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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
On April 20 2010 22:57 Plexa wrote: Why aren't you building corruptors if he's making phoenix? Their 2 armor makes phoenix useless as it makes phoenix only deal 6 damage to them. Over 30 shots from them before a corruptor dies  Because it was 2v2. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Good point, Phoenix are really really annoying in 2v2. imo they are more viable there than anywhere else. | ||
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Time2Shine
Canada12 Posts
Muta - Attacks air and Ground vs Phoenix - Attacks Air (special ability to lift ground) Focused You quite simply need a ground force to counter Mutas and a quick Zerg tech change. Might I suggest Stalker's with the Blink ability? Sentrys as well can work a Zerg ground force into a prefect shape that the Protoss can lay a hard beating on! There are numerous effective applications for the Phoenix in PvT, PvZ and PvP. Take the time to find the right one! | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
but, they are fast and can take out key units with decent micro. show 3 or 4 or them and the zerg is forced to stay in his base or add spores. if he moves out prematurely you can take out ovies and queens and then bring the phoenix's back to lift roachtanks while you kill the measly hydras or viceversa. i agree they could use some tweaking in the stat department but you are not exactly justified in proclaiming "phoenix is a joke". your blog is rife with emotive frustration which is fine- but dont try to defend yourself in any objective way when pzergling or chill calls you out for subjective lamentations. | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
use them surgically and you can do a shitload of damage while denying map control | ||
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Ideas
United States8174 Posts
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Tripen
Canada8 Posts
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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KwarK
United States44256 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On April 20 2010 22:57 Plexa wrote: Why aren't you building corruptors if he's making phoenix? Their 2 armor makes phoenix useless as it makes phoenix only deal 6 damage to them. Over 30 shots from them before a corruptor dies corruptors are awful vs phoenixes too. just test it with a friend and you'll see, neither can kill each other in any reasonable amount of time. iirc they are about equivalent in fighting power except that phoenix moves almost twice as fast and so if outnumbered, can instantly get away from corruptors but if they outnumber the corruptors, the corruptors will just die if they try to chase. it also means that losing a phoenix is like impossible since you can pull each phoenix away before they die quite easily (slow rate of fire, low dmg) | ||
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Try
United States1293 Posts
On April 21 2010 01:40 Tripen wrote: The Pheonix makes the Scout look like an amazing AA unit The scout IS an amazing AA unit. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On April 20 2010 20:25 Ftrunkz wrote: You're right, but lets give [Protoss] a unit that cant effectively do anything, thats a good idea, just to fuck with their heads a little... *cough* scouts *cough* | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 21 2010 02:30 Zelniq wrote: corruptors are awful vs phoenixes too. just test it with a friend and you'll see, neither can kill each other in any reasonable amount of time. iirc they are about equivalent in fighting power except that phoenix moves almost twice as fast and so if outnumbered, can instantly get away from corruptors but if they outnumber the corruptors, the corruptors will just die if they try to chase. it also means that losing a phoenix is like impossible since you can pull each phoenix away before they die quite easily (slow rate of fire, low dmg) But they soak damage - allowing mutas to clean up. At least that's what happens in my experiences. | ||
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
Phoenix play out more like a caster unit than an anti-air flier. Think of all the things they're good for, harassing queens, killing drones, nullifying immortals and siege tanks. The only air they really counter are banshees and mutalisks. There's no real reason to build more than like 5 of them. And they do counter mutas pretty hard it's just so easy for the zerg to counter phoenixes after 10 of them pop out that it's generally not a good idea. corruptors hydras or spore colonies. The bummer is you really have nothing to escort your void rays around. I'm kind of dissapointed in the phoenix as a unit overall. I think the corsair would fit in perfectly with protoss air without unbalancing things. | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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Thrill
2599 Posts
The Phoenix is one of your greatest tools in PvT. It's hands down the best ghost counter available if you use your observers wisely and have just the slightest hint of micro. Two-base marauder clump plus two or three ghosts EMP:ing is right now impossible to counter with any Protoss ground army that's available to you in early midgame. By having a small number of phoenixes - you are forcing the Terran not to go exclusively marauder as he will loose his ghosts very quickly to anti-grav (snipe them with phoenixes just before his push is about to hit - keep an obs ahead of your army). If the terran is forced to invest in Thor tech or 10+ marines - that's less marauders and suddenly the invincible clump becomes very manageable for a 1 colossus, 4 immortal, X sentries & X-XX zealot standard composition. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
don't know about phoenix in PvT but it seems to me that the micro and precision required to lift up tiny ghosts in a big terran blob makes it a pretty ineffective counter to ghosts... also what if they don't just go pure marauder+ghost, but have marines and medivacs... then your phoenix is fucked. I think the big problem with the phoenix is that it requires such a heavy tech investment... it's not like you just make a few phoenix and "oh well my plan didnt work time to switch gears" - building the stargate + 2-3 phoenix is like 600 mineral 500 gas investment for something that has a very limited window of effectiveness. if your plan happens to not work that puts you so far behind economically and in troop count because you've invested so heavily in the phoenix. i think THAT is its biggest problem... i think the op is trying to make its effectiveness more broad to make it viable to juse use as a unit rather than it being something that really only works in 1-2 limited scenarios. | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
To beat mutas you need a lot of sentries and stalkers, which ofc cuts into your colossi production but its a fine balance The best counter ofc is just to do a good timing attack before mutas come out For the high level zergs out there who ARNT going muta vs protoss, ofc it is just ez game for protoss... Go mutalisk there is no reason not to. Eventually stalkers have blink which helps but PVZ is very gas heavy so it is best to use cannons liberally for defence (minerals are pretty cheap in PVZ mid/late) If you don't get blink, eventually there will be a critical number of mutalisks where you can shift queue all protoss ranged units and win the game so don't let that happen | ||
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Time2Shine
Canada12 Posts
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