|
Most of the info for this build I got from FragKag's SC2 Computer GuideFragKag's SC2 Computer Guide and maleorderbride's Hackintosh Guide.
I would like to stay around the $1000~1100 budget.
Basically, I want it to be able to do the following (according to priority):
1. Play SC2 at max or near-max settings.
2. Run dual operating systems
3. This computer will be on basically 24/7 running BitTorrents and double as a network HDD that other computers can draw files from.
Here are the parts:
HP 22X DVD Burner Black IDE Model HP 1140i LightScribe Support - Retail $26.99
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $84.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.99
2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $109.98
EVGA 896-P3-1257-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 Superclocked Edition 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI ... - Retail $224.99
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP 600W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC ... - Retail $74.99
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM $9.99
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail $106.99
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $89.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail $167.99
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail $27.99
Logitech G15 Keyboard - $79.99
Logitech MX518 Mouse - $39.99
Total Cost - $1,139.86
*NOTE: Newegg wishlist will be uploaded soon. For some reason, it's taking some time for it to update on the website. Hopefully, that'll make it easier for ya'll to go through.
I also want to get this Gateway HD2201 22" Widescreen LCD (because I already have one, and would like to dual-screen on this). It's $139.97, but is not included in the budget since I was planning on buying one anyway.
Now, here are a few questions I have.
1. Should I stick with that GPU or go with dual 9800's, or something else? What would be advantages/disadvantages?
2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of going with the E8400 compared to a Q9550 or any other quad-core?
3. If there is a bit of extra cash left, I would like to increase my HDD capacity. For some reason, I have always been advised against going larger than 1TB. Since I torrent so much, I can fill 1TB in a month if I'm not frugal. In my case, would the disadvantages be worth going with a bigger HDD?
4. What are the advantages/disadvantages of going with a Full vs Mid-ATX? I think Full just means bigger, and therefore more room for future parts, but doesn't this also depend on the motherboard you get? If so, maybe I should get another motherboard and go to a Full, since I would like to get to the point eventually?
 
|
1. definitely stick with 1 gpu, if you go dual gpu's it will pretty much be a coinflip whether your games can actually make use of them, also if you want best performance/price ratio go with an ATI card.
2. generally for gaming dual cores are superior to quadcores, though that might change in the future. Also remember that processor speed is very rarely a factor in gaming performance, in 99% of the cases it will be your graphic card that bottlenecks. one game i've heard that actually significantly benefits from a quadcore is gtaIV, but i don't really know myself :p.
3. i don't know
4. Full is bigger ^_^, more room for harddrives/dvd readers n shit and usually easier to install in, mid will not take up as much room (:.
|
1. GPU is fine.
2. You will do worse in tasks like encoding but since starcraft 2 only takes advantage of 2 cpu cores, E8400 is pefectly fine.
3. There are no notable disadvantages, save for the fact that the price per GB is higher (bad thing). You will find optimal ppg around 1TB or 1.5TB drives. Add another 1.5TB drive if you want more storage.
4. With full you'll just have more room, which means your stuff will be cooling better. Your parts aren't going to be generating THAT much heat, so that case will cool adequately. Case size is motherboard independent since they usually drill holes for all the main motherboard sizes (exception being eatx not supported in mid size atx cases, but this doesn't affect you).
Everything looks fine except for the fact that Artic Silver 5 is now outdated thermal compound. Use something more modern like OCZ Freeze:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835202006&Tpk=ocz freeze
Reason being that AS5 takes several days of use to even reach optimal thermal transfer ability, and that newer thermal compounds obviously get you better temps. If you plan on overclocking heavily you may want to consider a more beefy heatsink as well. (an upright one, since those generally cool better)
|
get a phenom 2 X4 940 processor and a hd 5770
|
On March 30 2010 23:13 nttea wrote:2. generally for gaming dual cores are superior to quadcores, though that might change in the future. Also remember that processor speed is very rarely a factor in gaming performance, in 99% of the cases it will be your graphic card that bottlenecks. one game i've heard that actually significantly benefits from a quadcore is gtaIV, but i don't really know myself :p.
Duals cores aren't necessarily superior, its just that games usually are not coded to take advantage of more than 2 threads.
You're overstating the importance of the gpu compared to the cpu. A balance is recommended, with emphasis on the gpu, but adjusted to what he wants to play. In many modern RTS titles, the cpu is more important gpu for determining framerates. Typically, source engine games also have a large emphasis on cpu ability. (in this case, hes got the perfect balance for his needs since SC2 happens to be more gpu dependent)
Hate to nitpick but yeah.
On March 30 2010 23:24 Pakje wrote:
get a phenom 2 X4 940 processor and a hd 5770
Find a new motherboard for him and explain why this would be a better choice for his needs.
|
Thanks for the advice on the Thermal Compound xmShake. That helps alot.
I guess I will just stick with the Mid-ATX, and look into getting another HDD once this one fills up.
Based on these responses, my next two questions would then be:
1. Would I really need to overclock with this kind of set-up, based on the things I want to do? Is there any problem with upgrading the heatsink in the future if I want to start OCing then?
