Okay. So i just had this infuriating conversation with my ex-girlfriend
Basically, she, after abusing nearly every possible sort of psychoactive drug with me, now says that she "looks down" on drugs and drug users.
She called me to say happy birthday and we got into this long drawn out argument about my drug use, and eventually she said "Why is that (psychoactive culture overall) important to you."
So in a long, philosophically drawn out way, here is what i explained to her:
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
The fact is that the ability to change how you think, feel, see, touch, smell, and hear things holds amazing value for so many people around the world. Be it a struggling artist or a person driven to the brink of suicide by depression, psychoactives have an incredibly ability to inspire and cause great revelation. Culturally, they have the ability to create entire new ways of thinking which are (once again, arguably) improved from those we create in our own logical ways.
Although it sounds rather egotistical, i've always considered myself pretty intelligent. I have a nearly photogenic memory and so bits and pieces of information have been my life for as long as i could remember. When i was 12 and i discovered Marijuana, it changed things in an amazing way for me. I used to be bored and in contempt of a lot of the things in life, and i felt that i was superior to them. However a new way of thinking showed me that there were so many other things in life that seemed to be right for me, and that i hadn't seen them before. Marijuana started it all, and after that i was on the internet constantly (keep in mind this was 1999, 18.8kbps connection ftw) researching everything i could. Before i was 18, i'd tried things most seasoned drug veterans hadn't. I'd shot up heroin in a back alley in Seattle. I'd bought PCP at the high class gated community of Semiahmoo. Not only were psychoactives an integral part of my beliefs, but they were also some of the strongest experiences of my life.
In my quest for self exploration, i've discovered a lot of things about myself and the world. After i graduated from highschool, my father called and offered to fly me back to Croatia to live with him for awhile (a place i vaguely remembered, having not lived there since before primary school). My old self would have said no, and would have stuck with what was concrete. However, once again, psychoactives had tought me that different things were often far better.
Because of moving here, i've created my career, nearly graduated from college, found the woman who will hopefully be my wife, and created more memories and good times than i could possibly have imagined.
I'm more knowledgeable in the subject of "Drugs" than any other dealer i have ever met, American or Croat. I've based a lot of my life around the philosophical and scientific exploration of psychoactives and how they effect us both on a micro and macro level. A lot of the time i feel like a walking, talking Erowid. All these experiences, all these memories, and so many of my values, all stem from one group of chemicals which i can't even begin to classify. In my "journeys", i've discovered that there is even an entire subculture of people exactly like me, who share the same beliefs. They live just beneath the surface, underneath the casual halo=playing brosefs who party with a 40 and act hardcore because they tried shrooms once. They are the mild mannered psychoactive super heroes, and there are more of them than you think.
Consider that all of this is in my head, constantly, as a part of my life which could as easily be seperated from me as my heart or soul.
I agree that its saddening how many people look down upon drug use. Usually because of misinformation or just sheer ignorance Too many people think that using = abusing. There can be amazing things in moderation people!
After you gave this explanation to her, what was her reaction? Also, you attribute many of your experiences to the drugs, do you think you would have had positive experiences and memories otherwise? Not the same ones, but different ones?
"Be it a struggling artist or a person driven to the brink of suicide by depression, psychoactives have an incredibly ability to inspire and cause great revelation."
On the flip side, do you not think that drugs have taken people into depression or suicide as well?
I'm not passing judgement, I'm just wondering about the other side of the coin.
On September 01 2009 11:03 ghermination wrote: Mushrooms wrote the Bible.
Stopped after that.
1. There is proof that Judaistic scholars who are thought to have written the bible at least had the means to use mushrooms, considering how many of them grow in the area, and there is evidence that they did use them.
2. Mushrooms were viewed, culturally, at the time, as something that aided in meditation, and a lot of other works were composed using mushrooms and other "spiritual aids" at that time period.
A bias is a bad thing to bring with you to the internet. If you ask me to provide sources i will, but i'm too lazy to google them up atm.
On September 01 2009 11:03 ghermination wrote: Mushrooms wrote the Bible.
