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Who are the top 3 pro gamers?
1. Jaedong
Has 3 OSL's and 1 MSL
2. Bisu
Has 3 MSL's
3. Flash
Has 1 OSL
Jaedong has a definite strong early game. He can take down his opponent quickly and early and that is usually him at his best. His best opportunities for dominance over his opponent usually comes early to mid game because of his speed and ability to expand and mass. His weakness is overextended long games, where too much tech from the opponent can damage him. Very strong early to mid game.
Bisu has a very strong mid to late game. He is very good at stopping his opponent from expanding during mid game and is usually when he is at his best. Some weaknesses can be early to mid game for him where he is expanding and building up his army. Very strong mid to late game.
Flash is extremely strong mid to late or late to very late game. His tech is pretty much unstoppable during late game. However, there are not a lot of times where he actually gets the opportunity to play games so long especially vs zerg or toss, but there are some TVT matches where he has played an overtextended period and dominated. Very strong mid to late or late to very late game.
 
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really, that's jaedong's weakness?
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I think this is too simplistic. Jaedong is very very scary late game; flash has amazing early game defense. Its hard to find a weakspot for any of the three players to be honest.
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Braavos36375 Posts
You can't boil players down so simplistically, plus none of your assertions are true. All three players are strong no matter what game length it is.
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I feel like you took the strengths of the race into more play rather than the players themselves.
For instance, Bisu (known for his PvZ) plays protoss, which -coupled with forge FE (which skips early game) allows him to transition into the powerful mid to late game.
Flash likes turtle-ing, so if he is allowed to last into the late late game, of course he would be super powerful- since that is the point of his builds / gameplan.
No doubt those three are probably top three on an average day, but I would think there's more to it as fusion said.
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Two guys making their first posts here  Vero and slOosh, hi.
But really, your post lacks a good deal of insight. I seriously doubt that you can call JD weak late game, when he is pretty much the player with the best mechanics. And if you are referring to map-mined-out scenarios: If the game is not decided by then, zerg usually is at a disadvantage because terran and protoss can defend extremely cost-effective against zerg. That's not Jaedong's weakness, it's a weakness that zerg has in general.
Also, Flash's tech isn't so much unstoppable as it is unbreakable.
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Germany2762 Posts
what is very late game? the phase of a match including tier4 units?
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yeah those descriptions fall too generally on their respective races for them to be specific to these 3 players.
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they really dont have a weakness IMHO and u cant forget flash got GSI and gom3 even though their not OSL/MSL but their still important since their semi major tournaments
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I love guys who wants to boil everything down to the core and summarize stuff into a few sentences except I don't like that at all.
I don't know this is supposed to be an article or a debate or what you want just a weird thing to say since this is discussed all the time
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Hey for a first post this is definitely not terrible. It's completely wrong, however.
I really think the three of them are pretty close to 50:50 odds in just about any boX series regardless of how long the games go for. 
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This...doesn't work.
Jaedong likes to be aggressive, but that's more of his monstrous multitask allowing him to constantly probe for weaknesses. If he sees an opening, he'll take it. This works out for him more or less because he still doesn't miss a beat in his macro while doing so. He's the kind of player who can do things others can't simply because his mechanics are so much stronger.
If he fails in the late game, he fails for the same reason every other zerg does: Zerg as a race burns through resources more quickly than the other two races. T and P can play defensively, hanging on just barely off of less bases than they should have at that point. If they can hold out, then they can exploit a fatal timing in the late game where Z is finally running out of steam due to bases getting mined out and/or hunted down.
Jaedong's real weakness is his over reliance on his mechanics. Rarely he'll make horrifyingly bad decisions but still stand a fighting chance because of his control and macro...and end up losing. More often, he'll make questionable decisions, or make a round of drones too many and play it waaay too close to the edge.
Things like that are where Jaedong has problems. His management is top-notch...there's no way that his late game can be his weak point.
I like what Sloosh said about how you seem to be summing up weaknesses/strengths of the races in the players. This is funny, as it can be said that those three players pretty much sum up the absolute mechanical limit of their respective races. However, in any case, it's still not fair and inaccurate to leave it at just that.
Bisu's midgame is strong because every single protoss strategy aims for a strong midgame. Actually, most all strategies for any race aim for a strong midgame. Midgame is when you're the strongest. It's when you have the most mining bases, when timings are safest and most clear (early game timings may be more clear, but they're definitely not safer...), etc. Bisu isn't really an early game kind of player. He's very similar to Jaedong in that he is a very mechanical and safe more macro-oriented player. While he's not quite a Best, he's definitely not a Horang2.
Flash is an amazing player...he plays a ridiculously solid and safe, mechanical style. I haven't been keeping up with him lately, but before he rolled everyone over with his insane paradigm-shifting macro. I really need to watch more of his recent games...ugh.
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i think its wrong to say flash "weak point" is early game just because he shines in the later game
he doesnt rush a lot or do that stuff early game but he is still just as good in early all the way to late game imo
so in other words i dont like what u write at all cause its not in-depth at all and overall doesnt make sense tt
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Jaedong = Future Bonjwa
Bisu =
Flash = Macro Bot
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No way in hell can you call flash just a macro bot kenpachi, have you seen his unit control?