2. Pakje - What's the difference with the HD 5770 and Phenom 2 compared to what I have? They seem to be in very similar performance brackets, except I have read some reviews of potential problems with ATI and AMD with SC2. Cheaper, I understand, but I don't want to run into issues. I'd rather spend the money to make sure I get what I need.
|
Why are you getting the 2 500gb drives? Just for more storage space? Because 1 tb/1.5 tb drives are just more efficient with respect to space/$. Are you planning on setting them up in RAID for booting?
For heat sinks, installing a heat sink later is a huge pain in the ass if you have to install a backplate, so if you're even considering doing it, I would install it now. If you install it later, you have to remove everything from your MB, take out your MB, put on the backplate, clean your cpu and reapply thermal paste, put your MB back in, reinsert everything, and then chances are something won't work and you spend 1.5 hours trying to figure out what you inserted incorrectly (not that this happened to me or anything)
Personally, I'd rather not go with an older socket like 775, i mean let's hypothesize that in 2 years your cpu burns out and you try to get a replacement through warranty. In 2 years, they might not even make core2duos anymore, so then you'd get some cash equivalent or cash back instead. That sounds great, except you'll have to buy a new MB, probably new ram, a new cpu cooler if it doesn't fit, and that gets a lot more costly. Personally i'd rather get an i3 and overclock the hell out of it if you're set on dual core, or get an i5-750
|
|
|
On March 30 2010 23:30 TheosEx wrote:
2. Pakje - What's the difference with the HD 5770 and Phenom 2 compared to what I have? They seem to be in very similar performance brackets, except I have read some reviews of potential problems with ATI and AMD with SC2. Cheaper, I understand, but I don't want to run into issues. I'd rather spend the money to make sure I get what I need.
HD 5770 is bit faster (I heard it's faster in SC2), supports directx 11 and sips less power.
The phenom is just as fast as a e8400 in single threaded apps and in multi threaded apps it will be way better.
SC2 compatibility? Don't forget that nV recently fried some cards with their drivers. Anyway SC2 is currently in beta stage, so the possibility of errors is just as big on all manufactures.
TBH I find it hard to believe you pulled this built from fragkrag
|
1. I'd go with an AMD 5770 gpu over the gtx 260, slightly slower in benchmarks but its dx11, lower power, and produces less heat. they can also be had for ~$160-180
2. No reason to ever go dual core anymore, they used to be clocked faster than quads, and outperformed them in single/dual threaded programs but thats no longer the case, its a waste of money go with a phenom ii for about the same price
AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model HDX945WFGIBOX - Retail $160
BIOSTAR TA790GXB3 AM3 AMD 790GX ATX AMD Motherboard $80
OCZ Gold 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV4GK - Retail $88 after rebate
3. Many people seem to be complaining about the large drives having a high failure rate in neweggs customer review sections, I'd stick with the tried and true 1tb models.
4. the cm 690 case can fit full atx, or micro atx no worries there, you'll have no problems with it great case for the money.
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I'm not an expert in this area but here are some thoughts:
-Why buy two 500 GB HDs when you can get a 2nd 1.5 TB one for half the price?
-Why buy such a powerful power supply when you're not doing SLI? I'm sure you could save a bit of money here
-Why get an outdated processor? The i3/i5 can be had for just a fraction more.
-Why spend money on an aftermarket CPU cooler? Are you planning on OCing?
|
Thanks for the input on the HDD.
I guess I won't be getting a Heatsink at this point since I do not plan OCing, unless...
What is the difference between the Core i3 and the Phenom X4 as Pajke suggested? It is cheaper, but will it underperform unless overclocked (in which case, I will go ahead and do it if it's better)? What are the advantages/disadvantages of this? Will the Phenom X4 run into the same issues as the Core 2's with becoming obselete on motherboards as someone suggested?
Right now, you all have kind of convinced me to go the Phenom X4 route, but I am getting curious on the Core i3 route and would like to know how this is going to affect me.
|
I dont know about the MX 518 for playing RTS games, its more suited toward the shooter genre. Well at least to my experience, Ive been using a MX 518 for years.
|
On March 31 2010 00:52 infinity21 wrote:
I'm not an expert in this area but here are some thoughts:
-Why buy two 500 GB HDs when you can get a 2nd 1.5 TB one for half the price?
-Why buy such a powerful power supply when you're not doing SLI? I'm sure you could save a bit of money here
-Why get an outdated processor? The i3/i5 can be had for just a fraction more.
-Why spend money on an aftermarket CPU cooler? Are you planning on OCing?
1. I was thinking about running two OS.
2. I wanted to eventually get into SLI, but I wasn't sure if it would even be worth it, plus I wanted to get a modular PSU since I've heard they are better.
3. Yeah, I'm starting to understand this now -_- I guess the information I was reading on this was outdated.
4. I didn't even think of this before, but now I get it. Oversight.
I'm not an expert on this at all either, and I do appreciate the help. I haven't been keeping up with this at all since I've usually just built computers with no thought for cost. Just kind of bought the best or close to the best of everything and threw it all together up until now. Since I've run into a cashflow issue lately, I'm kind of really kind of trying to be somewhat cost efficient here. I don't know if that makes sense.
