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Active: 29088 users

some thoughts on the new maps.

Blogs > SilverSkyLark
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SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-08 07:13:51
September 08 2009 07:11 GMT
#1
Well I'm hella bored and the internet is a bit slow over (and loading the bisu - lux match is taking forever) at school so I decided to take a peek at the new maps and analyze them. I'm not really doing this for contribution or whatever, I'm just writing it over here because I might need them in the near future. Open the spoilers, I also included the images of the maps inside. Any similarities to other posts are purely coincidental.

So first of is Asgard.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


The first thing I noticed is that this map is proxy prone. Due to the fact that there are many buildable spots near the main. In two player maps, players often scout after gas because they are sure where the other player is and therefore, would scout him immediately. However, there are also cases where players would tend to scour the map first to make sure that there are no proxies around. In order to play safe in this specific map, I came up with these lists of counter measures:
- scout the map at 8 or earlier then scout the enemy base.
- scout towards the enemy at 8, then proceed accordingly.

Of course the second one is a lot safer for practical reasons. Scouting at 8 would automatically tell you if there's a proxy somewhere, and due to the nature of an early scout, it would give roughly enough time to adjust accordingly. Most of the time a successfully defended proxy would give a decisive economic and sometimes technological advantage. But another problem easily arises, where could that proxy be? Killing the tree would be most effective, but in a map like this where you can plant that tree anywhere in this map. Mind games would be very effective on a map like this because one can just make his scout appear anywhere, giving an impression to the other player that there's a proxy somewhere. Aside from mind games, tactical positioning of units to gain control of the middle ridge might be considered essential. Any player seeking to gain map control should first establish control on one side of the cliffs and force the opposition to lift the control on his side. This is possible because there are two immediate paths to leading to that cliff so a well timed two sided attack would prove to be useful. The long path however could be take for granted and in the first place, can be easily blocked.

Hmm, here's also an analysis of the map based on match ups. I won't discuss Mirrors.:

PvZ
- PvZ will be hard on the Protoss since there are two paths to his main. Ling all ins and hydra breaks will be tough to defend. Though defending is feasible, in can leave the Protoss economy in shambles spending on front line cannons that will not be able to defend against a 2 hatch muta followup. A defensive style might be necessary to surivive PvZ.
- Sair reaver might be useful I think. Sit on 3 bases with cannons and fly around. The problem is taking a sneaky third. Another problem is being able to fly around safely, a lot of open space between the mains spell trouble to a developing sair reaver tactic. I think we'll just have to see how PvZ plays out on this map.

ZvT
- Terrans would have a pretty good time placing proxies, but they should be careful about a ling all in counter to their main.
- Passing through the main ridge is also risky since mutalisks can just spell death for MnM forces inside. scanning can also be useful though.
- The two inner paths to the cliffs can lead to flanks to the ridge or to the cliffs themselves. The outer ridges can lead to counter flanks or even help flank the natural if needed.

TvP
- Due to the nature of the map, Terrans should play extra careful here, 2 gate proxies might be anywhere but if they manage to scout the empty main on time, the game is not over. However, if the Terran gets the advantage after defending the proxy but fails to capitalize on it, then the game is still lost.
- This nature of the map would also allow Terrans to proxy a hidden starport or a second factory somewhere else and pull of some nice plays. Vultures wreaking havoc is also viable since most of the expansions are prone to cliffing from tanks or vultures and their positions can be easily defended with mines to delay dragoons and therefore, delay mining time.
- This map is very fun since it promotes the Fantasy style of Playing TvP, wreaking havoc anywhere.


Match Point

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


It can be seen that the naturals have 2 paths, it also resembles the layout of Geometry and BlueStorm but the fact remains that there are two ways to the middle:
- via the low ground (brown wooden path)
- via the high ground (the silver-white thinggy)
I won't repeat my discussion about proxies that were postulated from Asgard. Battles would most likely take in the middle of the map and here is where the high path from the higher ground comes into play. Most of the battles might take place in the middle so anyone that can secure the access from their higher grounds have the edge. It's pretty much like bluestorm but the flanking part is a bit easier I think, because if the player is occupied with the mid ground battle, the high ground can be taken for granted and be the reason for defeat. Matchups won't be discussed. It might prove a bit challenging to do a forge cannon wallin though, because the space between the mineral patch and the nearest unbuildable terrain might be a bit too wide.