Stopped after that.
lol pretty much me too, where do you get this from?
edit- well that is a pretty big speculation, like all things to do with ancient times or religion. You can't just state it as a fact like you did. For all we know Jesus never even existed.
On September 01 2009 11:29 Manifesto7 wrote: "nearly photogenic memory"
I have a nearly photogenic face.
After you gave this explanation to her, what was her reaction? Also, you attribute many of your experiences to the drugs, do you think you would have had positive experiences and memories otherwise? Not the same ones, but different ones?
"Be it a struggling artist or a person driven to the brink of suicide by depression, psychoactives have an incredibly ability to inspire and cause great revelation."
On the flip side, do you not think that drugs have taken people into depression or suicide as well?
I'm not passing judgement, I'm just wondering about the other side of the coin.
Lol that was a good typo =x
I assume that i would have had good memories had i the means to seek them out, but i believe that drugs gave me the ability to do so. Therefore, without drugs, i wouldn't have created very many positive memories sitting at home being all angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else was.
Yes, i do believe that people have been driven to depression and suicide by psychoactives, just as they have been by midterms, marriage, poker, video games, work, and just about anything else you can possibly think of.
On September 01 2009 11:29 Manifesto7 wrote: "nearly photogenic memory"
I have a nearly photogenic face.
After you gave this explanation to her, what was her reaction? Also, you attribute many of your experiences to the drugs, do you think you would have had positive experiences and memories otherwise? Not the same ones, but different ones?
"Be it a struggling artist or a person driven to the brink of suicide by depression, psychoactives have an incredibly ability to inspire and cause great revelation."
On the flip side, do you not think that drugs have taken people into depression or suicide as well?
I'm not passing judgement, I'm just wondering about the other side of the coin.
Lol that was a good typo =x
I assume that i would have had good memories had i the means to seek them out, but i believe that drugs gave me the ability to do so. Therefore, without drugs, i wouldn't have created very many positive memories sitting at home being all angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else was.
Yes, i do believe that people have been driven to depression and suicide by psychoactives, just as they have been by midterms, marriage, poker, video games, work, and just about anything else you can possibly think of.
On September 01 2009 11:03 ghermination wrote: Mushrooms wrote the Bible.
Stopped after that.
lol pretty much me too, where do you get this from?
edit- well that is a pretty big speculation, like all things to do with ancient times or religion. You can't just state it as a fact like you did. For all we know Jesus never even existed.
Refer to my above post. I was posting that assuming that people would at least have knowledge of the evidence i was referencing.
I don't Really have a problem with people and their drugs but suggesting psychoactive drugs are going to change cultures in good ways if everyone started taking them is a bit ridiculous. The reason I think this is because if people start taking them en masse just to escape from any of their problems or stress, they really won't grow as human beings since I would say it usually takes conflict to grow. A land of stagnant minds caught up in pretty colors and altered perceptions won't be productive or efficient. Also, if something became so widespread and popular don't even try to bullshit anyone saying "Well people wouldn't take them during work hours, they'd be serious then." because we all know that wouldn't be true. I don't need my construction workers and crane operators tripping on LSD while they're supposed to be working.
I also have a question. Why/what is the appeal of changing your personality, living in a different world, not being you, etc.? I do not take or use any drugs whatsoever so I'm obviously not an expert and take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I just don't see what the point is other than to escape from how you're currently feeling or your life situation that you're in. Yes, many people have fucked up lives and serious problems, but not the majority of drug users. It just seems like pussying out to me. I don't need to get high just to live with myself.
Yes people do it for fun or whatever but it still seems like a waste of time and money.
EDIT:
sitting at home being all angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else was.
On September 01 2009 11:35 CharlieMurphy wrote: Well I disagree 100% with your mushroom theory and raise you aliens wrote it theory. Now what?
My answer is simple: Jews did WTC.
On September 01 2009 11:34 Koiru wrote: I don't Really have a problem with people and their drugs but suggesting psychoactive drugs are going to change cultures in good ways if everyone started taking them is a bit ridiculous. The reason I think this is because if people start taking them en masse just to escape from any of their problems or stress, they really won't grow as human beings since I would say it usually takes conflict to grow. A land of stagnant minds caught up in pretty colors and altered perceptions won't be productive or efficient. Also, if something became so widespread and popular don't even try to bullshit anyone saying "Well people wouldn't take them during work hours, they'd be serious then." because we all know that wouldn't be true. I don't need my construction workers and crane operators tripping on LSD while they're supposed to be working.