EDIT: The MX518 is the only mouse I've used for the last 3 years. I use it at work, I carry one in my briefcase with my laptop, I have one sitting on my coffee table, and all the computers I have at home. Basically, I just didn't want to have to get used to another mouse. It's not like it's a terrible mouse -_- and it's cheap :-/
EDIT2: BTW, thank you all for your responses. It really is greatly appreciated. I have learned more by reading these responses than in the last week reading pages and pages elsewhere. Sometimes, you can look at charts and benchmarks all you want, and still not be able to put all the logic together. At least for me anyways -_- maybe I'm just stupid. I knew I could count on TL.
|
|
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Just a note about running multiple OSs. You can partition your HD and install it on separate partitions. iirc, you just gotta do it right (if you're doing linux/windows, I think you gotta do windows first cause it will overwrite existing data.. not sure about this)
I just recently ordered a new desktop for myself, without really knowing a huge deal about computers.
This is what I ordered so if anyone wants to comment on it, that would be cool (I can still return most of the parts for a different one):+ Show Spoiler +BFG BFGEGTX260MC896OCDE GeForce GTX 260 Overclocked MAXCORE Video Card - 896MB GDDR3, PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, Dual VGA Support $209.97
Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500-Watt Power Supply $46.99
EVGA P55 V SLI Motherboard - Intel P55, Socket LGA1156, SLI+PhysX $119.97
Intel Core i5 750 BX80605I5750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail $209.97
Lite-On IHAS124-04 Internal DVD Writer - DVD+R 24X, DVD-R 24X, DVD+RW 8X, DVD-RW 6X, DVD+R DL 8X, SATA (OEM) $29.97
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum RAM - 4GB, 2x2GB, 1333MHz, DDR3, Low Voltage, Dual Channel $109.97
Seagate 1.5TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G $114.97
I went for fairly cheap parts so I hope nothing fails on me 
Ordered on the 23rd but customs has been holding onto the parts for a week now..
|
|
|
On March 31 2010 01:24 infinity21 wrote:This is what I ordered so if anyone wants to comment on it, that would be cool (I can still return most of the parts for a different one): + Show Spoiler +BFG BFGEGTX260MC896OCDE GeForce GTX 260 Overclocked MAXCORE Video Card - 896MB GDDR3, PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, Dual VGA Support $209.97
Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500-Watt Power Supply $46.99
EVGA P55 V SLI Motherboard - Intel P55, Socket LGA1156, SLI+PhysX $119.97
Intel Core i5 750 BX80605I5750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail $209.97
Lite-On IHAS124-04 Internal DVD Writer - DVD+R 24X, DVD-R 24X, DVD+RW 8X, DVD-RW 6X, DVD+R DL 8X, SATA (OEM) $29.97
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum RAM - 4GB, 2x2GB, 1333MHz, DDR3, Low Voltage, Dual Channel $109.97
Seagate 1.5TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G $114.97
I went for fairly cheap parts so I hope nothing fails on me Ordered on the 23rd but customs has been holding onto the parts for a week now..
Looks good, except for the seagate 1.5TB drive. They had issues a while back but they tend to be mostly resolved now, so if it doesn't fail right away, you'll be fine. Otherwise looks good.
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 31 2010 01:39 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 01:24 infinity21 wrote:This is what I ordered so if anyone wants to comment on it, that would be cool (I can still return most of the parts for a different one): + Show Spoiler +BFG BFGEGTX260MC896OCDE GeForce GTX 260 Overclocked MAXCORE Video Card - 896MB GDDR3, PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, Dual VGA Support $209.97
Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500-Watt Power Supply $46.99
EVGA P55 V SLI Motherboard - Intel P55, Socket LGA1156, SLI+PhysX $119.97
Intel Core i5 750 BX80605I5750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail $209.97
Lite-On IHAS124-04 Internal DVD Writer - DVD+R 24X, DVD-R 24X, DVD+RW 8X, DVD-RW 6X, DVD+R DL 8X, SATA (OEM) $29.97
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum RAM - 4GB, 2x2GB, 1333MHz, DDR3, Low Voltage, Dual Channel $109.97
Seagate 1.5TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G $114.97
I went for fairly cheap parts so I hope nothing fails on me Ordered on the 23rd but customs has been holding onto the parts for a week now.. Looks good, except for the seagate 1.5TB drive. They had issues a while back but they tend to be mostly resolved now, so if it doesn't fail right away, you'll be fine. Otherwise looks good.
Ahh, the reviews on tigerdirect seemed fairly positive (all 4.5+) so I went with it. I'm hoping that means TD didn't get many bad batches.
