to a 10 year old.

What do you mean by "fair"? If you actually need it then you take it.


The first part is correct, but the problem is (as I've been told by professionals in medical fields in Australia) that if doctors refuse to diagnose and medicate for ADD, and the kid has a fit or has a terrible physical accident somehow, parents can sue the doctor for malpractice.

They are actually covering their own asses to a certain extent.

I tend to think that ADD is a non-issue really, most of the time it is just kids acting out because of bad parenting/neglect or other issues, and ADD gets the blame as a scapegoat.

Also, these drugs should never be taken for progaming. It is clearly unfair unless everyone can take them, and I think it defeats the purpose of gaming because its really not the person whos winning necessarily, its the chemicals. Same sort of principles as apply in olympics with steroids etc.


a fit from ADD? Please. you're more likely to get a fit from the medication. what most ADD kids needs are parents, not drugs

While you are probably right that a fair percentage of children diagnosed with ADD don't really have a biological problem, what evidence do you have to state so certainly that most ADD diagnosed kids don't need medication? Do you claim kids who legitimately have ADD can be virtually cured or the problem can be worked around through effective parenting?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
April 25 2010 04:12 GMT
#8
Too many kids are diagnosed with ADD these days. It's easy for doctors to prescribe it. I've read articles that some doctors even get more money if they prescribe ADD pills (probably not likely).
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24734 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 04:23:06
April 25 2010 04:22 GMT
#9
On April 25 2010 13:12 sLiniss wrote:
Too many kids are diagnosed with ADD these days. It's easy for doctors to prescribe it. I've read articles that some doctors even get more money if they prescribe ADD pills (probably not likely).

When were kids properly diagnosed with ADD? When did it become too much? How do you actually know this? So much stuff said about ADD seems to be the complete spread of uninformed misinformation which kinda bugs me.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 05:04:56
April 25 2010 04:44 GMT
#10
On April 25 2010 13:12 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 13:02 d_so wrote:
On April 25 2010 12:06 dethrawr wrote:
On April 25 2010 11:57 Sadistx wrote:
I think half the kids diagnosed with ADD don't actually have it, because some doctors are total quacks, way overeager to prescribe some pills to a 10 year old.

What do you mean by "fair"? If you actually need it then you take it.


The first part is correct, but the problem is (as I've been told by professionals in medical fields in Australia) that if doctors refuse to diagnose and medicate for ADD, and the kid has a fit or has a terrible physical accident somehow, parents can sue the doctor for malpractice.

They are actually covering their own asses to a certain extent.

I tend to think that ADD is a non-issue really, most of the time it is just kids acting out because of bad parenting/neglect or other issues, and ADD gets the blame as a scapegoat.

Also, these drugs should never be taken for progaming. It is clearly unfair unless everyone can take them, and I think it defeats the purpose of gaming because its really not the person whos winning necessarily, its the chemicals. Same sort of principles as apply in olympics with steroids etc.


a fit from ADD? Please. you're more likely to get a fit from the medication. what most ADD kids needs are parents, not drugs

While you are probably right that a fair percentage of children diagnosed with ADD don't really have a biological problem, what evidence do you have to state so certainly that most ADD diagnosed kids don't need medication? Do you claim kids who legitimately have ADD can be virtually cured or the problem can be worked around through effective parenting?


sigh i can't believe i put so much effort in this reply when i'm hungover as fuk.

well i think a lot of it depends on whether you think ADD should be cured or not. i don't agree with ADD being classified as a disorder, especially since so much research has shown a (edit: possible) correlation between high intelligence and ADD and its variants. People with ADD show strong non-linear and abstract thinking ability, the ability to jump from idea to idea super quickly, and other traits that during early years are derided as disruptive behavior but later praised as being outside-of-the-box and individualistic. the problem is channeling these traits into something productive, which is where parents and teachers come in.

if you do think ADD and its manifestations need to be cured, then yeah, drugs show the most empirical evidence of effect, at least in the short term. of course, there hasn't been too many longitudinal studies on the effect of these drugs so there is the worry that we're subjecting kids to shit we'll regret in retrospect. since so many kids are misdiagnosed anyways, i think drugs needs to be avoided except for the most extreme cases, especially since, as i mentioned above, there's no physical effect of misdiagnosed ADD that can be directly attributed to physician malpractice.

i would give you some good ebscohost journal references but i don't have access to that right now, sorry.
manner
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
April 25 2010 04:47 GMT
#11
On April 25 2010 13:22 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 13:12 sLiniss wrote:
Too many kids are diagnosed with ADD these days. It's easy for doctors to prescribe it. I've read articles that some doctors even get more money if they prescribe ADD pills (probably not likely).