I have a question though. Is it possible to build a pylon from the 12/6 expansions so close to the wall that you can build a gateway from the other side?


Moon Glaive
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


They really want to give Protoss a hard time.

Anyway, at first glance, the center will prove useful to retain map control and an easy access to the expansions. Battles for center control should prove difficult since during that battle, a lot of units can just go around the map by passing them to the expansion after the natural and then redirecting them to the center. Though only a handful of units can pass through, it can still tip the scales at some cases. Again, dynamic vulture raids, zealot ambushes and ling runbys will test the players mental limits, the first one that gets irritated and loses his nerve, loses the game.

Air distance from the 4 to 7 main is also short, they should fix that.


Roadrunner
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


My eyes are hurting from just trying to concentrate which bridge gets me to what place.

Hmm, I think the shortest scouting paths are via the outside half ring paths with an expo. Oh look, all expos have gas. Anyway, securing the wide bridges would prove essential to map control. (I really need paint to illustrate some useful regions but I'm too lazy.) The bridges at the dead middle would be a lot useful for gaining and retaining map control, jeez, I wouldn't want to watch TvTs in this map.... But of course the side half rings would again prove useful to divert attention and may be useful to do crippling flanks, but splitting the map could only happen if the spawn points are 2 and 7.

The other cross position (4 and 11) would be a different thing. For example you land at 4, it is possible to detour from the 6 half ring, to the 9 half ring and backstab. It is a long detour that will cripple the map control of your opponent but if you want a shorcut, you can take the 3 half ring. The problem with taking the shortcut is you will have to make do as your units are "filtered" within the 2 small bridges. On the other hand, the big bridges that are given to you via the long cut can immediately make you units flow through the middle for the flank.


Adjacent positions would be taken individually since they showed me something of great interest.

Take for example 7 and 11. (this will also apply to 2 and 5)
7 has his natural closer to the middle and also closer to the half ring shortcut. 7 would then have an easy time reinforcing units and maybe cut reinforcements from 11 by taking the shortcut. If 11 loses his control at the center, then 7 can just perfectly seal him off by sealing the 12 half ring shortcut. The 2 and 5 spawn points would also have this "positional imbalance" (which follows the imbalance for reaver drops I think). But note that if 11 and 5 manage to secure the bridges and leave a force dedicated to pushing via the half ring short cut, then the game will be fun.

Oh look the 2 vs 11 and the 5 vs 7 spawn points have the same imbalance - whoever has the natural closer to the bridges can ride that advantage to win.

*too lazy to analyze matchups, but they look a whole lot dynamic since reinforcing the units guarding the bridges is greatly affected by macro*


Judgment Day
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This looks like a very dynamic 4 player map. Not much space is available so flanking units are basically free to roam around and step on mines or something. Adjacent spawn points at top and bottom would have a little time to flank since the immediate middle path is blocked. Adjacent spawn points at the sides wouldn't have this problem though.


Acro
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Looks like a macro map that opens the possibility of a one base play. I think we should anticipate andromeda-esque macro battles on this one..


and the 11 main ticks me off, go figure


Tornado
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This looks like a simplified version of roadrunner. Cross position battles should be interesting because of how the players can flank in 2 ways:
- taking the immediate split path from the natural to the middle to flank
or
- taking the split path to the other natural and taking the split path of that natural to get to the middle. (well actually if you take that route, you can go straight to the opponents natural)
I'll add details later.



Silver Wings
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Nothing much to say about this map. It's easily a 3 base macro map, but note that losing the third base will result to catastrophe because it will lead to another entrance to the natural. If a contain is successfully executed, cutting reinforcements by ferrying units between the 3rd base and the natural is very easy.


Well, I got lazy towards the end but I hope that this will get you to think of the maps as well.

I'm not really doing this for the sake of contributing something, I'm just bored and analyzing these maps took me 4 hours. Well if you want to use these analysis it's ok. I'll add more content and put more images later...