Thanks for looking over my build. Good to hear I didn't horribly fuck up any purchase haha
|
I see you want to pick up an after market HSF. Did you know you can buy a Phenom X2 550 and unlock the 3rd and 4th core with a motherboard that will allow you to and a little know how? The Phenom 550s go for about 100 bucks and with an after market HSF you'll be spending 130ish for pretty much a Phenom II X4 processor.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184444/phenom-ii-x2-550-black-edition-surprise
I recently built a computer a few weeks ago and I successfully got my 550 running as a quad core. Works great so far and I highly recommend it if you want to save a bit.
|
On March 31 2010 00:58 TheosEx wrote:Thanks for the input on the HDD. I guess I won't be getting a Heatsink at this point since I do not plan OCing, unless... What is the difference between the Core i3 and the Phenom X4 as Pajke suggested? It is cheaper, but will it underperform unless overclocked (in which case, I will go ahead and do it if it's better)? What are the advantages/disadvantages of this? Will the Phenom X4 run into the same issues as the Core 2's with becoming obselete on motherboards as someone suggested? Right now, you all have kind of convinced me to go the Phenom X4 route, but I am getting curious on the Core i3 route and would like to know how this is going to affect me.
i3 runs more efficiently and with much, much less heat. people are OC'ing the 530 to 4GHz on the stock intel cooler which is absolutely ridiculous. clock for clock the i3 performs better than the X4s except in a couple 3d / video rendering apps where physical cores > HT but even in some video encoding apps an i3 at 4GHz will outdo an X4 at 4GHz.
that said, AMD platforms seem to be promising longer-term support than intel. also, at stock speeds the i3 will perform worse than the X4 if not only because the i3's do not match the X4 in terms of pricing.
|
Didn't you say you wanted to get OS X and Windows. If you do don't get an AMD chip (as much as i love them)
If your definitely after a dual core get an i3
Also, i didn't think i was going to OC either but i did and I'm glad i accidently bought an aftermarket HSF.
|
The reason I've heard people mention when they say stay away from large HDD's is that if a 1.5 TB one stops working you've got a lot of data lost, whereas it's less (obviously) if a 750 GB one crash. With that said I've never had problems with my harddrives, I've never ever had one crash. I guess I should consider myself lucky. 
|
E8400 ( outdated socket )
Nvidia card ( not competitive )
Ati + Am3 or LGA 1156 please
|
Seriously.
5770 + phenom 955Be or i5-750.
168$ for a E8500 when the i5-750 is only 30$ more expensive ?
You gotta be kidding.
|
Please don't buy a GTX 260 at 225$ when you can get a Radeon 5770 for 150$ and it has the same performances.
For 225$ you can get a 5830 which is way better.
PLEASE.
I gonna kill another kitten pro zerg player otherwise.
|
Stay the fuck away from ATi if you want to run Linux. Not sure about OS X since Apple is happily plugging in ATi cards.
Stay the fuck away.
AMD will not run happily on Mac OS X either. It's easy to say "go AMD and ATi" and just look at price/performance, but when it comes to driver compatibility with non-Microsoft OS, AMD/ATi is still a dead fish in the water.
That said, if you want better performance, then you can go for an AM3/ATi setup (but that is only if you plan on going Windows only).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Get a 5850 for that money.
|
yeah
and just make $90 appear out of nowhere
|
On March 31 2010 07:51 Thrill wrote:
Get a 5850 for that money.
You won't get a 5850 for 225$.
It starts at 300$ on Newegg.
|
On March 31 2010 00:52 infinity21 wrote:
I'm not an expert in this area but here are some thoughts:
-Why buy two 500 GB HDs when you can get a 2nd 1.5 TB one for half the price?
-Why buy such a powerful power supply when you're not doing SLI? I'm sure you could save a bit of money here
-Why get an outdated processor? The i3/i5 can be had for just a fraction more.
-Why spend money on an aftermarket CPU cooler? Are you planning on OCing?
I'm just going to point this out about the HDD:
The two 500GB HDDs have a higher 7200 RPM and will be faster in retrieving/writing/reading data vs the 5400 RPM which will probably be excruciatingly slow at times !
HDDs aren't just about storage!
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 31 2010 07:57 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 00:52 infinity21 wrote:
I'm not an expert in this area but here are some thoughts:
-Why buy two 500 GB HDs when you can get a 2nd 1.5 TB one for half the price?
-Why buy such a powerful power supply when you're not doing SLI? I'm sure you could save a bit of money here
-Why get an outdated processor? The i3/i5 can be had for just a fraction more.
-Why spend money on an aftermarket CPU cooler? Are you planning on OCing? I'm just going to point this out about the HDD: The two 500GB HDDs have a higher 7200 RPM and will be faster in retrieving/writing/reading data vs the 5400 RPM which will probably be excruciatingly slow at times ! HDDs aren't just about storage!