When were kids properly diagnosed with ADD? When did it become too much? How do you actually know this? So much stuff said about ADD seems to be the complete spread of uninformed misinformation which kinda bugs me.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/01/23/34668.aspx

though rare, it is possible opinions espoused on the internet are actually well-informed ones. it might behoove you to actually do your own research if you really want to learn up on the topic, not just question the origins of others' opinions
manner
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24734 Posts
April 25 2010 05:16 GMT
#12
On April 25 2010 13:47 d_so wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 13:22 micronesia wrote:
On April 25 2010 13:12 sLiniss wrote:
Too many kids are diagnosed with ADD these days. It's easy for doctors to prescribe it. I've read articles that some doctors even get more money if they prescribe ADD pills (probably not likely).

When were kids properly diagnosed with ADD? When did it become too much? How do you actually know this? So much stuff said about ADD seems to be the complete spread of uninformed misinformation which kinda bugs me.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/01/23/34668.aspx

though rare, it is possible opinions espoused on the internet are actually well-informed ones. it might behoove you to actually do your own research if you really want to learn up on the topic, not just question the origins of others' opinions

Well-informed opinions like "what most ADD kids needs are parents, not drugs"? You suggest that I research this instead of question others... but my questioning is what eventually drew some useful information into this conversation. I don't actually disagree with you though.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
April 25 2010 05:21 GMT
#13
On April 25 2010 14:16 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2010 13:47 d_so wrote:
On April 25 2010 13:22 micronesia wrote:
On April 25 2010 13:12 sLiniss wrote:
Too many kids are diagnosed with ADD these days. It's easy for doctors to prescribe it. I've read articles that some doctors even get more money if they prescribe ADD pills (probably not likely).

When were kids properly diagnosed with ADD? When did it become too much? How do you actually know this? So much stuff said about ADD seems to be the complete spread of uninformed misinformation which kinda bugs me.


http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/01/23/34668.aspx

though rare, it is possible opinions espoused on the internet are actually well-informed ones. it might behoove you to actually do your own research if you really want to learn up on the topic, not just question the origins of others' opinions

Well-informed opinions like "what most ADD kids needs are parents, not drugs"? You suggest that I research this instead of question others... but my questioning is what eventually drew some useful information into this conversation. I don't actually disagree with you though.


yah but u made me use my brain on the internet. if u hadnt asked questions i'd be happily vegetating in front of the tv watching starcraft, not trying to string together sentences to from a coherent thought.

manner
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 06:21:21
April 25 2010 05:42 GMT
#14
ADD is nothing other than an excuse to sell speed to your maladjusted children.

Sorry to hurt your feelings but this "disorder" is just that and nothing more.

I am a teacher and parents are always calling "just to let me know" that their son has ADD and to ask if they "act up in class".

Usually it is the brightest kids in the class who far more intelligent than their peers but because of this are stifled and thus restless, fussy, and prone to distraction.

Growing up we always made pill-popping jokes about my younger cousin who was "diagnosed" with ADD and was therefore fed amphetamine salts (generic name for adderal) his entire young life. He turned out alright but the amphetamine merely white-washed his symptoms and made him speak twice as fast as other kids.


As far as the topic at hand is concerned.

How are you gonna monitor players and what they consume. Is RedBull disallowed as well? Coffee? Green Tea? Calisthenics before a match to get you pumped?
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-25 05:56:03
April 25 2010 05:54 GMT
#15
On April 25 2010 14:42 omninmo wrote:
ADD is nothing other than an excuse to sell speed to your maladjusted children.

Sorry to hurt your feelings but this "disorder" is just that and nothing more.

I am a teacher and parents are always calling "just to let me know" that their son has ADD and to ask if they "act up in class".

Usually it is the brightest kids in the class who far more intelligent than their peers but because of this are stifled and thus restless, fussy, and prone to distraction.

Growing up we always made pill-popping jokes about my younger cousin who was "diagnosed" with ADD and was therefore fed amphetamine salts (generic name for adderal) his entire young life. He turned out alright but the amphetamine merely white-washed his symptoms and made him speak twice as fast as other kids.


