• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:02
CET 16:02
KST 00:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation5Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1197 users

Need more Protoss favored maps :(

Blogs > Leath
Post a Reply
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
December 10 2009 16:05 GMT
#1
I have a feeling most maps favor other races one way or the other, and the only reason I can win games is either because I am lucky, or 1a2a3a is easy to do.

Each week I find myself begging to find Longinus in the motw list, cuz then I can boos my points up a bit.

What other maps are GOOD for protoss?

Tau Cross: So so...
Pro: Easy to set up FE
Not too hard to flank Terran army
Zergs usually are afraid of 12 hatching due to cannon block.
Not hard to get the third base

Con: Very hard to get forth base
Terran and zerg can abuse that natural cliff much more than a P can
Zerg drops are devastating from the way your main is set up in relation to your nat/third
Zerg can flanks your bases from everywhere

Lost Temple:
Pro: Overall it is easy to control the map vs Zerg
Favors aggressive play, which I find to be good for p
Can cannon cliffs, but that works best vs others protoss..,

Con: Cliff on natural can allows terran/zerg drop
Terran can control that whole map in seconds
Some positions are very biased. 12 oclock probably the worse, opponent at 3 oclock can easily drop your cliff, shoot units leaving from ledge, and zerg can even third hatch at the min only and contain/lurker/sunke/spores.

Gaia
Pro: I think P has the upper hand vs Terran on this map.
Though terran can easily control three bases, and the cross vertical positions dont really favor protoss much, overall it is easy to flank and keep map control.

Con: Zerg map all the way. Drops, mass expo, etc. Worst thing, you cant FE in most positions cuz the nat is so large. Lings run by will be frustrating, and specially lurkers going behind the other ramp. Leave game immediately if you spawn at 6 o'clock. 12 oclcok is actually the only decent start position for PvZ.

I will keep writing later. Gotta go eat.
Please, if anyone knows what is a good protoss map besides Longinus, let me know. Please explain why too.

http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
December 10 2009 16:10 GMT
#2
any map that can macro is good for toss like

andromeda
colloseum
ultimatum
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 16:16:15
December 10 2009 16:15 GMT
#3
While we're on the subject of maps, I haven't played many games on the new maps :S
I'm always nervous when switching over to new maps, I dont feel comfortable when Im playing them :S
Oh well though, I'm sure we'll get comfortable this Christmas break :D
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
December 10 2009 16:27 GMT
#4
Well the problem is that the features which make a map nice for PvT usually make it nice for ZvP as well.
Seems like min-only 3rds are nice for PvZ though, so maybe try Match Point.
No I'm never serious.
stoned_rabbit
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States324 Posts
December 10 2009 16:33 GMT
#5
On December 11 2009 01:27 Nytefish wrote:
Well the problem is that the features which make a map nice for PvT usually make it nice for ZvP as well.
Seems like min-only 3rds are nice for PvZ though, so maybe try Match Point.


this.

btw 12hatch is better for you if you scout it. 12nex > 12hatch economically.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
December 10 2009 16:37 GMT
#6
Luna Luna Luna
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
December 10 2009 16:44 GMT
#7
Map imbalance isn't really an issue in lower level play. Go check the iccup map statistics if you want to see for yourself. Other than a few exceptions, most maps are 51-49 or 52-48%.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
December 10 2009 16:46 GMT
#8
guillotine!!!!
come on protoss players step it up
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 17:17:10
December 10 2009 17:13 GMT
#9
Katrina

Baekmagoji, at least for PvT

Heartbreak Ridge is a good map for a noob protoss like myself (I'm D-)
betaben
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
681 Posts
December 10 2009 17:29 GMT
#10
i've wondered stuff like this before; I've always thought it would be good to have a poll about what map features favour which sides in which matchups. like..
large centre:
PVT
P vote
T vote
PvZ
P vote
Z vote
etc..

then for the other ones, difficult to hold 3rd, ramp size, natural opening size, min only island in main etc..
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32087 Posts
December 10 2009 17:50 GMT
#11
A map that favors P in PvT is almost always against P in PvZ. Fact of life son
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
December 10 2009 17:58 GMT
#12
On December 11 2009 02:50 Hawk wrote:
A map that favors P in PvT is almost always against P in PvZ. Fact of life son

Hmm usually i think you are right but imo Luna is both P > Z and P > T

It is quite hard for a Z to get and defend a third gas on this map.
Oh and yea i know pro stats aren't that bad for T and Z vs P but that was before Bisu / Stork era, when P was quite weak.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Cu(oCo)
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Italy358 Posts
December 10 2009 18:27 GMT
#13
On December 11 2009 01:37 Boblion wrote:
Luna Luna Luna

Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-10 18:38:37
December 10 2009 18:37 GMT
#14
all maps except othello favor P in PvT, he's obviously talking about PvZ

+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, maybe rush hour isnt so P friendly either in PvT.
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
December 10 2009 21:15 GMT
#15
On December 11 2009 03:37 Catch]22 wrote:
all maps except othello favor P in PvT, he's obviously talking about PvZ

+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, maybe rush hour isnt so P friendly either in PvT.