I also have a question. Why/what is the appeal of changing your personality, living in a different world, not being you, etc.? I do not take or use any drugs whatsoever so I'm obviously not an expert and take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I just don't see what the point is other than to escape from how you're currently feeling or your life situation that you're in. Yes, many people have fucked up lives and serious problems, but not the majority of drug users. It just seems like pussying out to me. I don't need to get high just to live with myself.
Yes people do it for fun or whatever but it still seems like a waste of time and money.
sitting at home being all angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else was.
isn't this what's called "being a teenager"??
Escapism is a very real problem today. People use all sorts of things to escape from their problems, and it is often condoned in the media. Every time you hear of "stress relief" that is basically someone escaping from their problem. I'm not attacking your semantics, but i think your point is invalid because everyone does it with other things anyway.
As for your second point, i think you are applying our current non-tolerant culture to my ideals. For example, in my perfect culture, where psychoactives are legal, peoples responsibilities will be seperate from their psychoactive use. For example, you have to go to a special dispensary to obtain your psychoactive. These will somehow have an open line of communication with your employer and while preserving the rest of your privacy, this system will work to stop people from coming to the job impaired. For example, if you buy some LSD at 10 AM, you will have to use a special government issued card. The dispensary will record your card number and then send a notice to your work that you bought it at that time. Your employer is then obligated to ask you if you're under the influence of the LSD, and if you are there are consequences (i.e. you get fired).
A lot of things would be like this. Obviously just legalizing everything right nwo wouldn't work, BUT, with adaptations it wouldn't.
no but I am serious, There is countless scenarios and stories and translations that = to aliens. Biggest examples being the moving star in bethlehem and Elijah the prophet/saint who was abducted by chariots of fire from the heavens in a whirlwind. Also tons of artworks of UFOs including egyptian and aztec cultures as well.
Some drugs have given people some very negative experiences. I think that's part of the reason they're taboo, a lot of people have trouble differentiating between bad drugs and good drugs.
Also you have to remember that opium was a social problem back in the days.
There are quite a few reasons I don't do drugs. The main one though is $$$
Re: CharlieMurphy There are countless stories that link jews to the WTC attacks. Such as the phone calls that Jews got telling them to stay home blah blah blah
If you're going to say something like that, post a link at least lol
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
Your defense for using drugs is that if you didn't use them your life would be different O_o? I would agree with this statement, but I don't see how it serves as a defense (not to imply that you necessarily need a defense.)
I don't really have anything against these types of drug users, because I, myself am a believer in the clause "Reality is what's in your head," but I would assume that any drug that affects your way of thinking in this way has at least some chronic side-effects (obviously insignificant without overuse, but still existent.) So I personally probably won't take them ever.
Plus you never know which way these things are gonna swing your personality, so it seems like a serious risk if you take them for this purpose.
I would trust myself to turn my life/personality/views when I'm sober a lot more so than when I'm under the effect of one of these things, and to be honest I just don't see a plausible explanation for someone wanting to do it the other way around.
On September 01 2009 11:40 CharlieMurphy wrote: no but I am serious, There is countless scenarios and stories and translations that = to aliens. Biggest examples being the moving star in bethlehem and Elijah the prophet/saint who was abducted by chariots of fire from the heavens in a whirlwind. Also tons of artworks of UFOs including egyptian and aztec cultures as well.
I was also being semi-serious, while i agree that Aliens and Jews and Mushrooms are all perfectly acceptable explanations for something we know nothing about, in this case i was using my opinion and belief that, via the evidence i've seen, the bible was writted by people who were at least inspired by mushrooms.
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
Your defense for using drugs is that if you didn't use them your life would be different O_o? I would agree with this statement, but I don't see how it serves as a defense (not to imply that you necessarily need a defense.)