But the HDD he listed is 7200 RPM plus iirc the higher storage space improves data read/write time because of the higher compression or something like that (no?)
|
oh woops not sure how I made that mistake :<
Well in that case, it depends on the HDD itself. Just because the hard drive is bigger does not mean it has higher data density! A 500GB Samsung F3 Spinpoint has higher data density than a Seagate 7200.11 1TB drive because the Samsung is only on 1 platter while the Seagate is on 3 or 4 (not sure)
The 7200.12 drives are also faster than the 7200.11 drives in general
|
I don't think he said anything about data density, I thought his argument was simply on a gb/$ basis that the 1.5 tb was much more economical
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 31 2010 09:11 FragKrag wrote:
oh woops not sure how I made that mistake :<
Well in that case, it depends on the HDD itself. Just because the hard drive is bigger does not mean it has higher data density! A 500GB Samsung F3 Spinpoint has higher data density than a Seagate 7200.11 1TB drive because the Samsung is only on 1 platter while the Seagate is on 3 or 4 (not sure)
The 7200.12 drives are also faster than the 7200.11 drives in general
ahh I see
Good to know
|
anyways the 7200.11 Seagates were notorious for failing.
|
Seriously don't suggest AMD chips. Mac OS X will pretty much not run on an AMD chip.
|
So, if I decide to scratch using OS X, I should just go with the Phenom X4 since it will outperform a Core i3? Or should I go to an i5? I am asking this in pure performance terms. After reading these replies, I think I would like to OC if I have too. I've never done it before, but if it is cost effective and efficient, why not, right?
So basically...
Core i3 + 240, OR
Phenom X4 + 5770, OR
Core i5 + 240? or whatever video card
Pros, cons?
Thanks again
|
i5 750 is currently the most cost efficient Intel quad core, and it performs amazing in every game and you can expect to perform just as amazing in every single situation for the next couple years. A lot of people love this core, but it does not overclock well at stock voltage. If given a voltage boost, it is capable of decently high clocks. It's at an $80 premium to the i3 530.
The i3, while it's capable of insane overclocks (if you give it a voltage boost) due to its 32nm architecture, is still just a dual core. As of now, there are still many games that are just optimized for dual cores, but as games become more optimized for quad cores, that i3 will lose performance even if you overclock it.
The Phenom II X4 955/965 are two very good processors, and generally perform on par with the i5 750 (sometimes a bit above, sometimes a bit below, depending on the benchmark and benchmarker). Most newer Phenom II X4 955/965s are capable of producing 4Ghz on stock volts. They are easy to overclock because they have an unlocked multiplier. The Phenom II X4 is a quadcore, and it performs better in just about every single application than the i3, at around a $40 premium. The biggest issue with this core is the relatively high TDP (125W TDP) and power usage. It is easily the most power hungry of the three. However, AMD plans to release a 95W TDP Phenom II X4 955, but how it overclocks is a completely different case altogether.
Now, with the i3 and i5, there is the problem of PCIe lanes on the motherboard. The i3 will only allow you to run one graphics card. EVER. The i5 will allow you to run two, but at your price range, the best it can do is either x8/x8 or x16/x4, both are not optimal, and the x8/x8 provides better performance at a premium. x8/x8 is fine for lower end to mid end graphics cards like the 5750, but once you get into higher performing cards, the lower bandwidth will probably begin to bite into your FPS.
With the AMD Phenom II X4, that problem is nullified by the existence of the 790FX chipset which lets you run both graphics cards at a full bandwidth of x16/x16.
As for graphics cards, if you are not going to run with OS X, you will definitely want an ATi 5770, or you will want to wait 3-4 months for Nvidia to release their midend 4xx Fermis.
+ Show Spoiler [Phenom II & i5] +
cut from my thread :D
|
Just putting it out there but I wouldn't really worry about stuff like DirectX11, PhysX, and Eyefinity unless the graphics card is around GTX470/HD5850 level. The cards out right now can't handle this stuff yet so don't bother. Eyefinity, for instance, can often bring a single HD5870 to its knees.
With graphics cards, all you should care about is energy consumption, heat production, graphical power, and size unless its a top tier graphics card.
Just one suggestion since no one really touched on this in depth...
The PSU is probably too much for what you're doing. A properly done stock configuration with an HD5850 only consumes around 400W total so all you need is a 500W PSU to power most single GPU machines. You also have to be careful of the model you buy because all PSUs are OEM - someone else makes the actual PSU, it gets the Corsair label slapped onto it, and its sold as a Corsair PSU.
OCZ have improved since they own PC Power and Cooling (awesome PSU manufacturer) but that doesn't help you since PC Power and Cooling only make the really top tier PSUs (1000W PSU LOL). The best PSUs (and this is not debatable) are made by Seasonic. The PSU is the only part of the computer than can actually destroy everything else in the box so don't skimp on it.
If you're looking for a lower power PSU, get a Corsair HX-520 or an Antec NeoPower 500W PSU. They're both modular Seasonics, which means they'll be quiet, efficient, produce less heat than other PSUs, as well as be reliable.
|
He says he might try to get into SLI, so the PSU should have a bit more power.
Just as a note to the OP: If you plan on getting the GTX 260, you will need 2x6pin PCIe connectors on your PSU. Most lower end-mid end PSUs only provide 2 6 pins. This isn't a problem with cards like the HD 5770 because it only needs 1 6 pin.
Antec EarthWatts 650W (2x 6pin) $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015
Antec EarthWatts 650W + Antec 300 combo (-$20 overall)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.345228
I really like this combo because you are getting a decently high quality PSU with one of the best cases on the market.
