So I was listening to Live on 3 this afternoon while Kennigit and Hot_Bid were on with djWHEAT when djWHEAT brought up the StarCraft 2 beta. The conversation was about how the beta is likely to be coming soon. I said to myself "Haha, that's just a pipedream," which is the same thing I've been telling myself and others for a long time now.
Then it dawned on me: I don't want StarCraft 2 to come out.
Surprisingly enough, StarCraft 2 isn't the reason I don't want it to come out (if you get what I mean). It's not because I am going to dislike the game, because I can't pass that judgment yet. I'm excited about the new Battle.net features. I really want to see the new storyline. I have every reason to be excited about StarCraft 2.
The real reason, I have come to realize, is that I don't want Brood War to die. I love Brood War. For the past 4 or 5 years of my life, it has been the passion of my gaming life. No other game has managed to absorb me in as wholly as StarCraft. I have spent countless hours watching VODs, playing ladders, writing and reading articles and running events in the past, all because I love Brood War. I love nothing more than sitting down and watching an intense TvZ between players like Flash and Jaedong. I like the way that the game is still evolving, 11 years after it's release. And I don't want that to go yet.
I don't want StarCraft 2 to kill Brood War. I don't want StarCraft 2 to come out yet.
I must admit, pro-StarCraft 1 has been growing on me lately. A LOT.
I wish I knew wtf was going to happen when sc2 comes out. Because on one hand, I want to play that game more than any other new game I've seen, but on the other, SC 1 is so good.
As you said, the new features will be awesome. But I'm wondering, can it replace something that is already so well made?
Mostly because I have never really played SC competitively; I don't want to put in the work to be mediocre at a game nobody I know plays. With SC2 I hope to be pretty good at a game most of my friends will play. Although most of them probably only play the UMS.
i feel the same way and i think 90+% of koreans feel the same way as well, starcraft 2 is nothing like sc ; bw and alot of the koreans in korean community feel that SC2 will destroy the gaming industry. Because SC is perfect game and imo the reason pro gaming has done so well for SC for so long is due to the fact that you cant just pick up SC game , mouse and keyboard and expect to be pro immediatly , in the first year or first few years, or for many ever. Although this game is so perfect that it leaves me coming to the conclusion after watching many battlereports that SC2 will be fun, but it wont be starcraft. it's so far from starcraft it might as well be called command & conquer / war star craft 2 =P..... i think sc2 is gonna be fun as hell but will be nothing like sc ; bw ... i for one am never quittin bw :-p
Shitload of People with money are gonna come and ruin it all just like KESPA is doing now. They are gonna create failure bullshit leagues and tournies that will totally screw up the community with hackers and random wtf shit all over the place.
The reason why the broodwar community owns is because we have a say in everything (except the korean stuff) but with SC2 and stuff we wont have ANY say in anything.
I really hope we keep the power we have as a community that we have in broodwar.
If I had been around this game for as long as someone like artosis then I think I would be dying to play this game but since I only got into sc progaming like a year ago...I really am glad that sc2 is taking so long, but I'm afraid there's not that much time left till it comes out
My thoughts exactly. SC1 will never be rivaled, its stood a test of time and still has room to evolve and change. I honestly believe SC2 will never live up to SC1. If I could parallel this it'd be like CS1.6 going to CS:Source and 1.6 seems is dead
I think the graphics are not an upgrade, but then I have always preferred 2D graphics. The attack animations look a lot longer so animation canceling will be more important and micro could be more difficult. That was what I hated about WC3 so much, units were less responsive then in SC.
I also feel like the pro-scene in SC has become so much more exciting then it was even a year ago: the rise of Flash, the introduction of creative uses for what were fringe units, nukes becoming more viable. So many awesome advances in an 11 year old game, don't kill it now.
SC is already balanced. I don't want to have to go through the growing pains of a new game. I did that with WC3 and it was really annoying when I had to learn new build orders every time a patch came out.