I don't really have anything against these types of drug users, because I, myself am a believer in the clause "Reality is what's in your head," but I would assume that any drug that affects your way of thinking in this way has at least some chronic side-effects (obviously insignificant without overuse, but still existent.) So I personally probably won't take them ever.
Plus you never know which way these things are gonna swing your personality, so it seems like a serious risk if you take them for this purpose.
I would trust myself to turn my life/personality/views when I'm sober a lot more so than when I'm under the effect of one of these things, and to be honest I just don't see a plausible explanation for someone wanting to do it the other way around.
Yes, its probably a very personal thing. However i definitely know how much these things have changed my life. Also a lot of the negative side effects are greatly exaggerated. For example, remember that whole "one joint = 20 cigarettes" bullshit, when now its being shown that marijuana is an effective preventative to cancer? Admittedly PCP would be a bad example to use because people DO go crazy on it and HAVE done things (such as eating their sons eyes) but i've done pcp myself at least 7-10 times, and with a good amount of other people, and most of the time we just kind of sat there and tripped balls, while a few times we wandered around and had completely nonsensical conversations. Remember that PCP is like super-dxm, and basically when some people who were already unstable reach the state equal to "plateau sigma" that can be reached on DXM, they will snap. I think it takes a certain degree of mental instability to snap and enter psychosis on PCP, just as i think it would take a certain amount of instability for any drug to trigger latent psychological disorders within you.
On September 01 2009 11:34 Koiru wrote: I don't Really have a problem with people and their drugs but suggesting psychoactive drugs are going to change cultures in good ways if everyone started taking them is a bit ridiculous. The reason I think this is because if people start taking them en masse just to escape from any of their problems or stress, they really won't grow as human beings since I would say it usually takes conflict to grow. Aug users. It just seems like pussying out to me. I don't need to get high just to live with myself.
Yes people do it for fun or whatever but it still seems like a waste of time and money.
Every time I hear a doomsday theory I scoff. People look at drug addicts that sacrifice their lives to the drug and act like that's the standard when it really really isn't. It's the most VISIBLE and hence people associate that with drug use.
There is something called moderation that while some people lack is a boon for people that just like to chill every once in a while
I'm not a big drug user, I've only really done weed, XtC, and LSD but I have enough self control not to do those every freaking day. In fact it's more of a once every three months type of thing because... well it's fun.
People look down on me as if I'm that guy on the street corner playing tricks for some crack. It's just not the same thing.
sitting at home being all angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else was.
isn't this what's called "being a teenager"??
No it's called being angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else is. Teenagers as a whole are more diverse then that.
On September 01 2009 11:53 Jayme wrote: No it's called being angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else is. Teenagers as a whole are more diverse then that.
When i first read that, i checked your profile to see if you were 13-16, and instead found a picture which i will be staring at the next time i trip on acid.
On September 01 2009 11:53 Jayme wrote: No it's called being angsty and thinking about how stupid everyone else is. Teenagers as a whole are more diverse then that.
When i first read that, i checked your profile to see if you were 13-16, and instead found a picture which i will be staring at the next time i trip on acid.
Nice blog ghermination, I'm surprised at how little people know about drugs yet don't hesitate to judge.
imo the drugs that you talked about can help to expand a persons consciousness and give them a different outlook on life.
People seem confused by media, thinking that the only time people use or try drugs is to "escape reality" or feel good. In fact me and plenty of others are genuinely curious and want to be educated and expand our consciousness.
Of course drugs can be abused, but so can everything else.
I think perception altering drugs can be great for personality development. Often when somebody uses them he realizes that what he sees is not necessarily what is and that his life (or humanity in general) Is meaningful only to humanity(that everything is based off of perspective). They might become less spiteful/arrogant and focus on what's important in their universe and not the universe itself.
On September 01 2009 11:47 Kiarip wrote: ignoring this paragraph:
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
Your defense for using drugs is that if you didn't use them your life would be different O_o? I would agree with this statement, but I don't see how it serves as a defense (not to imply that you necessarily need a defense.)