SeaSonics are great, but far too expensive imo
|
I'm not sure why you'd want to SLI/Crossfire unless you're playing on obscene resolutions with 16x AA. Did he say what resolution he would be playing Starcraft 2 in?
Yeah Seasonics are expensive but you really do get what you pay for. The Antec EarthWatts series are pretty darn good too since Delta Electronics make more than acceptable quality PSUs.
|
You can't assume that he will only play SC2.
|
OMG wow. FragKrag that information is definitely helpful. I have looked at benchmarks and such, but they don't explain how you just explained it.
I also do appreciate the information on PSUs Redshirt.
At this point, I think I will just stick with the Core i5 for the following reasons:
1. You said it would perform well for the next few years
2. Since this computer will be on all the time, I am seriously worried about my electricity bill.
I do plan on playing SC2 on maximum settings and not have to worry about choppiness, something that SERIOUSLY bothered me on WC3 (except I actually like SC enough to get a computer for it). To be honest, the only other games I anticipate playing will be SC2, Counter-strike, and Diablo 3 when it comes out. I do play WoW occasionally, but not enough that choppiness on it will bother me. If this is the case, will I really need to go SLI/Crossfire? Will the 260 handle these games fine on maximum settings, and if so, I am assuming the PSUs Redshirt suggested would be good enough?
I know I originally said my budget was 1000~1100, but if I have to spend extra to get quality, I don't mind.
|
you shouldn't need to go crossfire, if anything just buy a new video card in 3 years rather than buying a second video card right now. You can definitely max out SC2 with a 5770 and an i5. If you want to plan a little more for the future, a 5850 and an i5 will probably last you a few years solidly. If you go the 5850 route you will probably want more like a 600W power supply just to be on the safe side, the 650W Antec is definitely a solid buy
If you get an i5, oc'ing is definitely very easy. My voltage is at 1.3V (higher than normal so more electricity) but I can easily overclock to 3.5 ghz with only a $25 cpu cooler, and my temps are pretty safe at full load (mid 50's). Even if you don't overclock, for an additional $25 you can drop your idle temps quite a bit.To be honest I used the stock heatsink for a couple of days and my full load temperatures were really high even before overclocking. This may have been due to poor application of thermal paste, or maybe because it took me 2 tries to mount the heatsink, but regardless the stock one kind of sucks
|
What is a good heatsink for me to use if I plan on OCing the Core i5?
Also, should I go with the 260 or the 5770?
|
|
|
I have the cooler master hyper 212, it works like a dream
If you want the heat sink now, it's on sale at ewiz
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1947864
just apply the coupon code and you can get it with free shipping for $24
I'd get the 5770 because it can handle SC2 easily, and probably D3 when it comes out (blizzard is really good about making their specs pretty user friendly), and then if some other came comes out in 2012 that you want to play but your comp can't handle, then save now and upgrade later
|
On March 31 2010 09:59 Jlab wrote:
Seriously don't suggest AMD chips. Mac OS X will pretty much not run on an AMD chip.
I thought he wanted to run linux :o
sry
|
So now, my new build is:
DVD Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM $24.99
HDD SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD154UI 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $89.99
VIDEO CARD XFX HD-577X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Retail $159.99
RAM G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - Retail $105.99
MOTHERBOARD GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $134.99
CPU Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 - Retail $199.99
HEATSINK COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ... - Retail $34.99
HDD SDD OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX30GXXX 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Retail $119.99
PSU COMBO Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ... - Retail
CASE COMBO Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $129.98 COMBO
Logitech MX518 8 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Gaming Mouse - Retail $39.99
Logitech G15 USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail $79.99
TOTAL: $1120.88
Not as bad as I thought, and I think I kind of splurged a little by getting a little bit better RAM and an SSD. What do you think now?
|
That's way better =)
However i don't really know if you need that extra venti rad. Stock rad should be enough if you don't plan to OC.
|
hmm you live in the U.S which means..
get to a MicroCenter NOW!!!
i7 920 = $169.99
GTX 260 = 159.99
Other changes:
- Go DDR3 Ram for slightly more $$ (well worth it)
- Better quality MB that will handle the i7
- Don't mind ppl saying ur PSU is too powerful.. Having a good PSU is worth it in the long run if u ever decide to go SLI.. To be honest, I would go higher. To save even more money get a case that combos with a PSU.
Overall in terms of pricing.. you just have to be lucky.
This past year on newegg, i got a sick combo deal with an Antec 1200 case, 750w PSU, 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm for $250 shipped.
|
On April 01 2010 06:51 mlee wrote:
i7 920 = $169.99
O,o
o,O
|
i7 920 requires a much more expensive motherboard, and the GTX 260 at $160, while good, is still a power hungry GPU that runs quite hot compared to the 5770. TheosEx, the only part I would change (which isn't a very large one), is that SSD.