I totally understand, and to a certain extent that's how I feel as well. I guess that's why when people ask me if I'm all pumped up to play SC2 I always respond that it really depends on if it's a better game than BW...
After TSL2 it is all downhill. TSL2 is most likely the pinnacle of Starcraft 1 foreign scene. All the competitions and tournaments have been building up to the $10,000 match which will determine the one foreigner who will be crowned the king of Starcraft 1 After the tournament it is just a downward slide into SC2. Basically I don't want the TSL to end.
Yeah, exactly the same. Every day with playing/following scene of SC makes you discover new things so it's kinda weird thinking about abandoning a game that is evolving all the time
You people seem to treat sc2 like some sort of gigantic patch for sc:bw while in reality they are simply two separate games. Unless sc2 really lives up to everyones expectations and is good enough to completely replace sc as a competetive and long established e-sport it will just be css/cs1.6 happening rts style.
I agree. I really don't expect SC2 to measure up to BW in any way. I'm excited about the new campaign, and having another fun game to play, but it saddens me to think that this could even in some way shape or form replace BW.
On February 01 2010 08:10 RaGe wrote: yeah same. I'll like SC2, but I don't think SC lacks anything, I don't know why we need a different game.
It lacks graphics that is excepted by American culture. Every time some company advertises something, its always about how great it looks first, then its usefulness. people say sc had "bad graphics" because its all pixels and what not, and its merely impossible to get someone to play it now because its an old game :/
On February 01 2010 09:43 hifriend wrote: You people seem to treat sc2 like some sort of gigantic patch for sc:bw while in reality they are simply two separate games. Unless sc2 really lives up to everyones expectations and is good enough to completely replace sc as a competetive and long established e-sport it will just be css/cs1.6 happening rts style.
I feel the same way about SC2 coming out, but it comforts me to think that there will be years of balancing and tweaking before it can compare (if it ever can) to BW as an e-sport. Either SC2 will become a perfect game, or it will make its inferiority obvious during the long interlude of testing and patching...
I'm just a D noob but I'll keep playing BW as long as I consider it a better game. I only hope I'm making the right judgment so I'm not the only holdout, haha. And this thread tells me I'm not the only one.
i feel the same way, but its probably coming so we have to get ready to handle our emotions. this is how i look at it
a) we all think the game is better, and a change is natural (not going to happen, lol big slow goons firing lasers) b) the game is ok - the korean sponsors force the proteams to change c) warcraft4 - now we can play DOTA in space too :D
I think whats exciting about starcraft 2 for me, is what it'll do for the community. A brand new game that consumers are aware of, with shiny graphics and an already massive pro scene. Hopefully, it'll explode, and the culture that surrounds it will be bigger and better then the current broodwar community.
I don't want BW to be superseded. Having a game be as balanced as it is with such different sides, and have such room for improvement on the part of the players, I just don't see it happening again. It could of course, but it already happened once and we have that game
I think there is no way SC2 will destroy foregin hardcore community, there always will be players who will want to play BW. Propably the biggest question is how SC2 will affect SC Progaming - the one thing that binds us here, and makes everything so exciting and fresh every day. Honestly I'm expecting some serious fail from E-sports organizations in managing SC2, so before it can fully develop as a competetive game people could bounce from it's initial craze and swing back to BW. Or maybe KESPA vs Blizzard battle could keep BW alive in Korea so the games actually could coexist at Pro level for some time. (especially if we consider how Starcraft is still very popular despite so many other pro games like SuddenAttack Dungeon&Fighter, Tetris, Batoo, Tekken or what else.
On February 01 2010 10:34 RoieTRS wrote: Personally, I think sc2 will be absolute shit, and will just rob the bw scene of all its players, and then both communities will die.
On February 01 2010 11:17 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I've never been good at SC1 so I am excited for SC2, especially about making maps/mods for it.