As far as the topic at hand is concerned.

How are you gonna monitor players and what they consume. Is RedBull disallowed as well? Coffee? Green Tea? Calisthenics before a match to get your pumped?

It is definitely waaaaaay over-diagnosed but it's still legit for some people.

Hmmm I had a ton of caffeine for my Courage :D I think around 200mg and I hadn't had any caffeine for a while
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
April 25 2010 07:41 GMT
#16
A recent study showed that children with ADD could improve their condition by playing video games where they resisted their impulses. This was said to have the same effect on the brain as prescription medicine. Perhaps this can lead to a decrease in medicine consumption long term.

As for the gaming perspective - there are plenty of ways to gain an advantage. Simply drinking coffee (or taking caffeine pills) is the most obvious one and will make you much more eager to win, though the overall quality of your play will diminish. A simple thing such as exercising regularly and working out can help your brain and body function better and indirectly effect your gameplay. I've tried both and exercise is way better. I'm fine with people taking whatever they want to gain an advantage in SC. At the end of the day it's a too complex game for the winner to be decided by one factor.
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
MoNoNauT
Profile Joined April 2010
United States74 Posts
April 25 2010 07:50 GMT
#17
Strictly speaking from the perspective of Starcraft/e-sports fairness:

I have ADD, and I can't play SC without Adderall. I was against it for a long time, because like most here I don't agree with "normalizing" the population, but there are a lot of things that I'm incapable of doing because of my attention span, and it took me until I got to college to realize that. One of those things is Starcraft, which requires constant knowledge of game status. If I try to play without it, I forget things like teching and scouting, and I can never even remember how long I've been in the game... until my zerglings are getting lazored by cattlebruisers. I'm not a progamer though, I'm just a silver league player... so I'm not sure about the implications of amphetamine abuse at high levels.

It's like a baseball player with MS taking steroids just to be able to compete. Maybe for any other baseball player it'd be OP, but for the people that need it, I don't think it's a problem at all.
"The best counter to anything in Starcraft is to go fuckin' kill him." - Day[9]
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
April 25 2010 07:51 GMT
#18
could you explain in OP what is ADD :S? I bet I'm not the only one confused here :S!
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
Ursad0n
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States523 Posts
April 25 2010 08:02 GMT
#19
On April 25 2010 16:41 Emon_ wrote:
A recent study showed that children with ADD could improve their condition by playing video games where they resisted their impulses. This was said to have the same effect on the brain as prescription medicine. Perhaps this can lead to a decrease in medicine consumption long term.

As for the gaming perspective - there are plenty of ways to gain an advantage. Simply drinking coffee (or taking caffeine pills) is the most obvious one and will make you much more eager to win, though the overall quality of your play will diminish. A simple thing such as exercising regularly and working out can help your brain and body function better and indirectly effect your gameplay. I've tried both and exercise is way better. I'm fine with people taking whatever they want to gain an advantage in SC. At the end of the day it's a too complex game for the winner to be decided by one factor.

That actually sounds really interesting! Is there any chance u remember where u saw it? If not i'll search for it on my own, 'aint to big deal.

My belief is that if you go into the Psychiatrist to see if you have ADD they will say yes. I actually do not know of anyone who went in and came out without being diagnosed with something. However i was curious as to if anything is needed to overcome ADD. I have been thinking about it and i feel that if you believe you need medicine for ADD u will need medicine, however if you just try to stay focused and try not to get too distracted you can mentally overcome it. Because with pretty much every mental disorder if you believe you can overcome it and you try to, then u can usually overcome it.
You make it sound like there's a correlation between what should happen and what actually happens. I mean, life is chaotic and it's often unfair. I know it is for me.
Unstable87
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia226 Posts
April 25 2010 08:13 GMT
#20
I feel i must chime in on this since i a have been legitimately diagnosed with ADHD, not quite the same. but still the basics are there.

Alot of the problem with ADD is that it is WAY over diagnosed, 90% of kids just need to be given rules and punished if they break them.

The best way i can show the difference beetween ADD and non ADD is a story given to my by a mate.

You have 2 kids both "diagnosed" with ADD. Sit them both in chairs and say READ THIS BOOK TILL U FINISH and put a gun to their head. (overdramatic i know but bear with me)

The non ADD kid will read his book no dramas cuz he KNOWS the gun is there. the ADD kid will FORGET that its there since he just cant focus!
FXOUnstable
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