The Intel X25-V is $5 more, has 10 GB more, but has lower sequential read/write speeds. The really only negative about the X25-V is the sequential write, but where it comes out on top is the random write. The Intel X25-V 40GB is based on Intel's SSD controller, which at this moment is far superior to the other controllers (except the relatively untested Sandforce) on the market when it comes to random access (which is generally most of what you want to do on a small drive anyways).
|
|
|
Time to get a green card :p
|
I just picked up an i7 860 for $200 from Microcenter :3
|
With a 1000$ budget definitely go for an i5 or i7 if you want to perform well in the future. So what kragfrag said. Right now sli or crossfire are somewhat useless because you will simply buy another powerful graphic card that will outperform every single aspect when the price will drop.
|
Crossfire is good because it isn't useless! 2x 4850 in crossfire is probably one of the most cost efficient setups out there at the moment. 2x 5770 in crossfire perform above the level of the 5850 (though crossfire 5770 is only relevant when the 5850 is more expensive than the two 5770s put together).
|
Oh my bad then, i swear i saw 5850 costing like 200E whereas for the 5770 it was something like 125E...
|
On April 01 2010 08:28 FragKrag wrote:
Crossfire is good because it isn't useless! 2x 4850 in crossfire is probably one of the most cost efficient setups out there at the moment. 2x 5770 in crossfire perform above the level of the 5850 (though crossfire 5770 is only relevant when the 5850 is more expensive than the two 5770s put together).
Yeah crossfire isn't as great as nvidia's sli scaling but def isn't useless.
Well you also take into the cost of the psu and motherboard that must support it.
|
Artic silver is actually rated one of THE best thermal compound and would not be a waste since it is only a couple of bucks. If he plans to overclock, it would be a worthwhile investment as well.
Also, to the OP. If you have no experience with OCing, buy a PSU that gives your more leverage so that even when you up your voltages, you don't experience lock ups in game when your CPU and GPU is sucking all the power. Do some more research on the REVIEWS and FEEDBACK of the customers of these products and then make your decision. Don't rush it.
|
Hrmm... that Core i7 920 is almost half-price.
It just so happens that I live about an 1 hour from a MicroCenter. I live in TN, and my ex-gf lives in Marietta, GA. I was going to have my Newegg order shipped there since I get charged taxes in TN. Maybe I could order all of my Newegg parts and just get the CPU while I'm there?
What would be a good motherboard to pair up with this thing? And will all the other parts I picked on the previous post work well with it?
Will it be worth the trouble?
Thoughts?
|
Arctic silver is a huge waste since most thermal compounds differ by around 1 or 2C.
The i7 920 is an awesome core, but the problem is that you will have to buy an expensive motherboard ($180 for the low end), along with higher power consumption.
The plus side is that it also allows you to use dual X16 PCIe 2.0 slots for CrossFire/SLI performance. It also overclocks very well on stock voltages. All of your parts would work with the i7 920 except the motherboard. If you get an i7 920 and don't overclock it, it's a wasted effort since the i5 750 will perform better/equal in most games at the moment.
Gigabyte UD3R $210
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423
EVGA $230 ($30 Mail in Rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049
Edit: It's really not worth it to invest in a X58 LGA 1366 setup unless you really want to CrossFire/SLi. While the i7 920 at $170 is a steal, the cost of the motherboard itself already erases any benefit :p
|
Won't a more expensive mother board allow me more room for upgradeability in the future? Or will this not be a factor? Or will the performance gained from i5 to i7 not even be noticeable unless I'm doing some crazy stuff (which I won't).
|
It won't be noticeable unless you are going to be doing encoding (even then it's not huge). The motherboard will allow for more upgradeability in the future, but only in CPU (they are already expensive enough), Crossfire/SLI (which requires a more powerful PSU).
I'm really against X58 unless you are going to do some heavy CPU/Memory intensive work that will justify the triple channel memory and the high power usage of the CPU, or if you are going to upgrade into a high-power SLI/Crossfire setup that will utilize the x16 bandwidth.
|
Nah, at this point, the most performance-drawing activity I will be doing is playing SC2 probably. I still play CS for goodness sake :-p
Thanks for the help. I guess I am now almost 99% sure what I will be getting. I'll just do some final price checks and minor preference look-ups (i.e. comparing a couple of cases I like).
THANKS FOR THE HELP ALL
|
On April 01 2010 08:08 FragKrag wrote:
I just picked up an i7 860 for $200 from Microcenter :3
Wtf! The price of an 860 here is more then that in POUNDS Something like $350 after conversion.
WOE IS ME
|
microcenter is indeed awesome, got my i5 for $150 in January
|
|
|
get crosshair 3 formula motherboard, get ati 5770 , get phenom 2 quad core 955 or 965 GG!!
and yeah dont forget a 750-800 watt power supply .
|
Crosshair 3 and the ASUS RoG boards in general are all gimmicks. A 5770 and Phenom II will run on a 500W PSU. Why waste money
|
I have a 5770 and an Athlon II (OC'd to 3.25 GHz) and i haven't had a problem on my 550W PSU.
|
On March 31 2010 23:38 TheosEx wrote:
2. Since this computer will be on all the time, I am seriously worried about my electricity bill.
Sorry to interrupt, but does anyone know what the electrical cost is for citizens of the US/Canada? Let's say the computer is on about 6 hours a day.
|
It depends on the state. :/
I believe here in CA, we have one of the highest electricity costs.
|
such a waste good random read times but i could just raid 2 500gb 7200.12 and get better read and write times by far esp under write times dealing with sequential writes ie recording things making it as good as a 300 dollar ssd - the power and silence but a + in storage
imo it's top of the line ssd or not at all unless you're going for a silent system.
|
On April 02 2010 16:06 buickskylark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 23:38 TheosEx wrote:
2. Since this computer will be on all the time, I am seriously worried about my electricity bill.
Sorry to interrupt, but does anyone know what the electrical cost is for citizens of the US/Canada? Let's say the computer is on about 6 hours a day.