I don't really have anything against these types of drug users, because I, myself am a believer in the clause "Reality is what's in your head," but I would assume that any drug that affects your way of thinking in this way has at least some chronic side-effects (obviously insignificant without overuse, but still existent.) So I personally probably won't take them ever.
Plus you never know which way these things are gonna swing your personality, so it seems like a serious risk if you take them for this purpose.
I would trust myself to turn my life/personality/views when I'm sober a lot more so than when I'm under the effect of one of these things, and to be honest I just don't see a plausible explanation for someone wanting to do it the other way around.
Yes, its probably a very personal thing. However i definitely know how much these things have changed my life. Also a lot of the negative side effects are greatly exaggerated. For example, remember that whole "one joint = 20 cigarettes" bullshit, when now its being shown that marijuana is an effective preventative to cancer? Admittedly PCP would be a bad example to use because people DO go crazy on it and HAVE done things (such as eating their sons eyes) but i've done pcp myself at least 7-10 times, and with a good amount of other people, and most of the time we just kind of sat there and tripped balls. I think it takes a certain degree of mental instability to snap and enter psychosis on PCP, just as i think it would take a certain amount of instability for any drug to trigger latent psychological disorders within you.
Ok, but doesn't it trigger a relatively drastic change in chemical balance in your brain during the reaction, which isn't something that it was originally designed (evolved) for, and so although it's quite possible that the risks aren't extremely high and probably much lower than advertised, since our current understanding of the nervous system is still pretty vague, these changes in chemical balance are probably dangerous (admittedly also possibly beneficial) for a lot more reasons than what is actually known about.
I just don't understand the logic behind taking some drug, the literal effect of which despite your claims you probably understand mostly/only in a non-quantifiable manner for a reason such as having a "life-changing experience," when the human mind is more than capable of this in it's default state without foreign substances.
I find the idea of surgeon general warnings/laws being 'propaganda' pretty drat absurd. To what end? I understand some lobby groups exaggerate the effects of drugs (on both sides), but that is not government.
I will say that human culture is rarely without drug culture. Just look how rampant and acceptable alcohol is. It's really hard to contain. Many people take caffeine (a psychoactive drug), nearly every day. Our laws are a reflection of our culture, not some little man in a suit's selfish ambitions. Most people with a vote believe (at least some) drugs are harmful overall to society. So that's what you get.
Honestly, I don't like drugs. I think messing with your brain chemistry is risky and unnecessary. But it's a personal choice I make for myself. I can't decide for anyone else, and neither can the government.
Enjoy your birthday. Don't get too wrapped up in what your dumbass ex has to say (honestly who calls someone just to get in an argument with them hahahaa)
On September 01 2009 11:34 Koiru wrote: I don't Really have a problem with people and their drugs but suggesting psychoactive drugs are going to change cultures in good ways if everyone started taking them is a bit ridiculous.
Your post kinda makes me angry because its so full of negative assumptions, but like you said you dont know a thing about drugs so I'll try to share some insights.
The reason I think this is because if people start taking them en masse just to escape from any of their problems or stress, they really won't grow as human beings since I would say it usually takes conflict to grow. A land of stagnant minds caught up in pretty colors and altered perceptions won't be productive or efficient.
Not every drug has the same effect of putting you in some fairytale land. There's a reason why some people try LSD but wont ever go near heroin, etc. Look at it this way: the world around us is completely processed through our mind. Everything you see, hear, feel, etc is filtered through your gray mass. So why isnt it interesting to induce a difference in how you perceive things? Hormones do it to us all the time. The weather does it to us. Food does it to us. Why not with a drug-experience? Assuming that everyone would constantly be taking drugs is also complete bogus. The fear of addiction is something that people have been putting in your mind since you've been little. If you know what you are getting into, have self control and make sure you do not abuse or do it too much, addiction is basically impossible. Every drug is of course different in this effect (I wouldnt take meth because of how addicting this is). But its not like everyone who enjoys a beer from time to time is a goddamn alcoholic.
Also, if something became so widespread and popular don't even try to bullshit anyone saying "Well people wouldn't take them during work hours, they'd be serious then." because we all know that wouldn't be true. I don't need my construction workers and crane operators tripping on LSD while they're supposed to be working.