Lost Temple, Python, Tau Cross, Othello (so so), HeartBreak Ridge, and Destination
out of the 'popular' maps seem to favor T over P. Though, these last two a lot of people will disagree, I find that the only reason Protoss tends to dominates on these two maps if because of proxy cheese rushes. I avoid cheesing, and I find that Destination soon becomes a nightmare, and HBR is mmm... i think it kind of breaks even... lots of recalls I guess, but it is often not too obvious.



Othello, Gaia, Python (in some positions), Tau Cross, HBR, Andromeda, Colosseum seem to favor Z over P. Sure, Colosseum can be a macro friendly map, and it usually it runs smoothly until you have to take your 4th base. I find Andromeda really encourages sair/reaver play, but I find that strategy to be extremely hard to pull.


Longinus is really the perfect map for protoss. The way the nat/third are set up are so easy to defend, and other races might have a hard time on the way protoss can charge at them. That double gas expo just tops it, because HTs are cheap once you have enough game, and once again it is not hard to secure those expansions.


On December 11 2009 01:44 sixghost wrote:
Map imbalance isn't really an issue in lower level play. Go check the iccup map statistics if you want to see for yourself. Other than a few exceptions, most maps are 51-49 or 52-48%.


I dont know about those statistics, because I dont know who is 'making' them.
I say they are not reliable for backing up any information. To me it just seems that based in those stats no maps favor terrans, because they always seem to have inferior winning percentages vs P and Z alike. I would guess it is because Terran is just a harder race to play in comparison to P or Z at lower level, but that doesnt make the map the biggest influence.

I am mid C level right now, and I feel the maps do influence me a lot. For instance, I just played a PvZ on Gaia where I was unfortunate to spawn at 6, and didnt want to be lame and leave.
Instead I tried a 1 base fast sair, by getting core before second pylon in reaction to 12 hatch.
Then zerg 3 hatch lurkers followed by drops and I had the hardest time defending my nat.
Just picture it... Lurkers can easily go behind those minerals, and 3 hatch zerg makes me need tons of cannons in front too. FE would put me in a horrible position as well. I cant even know how protoss should do in that place, except pray z makes a mistake.

In HBR I feel about the same. I do an FE then im worried Z might mine that minerals and backstab me, or break the temple, or drop lurkers there. Even mutas in the spot are so annoying. Then Z can easily take the corners of the map with lurkers for def, and easily drop cuz all expos are lined up for protoss. What is my advantage in HBR? What can I possibly do? I think I can only abuse the fact there is open space and a bunch of ramps where protoss can probably pick easy fights, but usually zerg can control well those ramps. o.o

Thanks for the replies
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
atm0sphere33
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada130 Posts
December 10 2009 22:01 GMT
#16
What MU? Python favors toss in PvT (but honestly, what map doesnt).

Outsider is great for protoss I find. PvZ it caters a lot to sair / reaver, and TvP arbiters tear us terrans a new asshole (more than they already do)
It may LOOK imbalanced but its not because blizard hates protoss.
Shauni
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
4077 Posts
December 10 2009 22:10 GMT
#17
What? Longinus is probably the most terran favored TvP map in recent history...
I'm taking whatever coverage I can get, because frankly, I'm busy working on this million dollar deal at my job. Early retirement is a good thing brotha man. - MessengerASL
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 10 2009 22:25 GMT
#18
lol. Longinus is sooo P favored
Neo Medusa and Destination are pretty P favored

Python is a good PvT map
and... HBR is a good P map
cw)minsean(ru
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
December 10 2009 22:51 GMT
#19
On December 11 2009 01:10 justiceknight wrote:
any map that can macro is good for toss like

andromeda
colloseum
ultimatum


This. Any big open maps will favor protoss in PvT anyways. In PvZ it's the other way around where protoss wants smaller, tighter maps because zergs needs space to flank and 1a2a3a4a5a
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
2025 Monthly #3: Day 1
ByuN vs ShoWTimELIVE!
RotterdaM787
TKL 217
SteadfastSC147
Rex133
IntoTheiNu 83
Liquipedia
OSC
11:30
Mid Season Playoffs
Cure vs SpiritLIVE!
Krystianer vs Percival
WardiTV574
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 787
TKL 217
Rex 133
SteadfastSC 130
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3557
Bisu 2912
Rain 2601
Hyuk 1494
Horang2 1048
Flash 554
Soma 510
Stork 377
Rush 278
Backho 145
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 123
Barracks 61
hero 42
sas.Sziky 30
sSak 23
Aegong 22
Killer 22
zelot 21
Rock 20
Terrorterran 11
Noble 6
Dota 2
Gorgc3032
qojqva1803
Dendi1041
BananaSlamJamma125
XcaliburYe114
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1193
Other Games
B2W.Neo987
hiko570
DeMusliM348
Hui .278
Fuzer 177
Sick170
Mew2King117
QueenE52
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 14
• Adnapsc2 7
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2430
• WagamamaTV423
League of Legends
• Nemesis3849
• TFBlade859
Upcoming Events
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
7h 58m
The PondCast
18h 58m
RSL Revival
18h 58m
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
20h 58m
WardiTV Korean Royale
20h 58m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 9h
RSL Revival
1d 18h
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
3 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
4 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.