Depends where you live and how much the computer is under load how much draw your computer needs and the efficiency of the psu, in the end it's likely to only be about an extra 50-200 dollars to your electricity bill at the end of the year.
|
On April 02 2010 07:28 FragKrag wrote:
Crosshair 3 and the ASUS RoG boards in general are all gimmicks. A 5770 and Phenom II will run on a 500W PSU. Why waste money
they are a niche product for those with alot of money or for those wanting to oc big time off liquid helium or ln2 really or one who will shove waterblocks and do a high end oc 24/7.
def not for someone only getting a phenom ii and a 5770 there are such better ways to spend your money, those 300 dollar boards from evga, gigabyte, msi and asus are mean for long term oc abuse, the real pc enthusiast. if you just want to play games invest heavily into a gpu then into a cpu and progressively spend less and less on parts.
gpu>cpu>psu>ram=motherboard=hdd...
in terms of things you can gimp out on motherboards tend to be one of the more forgiving ones just pick the right chipset and performance is usually =, it's the extras like more pci slots or something that costs you.
|
On April 02 2010 17:38 semantics wrote:such a waste good random read times but i could just raid 2 500gb 7200.12 and get better read and write times by far esp under write times dealing with sequential writes ie recording things making it as good as a 300 dollar ssd - the power and silence but a + in storage imo it's top of the line ssd or not at all unless you're going for a silent system.
Why do people think that RAID is a capable solution for terrible random access and random read/writes? You can RAID all you want, but you still aren't going to match the performance of an Intel SSD in random read/write.
IMO it's
CPU > GPU > PSU > MOBO > RAM > HDD
for most people who don't care about overclocking.
CPU > MOBO >= RAM = PSU > GPU > HDD
for overclocking
CPU > GPU > MOBO > HDD > PSU > RAM
for high performance in general
|
Man i can't wait to build a new computer now. I'm sure ill do 100% better after all the things i've learned from working on mine and reading these discussions.
|
On April 02 2010 23:43 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 17:38 semantics wrote:such a waste good random read times but i could just raid 2 500gb 7200.12 and get better read and write times by far esp under write times dealing with sequential writes ie recording things making it as good as a 300 dollar ssd - the power and silence but a + in storage imo it's top of the line ssd or not at all unless you're going for a silent system. Why do people think that RAID is a capable solution for terrible random access and random read/writes? You can RAID all you want, but you still aren't going to match the performance of an Intel SSD in random read/write. IMO it's CPU > GPU > PSU > MOBO > RAM > HDD for most people who don't care about overclocking. CPU > MOBO >= RAM = PSU > GPU > HDD for overclocking CPU > GPU > MOBO > HDD > PSU > RAM for high performance in general
You don't get better random access times but on a proper raid setup you get better small read and write times which is mostly what hdd's lack that cases the huge performance diff between the two. Although you get amazing throughput sequential read and write times which is important to those who record using like fraps and stuff.
I run a 4 hdd set up most currently, going 1 hdd for os and programs, 2 hdd's for recording, offloading, editing and downloads, 1 hdd for storage.
In terms of games performance alone the cpu isn't more important then the gpu, but it def still is imporant esp if you want a well rounded computer that can do a bit of everything well.
|
RAID is worthless when it comes down to most everyday tasks like random read/write. A SSD will open numerous programs instantly while your RAID array will still struggle.
|
Didn't read through the posts but with a 1.2k budget, getting a 775 socket build is retarded. For hard drives since you want to have so much storage, you should get ONE main drive(os, games, apps), and 1-2 western digital 2TB green drives(these are low power 5.4k rpm drives, specifically for storage).
General PC tips.
-i3 520, i5 750, i7 920/30, phenom x4 955 are the best price/performance cpus out right now
-Corsair/Antec/Seasonic make the best PSU's <-DONT SKIM ON THIS!
-Gigabyte/Asus/EVGA/Msi mobos are good
-Graphics you want to get ATI at the moment, 4870/5770 are great cards for mid-ranged
-Every ram is pretty much the same, just make sure you get the right type for your mobo/cpu.
-Western digital makes the best HDD's, Samsungs are decent, Seagate/Hiatchi have higher failure rates
If you have a local fry's or microcenter you can save hundreds of bucks on parts, a two hour drive is worth it! Here is an example of what I mean by ridiculous prices, they practically give away a free motherboard, you just have to catch the deals as soon as they come out every friday. http://www.frys.com/product/6096078?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