I'm not good at SC1 by any means. But I dunno. There's just something about BW. I mean, the graphics to me are perfect, the balance is there, and the game keeps evolving, especially thanks to the maps that constantly come out. There's nothing I want changed, the only big boost SC2 is providing me with is more storyline. And even that could be done in the form of an expansion pack or something. There's just so much that I don't see the need to change. Part of this is selfish and just wanting BW to live forever, but I really don't see the need for SC2 right now.
i hope we get a sc1 mod in sc2 that'll be exactly like sc1 except in graphics. and then we get an sc1 mod to let us play with ppl who play that sc2 mod. or an sc2 mod that changes both gameplay and graphics to that of sc1.
totally agree. that's why I've made extra effort past 2 years to get alot more involved with sc1 and it's been great I've made alot of new friends and done alot of fun things! Hope sc2 is just as epic! (but there's a whole element of unknown coming with sc2 that nobody can predict...) it should be just as epic but sc1 is pretty f'n epic already.
After seeing Blizzard throw so much money at competitive WoW tournaments, I'm really interested in seeing what they do with a game that they have supposedly built around competition.
its in everyone's hand whether or not BW will stop being played with the release of StarCraft 2, noone said u cant play BW when SC 2 comes out. if SC2 doesnt meet our expectations we can all go back on BW and rock it there
i feel exactly the opposte...I can't wait for broodwar to die! Why? because I suck total donkey dick at brood war and I feel that sc2 will give me a chance to jump on the wave before it gets too far above me.
Hopefully, SC2 will live up to its hype and not cause a huge split between SC1 and SC2 supporters. This is exactly happened with the release of Brawl. It was an instant hit (and is still the most played Wii game) among casual players, but the hardcore, true players of Melee rejected it, calling it a terribad travesty and thus spawning a constant hate war between the two groups. On one side, you have the Brawl players telling the Melee players to stop crying and move on and on the other you have Melee players refusing to even acknowledge Brawl and trying to keep the scene alive...
On February 01 2010 10:28 diggurd wrote: i feel the same way, but its probably coming so we have to get ready to handle our emotions. this is how i look at it
a) we all think the game is better, and a change is natural (not going to happen, lol big slow goons firing lasers) b) the game is ok - the korean sponsors force the proteams to change c) warcraft4 - now we can play DOTA in space too :D
a is ok? b is dangerous... c is probably true
haha i also think c is going to be true. and i totally feel the same as everyone else here. does sc2 really have to come out?
but lets face it... sc is old and nearly every notable league and team has neglected it, from the start til the end. out of ignorance and simple mindedness (ITS ALL ABOUT THE LAZERZ, GUYS). we were lucky that we had wcg, and the very generous people of tsl. the only way to grow is change. broodwar isnt just a great game, it has also been around for all this time because the community has been and still is simply amazing. so i think if we just stick together and move with our hopes to sc2 together and dont let the "new guys" ruin it for us, it will be good. personally i dont want wc3 guys to tell me how to play sc and stuff like that, or that the sc2 community erodes into that flaming, cheating mob that the cstrike scene is. so lets just remember where WE came from.
But guys...don't you wanna know WHO'S THIS "GREATER POWER"? WHO IS DURAN REALLY WORKING FOR? WHERE ARE THE XEL'NAGA? WILL KERRIGAN AND RAYNOR STILL HAVE BABIES?
As far as people saying they want BW to end because they suck at it. If you have 50 apm in BW, you're going to suck at SC2 too. Might as well just try to improve and enjoy the game while it's here like I am while looking forward to blizzard nailing sc2.
On February 02 2010 01:27 ketomai wrote: As far as people saying they want BW to end because they suck at it. If you have 50 apm in BW, you're going to suck at SC2 too. Might as well just try to improve and enjoy the game while it's here like I am while looking forward to blizzard nailing sc2.
but, but, but MBS and automine will allow any noob to beat Jaedong! I swear!
To be honest, I dislike the whole "death" analogy. To me, StarCraft II is merely a new phase in StarCraft progaming and not the death of one scene and the start of another. Afterall, it`s preety much a given that a lot of the people involved with the BW scene are going to be involved with SC2 as well.