There was a fairly recent game of flash vs bisu (cant remember series) on HBR where bisu 12 nex, and flash did a push coupled with some of the most amazing micro (and bisu as well) i have ever seen.
Ok he lost, but that was because bisu is a dragoon control bot.
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FlaSh is not a macro bot, in fact he debuted as a player known for his micro. His army control and push management is what set him apart from other "macro players" who couldn't push to save their lives.
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These three wouldn't be the best today unless they all had solid gameplay from early to late game.
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Jaedong only loses to some kind of weird build that he's never seen before.
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On October 11 2009 08:55 Sigh wrote:
Jaedong only loses to some kind of weird build that he's never seen before.
He has lost plenty of straight up games. He has also lost many times because he made awful decisions and most of the other S-Class gamers are far smarter than he is.
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i came into this blog thinking the OP wouldn't put JD bisu and flash ._.
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On October 11 2009 08:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
FlaSh is not a macro bot, in fact he debuted as a player known for his micro. His army control and push management is what set him apart from other "macro players" who couldn't push to save their lives.
This is actually untrue. When Flash first appeared he was considered to be a macro bot, just look at old live reports or youtube videos too see what people thought of him - either a mindless macro bot or a cheeser.
This blog sux yo -.-
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On October 11 2009 09:17 Piy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 08:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
FlaSh is not a macro bot, in fact he debuted as a player known for his micro. His army control and push management is what set him apart from other "macro players" who couldn't push to save their lives. This is actually untrue. When Flash first appeared he was considered to be a macro bot, just look at old live reports or youtube videos too see what people thought of him - either a mindless macro bot or a cheeser. This blog sux yo -.-
thats not true at all lol
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On October 11 2009 09:17 Piy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 08:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
FlaSh is not a macro bot, in fact he debuted as a player known for his micro. His army control and push management is what set him apart from other "macro players" who couldn't push to save their lives. This is actually untrue. When Flash first appeared he was considered to be a macro bot, just look at old live reports or youtube videos too see what people thought of him - either a mindless macro bot or a cheeser. This blog sux yo -.-
Not even close.
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I heard commentators say a couple of times about how Flash would have lapses in unit control during late game TvZ.
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Better first post than mine I guess...
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Bisu's awesome early game; cheeses like a... pro.
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On October 11 2009 07:13 Hot_Bid wrote:
You can't boil players down so simplistically, plus none of your assertions are true. All three players are strong no matter what game length it is.
Well said.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
If choosing who were the best depending on golds alone, there wouldn't be any need for ELO rankings, KeSPA rankings and Power Ranks.
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Imo its more like this:
Jaedong usually wins before late game.
Bisu is protoss so he FE's most of the time, therefore being passive early game.
Flash is terran, so obviously his late game is strong due to 3/3 mech being the rapemachine that it is.
They are all amazing players.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
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Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash are all really good. The only real difference between them are the races they play and their title wins. Jaedong doesn't really have any weaknesses, except maybe for having little creative play (which he doesn't need because of his sick mechanics). Bisu sometimes plays sloppily with noob mistakes, but other than that, on any typical day his play is perfect. Flash is a turtling beast and is mostly likely only going to lose to early game aggression because nobody is going to beat him in the late game.
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On October 11 2009 08:55 Sigh wrote:
Jaedong only loses to some kind of weird build that he's never seen before.
People rarely try truly weird builds on Bisu or Flash except that period of like a week where Bisu lost 4 games in a row.
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Flash can turtle.
I don't like his style though, too safe that it looks boring already. Maybe if he adapted a Fantasy style TvP then things would get interesting, considering how scary his macro is.
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On October 11 2009 09:35 koreasilver wrote:
I heard commentators say a couple of times about how Flash would have lapses in unit control during late game TvZ.
Personally i consider his late game perfect as far as humans are concerned =p
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On October 13 2009 02:47 JFKWT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 09:35 koreasilver wrote:
I heard commentators say a couple of times about how Flash would have lapses in unit control during late game TvZ. Personally i consider his late game perfect as far as humans are concerned =p
Having lapses in unit control in late game TvZ is kinda inevitable for both sides due to the sheer power and fragility of the units involved with the exception of ultralisks, and I sometimes thinkthe commentators probably mentioned Flash's late game micro as his weakness because his macro obviously wasn't weak at all, as even if he lost units due to a flash of swarmed lurkerlings or something, his barracks were always churning out units. Of course his bio micro might not be as good as players like Casy or Hwasin, but those players are reknowned for their TvZ micro, so it's not really a fair comparison.
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On October 11 2009 08:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 08:55 Sigh wrote:
Jaedong only loses to some kind of weird build that he's never seen before. He has lost plenty of straight up games. He has also lost many times because he made awful decisions and most of the other S-Class gamers are far smarter than he is.
I don't think you can back that up. Jaedong's decision making is normally excellent, save a few times when he is faced with something he's never seen before. He wouldn't be the #1 player otherwise.
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EPT