Read my previous statement. The LSD statement was probably kind of a joke. But still. All you're saying shows how you know absolutely nothing about what these things do and how people handle them. And again, do you see people boozing all day during work or what?
I also have a question. Why/what is the appeal of changing your personality, living in a different world, not being you, etc.? I do not take or use any drugs whatsoever so I'm obviously not an expert and take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I just don't see what the point is other than to escape from how you're currently feeling or your life situation that you're in. Yes, many people have fucked up lives and serious problems, but not the majority of drug users. It just seems like pussying out to me. I don't need to get high just to live with myself.
Actually many drugs can induce strong spiritual trips and insights into one's psyche. Saying people who use drugs must have fucked up lives that they're trying to escape is like saying people who play sc are all total douchebag nerds who live in their basement because they have no friends. Why can you not understand that these experiences can have very profound and interesting results for yourself? They're not about escaping at all, they're about shedding new light on reality and yourself.
Yes people do it for fun or whatever but it still seems like a waste of time and money.
Again, over generalizing. Taking drugs does not mean you do it every day or every week for that matter. And not every drugdealer is some 'shady guy who gives you some good stuff for free and then robs you of all your lifesavings!!!!'
On September 01 2009 11:47 Kiarip wrote: ignoring this paragraph:
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
Your defense for using drugs is that if you didn't use them your life would be different O_o? I would agree with this statement, but I don't see how it serves as a defense (not to imply that you necessarily need a defense.)
I don't really have anything against these types of drug users, because I, myself am a believer in the clause "Reality is what's in your head," but I would assume that any drug that affects your way of thinking in this way has at least some chronic side-effects (obviously insignificant without overuse, but still existent.) So I personally probably won't take them ever.
Plus you never know which way these things are gonna swing your personality, so it seems like a serious risk if you take them for this purpose.
I would trust myself to turn my life/personality/views when I'm sober a lot more so than when I'm under the effect of one of these things, and to be honest I just don't see a plausible explanation for someone wanting to do it the other way around.
Yes, its probably a very personal thing. However i definitely know how much these things have changed my life. Also a lot of the negative side effects are greatly exaggerated. For example, remember that whole "one joint = 20 cigarettes" bullshit, when now its being shown that marijuana is an effective preventative to cancer? Admittedly PCP would be a bad example to use because people DO go crazy on it and HAVE done things (such as eating their sons eyes) but i've done pcp myself at least 7-10 times, and with a good amount of other people, and most of the time we just kind of sat there and tripped balls. I think it takes a certain degree of mental instability to snap and enter psychosis on PCP, just as i think it would take a certain amount of instability for any drug to trigger latent psychological disorders within you.
Ok, but doesn't it trigger a relatively drastic change in chemical balance in your brain during the reaction, which isn't something that it was originally designed (evolved) for, and so although it's quite possible that the risks aren't extremely high and probably much lower than advertised, since our current understanding of the nervous system is still pretty vague, these changes in chemical balance are probably dangerous (admittedly also possibly beneficial) for a lot more reasons than what is actually known about.
I just don't understand the logic behind taking some drug, the literal effect of which despite your claims you probably understand mostly/only in a non-quantifiable manner for a reason such as having a "life-changing experience," when the human mind is more than capable of this in it's default state without foreign substances.
The brain indeed evolved to have sudden massive changes in brain chemistry, which are, at least for a vast majority of your life, not normal. For example, in a fight or flight situation, adrenaline and other chemicals flood your body (and brain) in mass quantities. When you dream, and when you die, huge amounts of DMT are released into your brain as well. Also, i believe that the fact that we SPECIFIC opiate and cannabinoid receptors in our brains proves something. Maybe its not because of some overarching design, but i think that there is no way that those chemicals could be harmful if our brains are designed to handle them. I believe that this post responds to both your and Chef's posts.
Also, Chef, its your personal choice whether or not you choose to use psychoactives, because some people are uncomfortable with a change in their perspective. However i really do wish you would try something weak - like marijuana - at least once.