Anyway, a lot of the responses in this thread remind me of Lovecraft`s quote: "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." A lot of us have become greatly accustomed to Brood War and have gotten used to it`s various units, strategies and quirks. And quite a few have become so used to it that they perceive anything new that could potentially replace it with great reservation, if not outright hostility. In many ways, it is a natural and expected response.
However, while fear of the unknown can be a useful talent toi have, it also tends to make us blind to new opportunities for growth. And as much as we hate to admit it, StarCraft is in desperate need for new opportunities. This is particularly evident in Korea, the mecca of StarCraft. Even there where it is strongest, StarCraft is no longer what it used to be. StarCraft no longer dominates PC Bangs, viewership has dropped considerably and there are less people attending events (even when old legends are playing). Controversies revolving KeSPA have only made this situation worse. Overall, the scene is in need of revitalisation.
The only way to do that is for the StarCraft phenomenon to become international. However, Brood War cannot do this, since it has very much a niché appeal outside of Korea, even after the renaissance it has experienced due to SC2`s announcement. The fact that the game has been mostly mapped out, as Artosis put it, does not help either. Yes, there is still some innovation....but that innovation has become increasingly more subtle and rare and that cannot sustain a casual viewership that allowed the Brood War scene to run at it`s former pace. That is why StarCraft II represents a new opportunity...not only for former and existing StarCraft fans, but also for a brand new generation as well.
Overall, StarCraft II can very much be described as a newborn offspring. When a person comes into this world, we cannot know for certain what kind of life they will lead. They could end up being your average person for the rest of their days, they could reach great heights and make their mark in the annals of history or they can end up being a lot worse then ourselves and fail to utilise their talents. We just do not know. All we can do is nourish them, teach them, support them and hope that, once they are standing on their own two feet, they can utilise their potential to the fullest. So just like a parent`s greatest happiness is to see his offspring successfully walk in the great big world on their own, so it would be Brood War`s crowning achievement if StarCraft II managed to supercede it.
People in this thread like to use the word "death". But the truth is, Brood War will never truly die. Through great actions, men have been able to shed their mortal bodies and reach immortality by affecting us long after their demise. In much the same fashion, Brood War will forever exist in gaming history and, more importantly, in our hearts in minds. But everything must come to an end eventually....even Brood War. But when that day comes, I think all StarCraft fans (even those that are so reluctant at this point in time) would be at a much greater peace of mind if they knew that it had a successor , worthy of it`s name, carrying it`s spirit and continuing it`s legacy. Will that be StarCraft II? Noone can say for certain at this point. What we can do, however, is to help it, support it and hope for the best.
I had the same sentiments as the OP a couple months ago. Now, I think that BW can stick around once SC2 comes out. Warcraft 2 has managed to stay alive even though Warcraft 3 has been out for years. I think it entirely depends on the community of players. I will miss the scale that we currently have though.
On February 02 2010 03:30 Durak wrote: I had the same sentiments as the OP a couple months ago. Now, I think that BW can stick around once SC2 comes out. Warcraft 2 has managed to stay alive even though Warcraft 3 has been out for years. I think it entirely depends on the community of players. I will miss the scale that we currently have though.
wc2 managed to stay alive? with what, a few hundred players, 1/2 of them being russians?
On February 01 2010 10:34 RoieTRS wrote: Personally, I think sc2 will be absolute shit, and will just rob the bw scene of all its players, and then both communities will die.
On February 02 2010 03:30 Durak wrote: I had the same sentiments as the OP a couple months ago. Now, I think that BW can stick around once SC2 comes out. Warcraft 2 has managed to stay alive even though Warcraft 3 has been out for years. I think it entirely depends on the community of players. I will miss the scale that we currently have though.
wc2 managed to stay alive? with what, a few hundred players, 1/2 of them being russians?
There's still a group of "good" players who are able to play together on a server. My definition of "stay alive" is if there's good competition to play against.
EPT