*****
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Licmyobelisk
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines3682 Posts
September 08 2009 08:53 GMT
#2
where can we download this?
I don't think I've ever wished my opponent good luck prior to a game. When I play, I play to win. I hope every opponent I ever have is cursed with fucking terrible luck. I hope they're stuck playing underneath a stepladder with a black cat in attendance a
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-08 09:07:14
September 08 2009 08:58 GMT
#3
^^DL here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100790

SilverSkyLark wrote:
I have a question though. Is it possible to build a pylon from the 12/6 expansions so close to the wall that you can build a gateway from the other side?

I just tested it and it works.

HOWEVER:
-You can build only 1 gate
-If a zealot races from a gate proxied from there against a zealot from an in base gateway(started a little behind main choke) the proxy zealot arrives less than a screen length ahead compared to the inbase gate.

It would be less effective than 2 gating in base, since pylon would be wayyy misplaced for the second gate.

It would be better off for hiding tech or something, but I think it would really just be a poorer choice when compared to a real out of base proxy or just normal placement

Roadrunner:
One thing that wasn't mention in the OP is that the distances between bases are extraordinarily far, especially for land units. The rush distance is very huge, and there isn't a huge different between cross and close positions in how long it takes to get there. I tested with probes running around the map -- it takes forever to get anywhere. I don't think aggressive builds will work very well here, unless they are seeking to establish map control via the bridges. An early kill shouldn't be possible unless using a proxy.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
September 08 2009 10:14 GMT
#4
I dont like a single one of the new maps, doesnt look interesting to play. + Show Spoiler +
IMO you can find much better on broodwarmaps.net cause they are more fun to play.
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28623 Posts
September 08 2009 11:34 GMT
#5
rofl acro looks like the best map for carrier-rushing since peaks - if not evenb etter.
Moderator
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 08 2009 11:53 GMT
#6
On September 08 2009 17:58 Fontong wrote:
^^DL here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100790

Show nested quote +
SilverSkyLark wrote:
I have a question though. Is it possible to build a pylon from the 12/6 expansions so close to the wall that you can build a gateway from the other side?

I just tested it and it works.

HOWEVER:
-You can build only 1 gate
-If a zealot races from a gate proxied from there against a zealot from an in base gateway(started a little behind main choke) the proxy zealot arrives less than a screen length ahead compared to the inbase gate.

It would be less effective than 2 gating in base, since pylon would be wayyy misplaced for the second gate.

It would be better off for hiding tech or something, but I think it would really just be a poorer choice when compared to a real out of base proxy or just normal placement

Roadrunner:
One thing that wasn't mention in the OP is that the distances between bases are extraordinarily far, especially for land units. The rush distance is very huge, and there isn't a huge different between cross and close positions in how long it takes to get there. I tested with probes running around the map -- it takes forever to get anywhere. I don't think aggressive builds will work very well here, unless they are seeking to establish map control via the bridges. An early kill shouldn't be possible unless using a proxy.


Oooohhh....yeah..that made 12 nex/14 cc/12 hatch more viable because they're pretty much safe.

thanks for the insights - I'll add then to the OP as well as some paint edited pics of the maps for illustration.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
September 08 2009 17:33 GMT
#7
Those maps hurt my head, they aren't very pretty to look at (apart from Tornado)
I hope to see some interesting play in the future ^^
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
September 08 2009 18:27 GMT
#8
thanks for taking your time to do this! interesting.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66155 Posts
September 08 2009 19:10 GMT
#9
well you might have to edit your post since all the maps are undergoing some edit lol

great read though, your thoughts are similar to mine
POGGERS
Pawsom
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States928 Posts
September 08 2009 19:17 GMT
#10
Hey thanks a ton for posting this. I couldn't find them anywhere lol.
Crisis_
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States165 Posts
September 08 2009 19:54 GMT
#11
Great thread and analysis. I wanted to see the images of the maps forever, but couldn't find them anywhere haha
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 09 2009 04:25 GMT
#12
dang its hard to keep up with the changes they put on the maps....
maybe I'll go update these on friday or saturday + images..

oh, did they release the revised maps yet? Because if they didn't, I'm stuck with these...:D
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
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