Edit: Also, i've taken those drugs that they warn about. I've literally done nearly everything you can think of and i am in perfect health, even according to my doctor. Obviously if i was a junkie it wouldn't be the case but its quite hard to become addicted to anything except meth, although even with meth you need to binge on it a couple times pretty close together before you start to become physically addicted.
Also ghermination do you know Minilogue? They have amazing music accompanied by videos that are terrific to look at when taking acid. Just turn on a playlist on youtube and you'll see.
Psychadelics: Cannabis :D JWH-017 (i think thats what it was called?) Marinol Shrooms LSD Luudes DMT AMT most of the 2c family except for 2c-i and some random others. LSA and a lot of others that i can't think of at this moment.
Dissociatives: DXM Ketamine PCP Nitrous Salvia (are there any other dissociatives? I don't really know, but i love them all except ketamine)
Drugs, or anything else, if you hurt yourself, you hurt everyone who depends on you. Unless you're a hermit living the middle of no where. Whether you care about that or not is your own look out, but 'no one gets hurt but me' is a bad excuse for anything.
On September 01 2009 11:47 Kiarip wrote: ignoring this paragraph:
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
Your defense for using drugs is that if you didn't use them your life would be different O_o? I would agree with this statement, but I don't see how it serves as a defense (not to imply that you necessarily need a defense.)
I don't really have anything against these types of drug users, because I, myself am a believer in the clause "Reality is what's in your head," but I would assume that any drug that affects your way of thinking in this way has at least some chronic side-effects (obviously insignificant without overuse, but still existent.) So I personally probably won't take them ever.
Plus you never know which way these things are gonna swing your personality, so it seems like a serious risk if you take them for this purpose.
I would trust myself to turn my life/personality/views when I'm sober a lot more so than when I'm under the effect of one of these things, and to be honest I just don't see a plausible explanation for someone wanting to do it the other way around.
Yes, its probably a very personal thing. However i definitely know how much these things have changed my life. Also a lot of the negative side effects are greatly exaggerated. For example, remember that whole "one joint = 20 cigarettes" bullshit, when now its being shown that marijuana is an effective preventative to cancer? Admittedly PCP would be a bad example to use because people DO go crazy on it and HAVE done things (such as eating their sons eyes) but i've done pcp myself at least 7-10 times, and with a good amount of other people, and most of the time we just kind of sat there and tripped balls. I think it takes a certain degree of mental instability to snap and enter psychosis on PCP, just as i think it would take a certain amount of instability for any drug to trigger latent psychological disorders within you.
Ok, but doesn't it trigger a relatively drastic change in chemical balance in your brain during the reaction, which isn't something that it was originally designed (evolved) for, and so although it's quite possible that the risks aren't extremely high and probably much lower than advertised, since our current understanding of the nervous system is still pretty vague, these changes in chemical balance are probably dangerous (admittedly also possibly beneficial) for a lot more reasons than what is actually known about.
I just don't understand the logic behind taking some drug, the literal effect of which despite your claims you probably understand mostly/only in a non-quantifiable manner for a reason such as having a "life-changing experience," when the human mind is more than capable of this in it's default state without foreign substances.
The brain indeed evolved to have sudden massive changes in brain chemistry, which are, at least for a vast majority of your life, not normal. For example, in a fight or flight situation, adrenaline and other chemicals flood your body (and brain) in mass quantities. When you dream, and when you die, huge amounts of DMT are released into your brain as well. Also, i believe that the fact that we SPECIFIC opiate and cannabinoid receptors in our brains proves something. Maybe its not because of some overarching design, but i think that there is no way that those chemicals could be harmful if our brains are designed to handle them. I believe that this post responds to both your and Chef's posts.
Also, Chef, its your personal choice whether or not you choose to use psychoactives, because some people are uncomfortable with a change in their perspective. However i really do wish you would try something weak - like marijuana - at least once.
Well all the chemical balance changes that are naturally induced (the ones that we are evolved to have.) are triggered by hormones, and chemicals produced in our bodies.
I don't think having the sensors is proof that we were designed to handle the chemicals. There is tons of stuff that nervous system can react to which pretty obviously isn't healthy for it. Any person can be driven mad by stimuluses that we are supposed to be able to "handle", and encounter constantly, just because of the hormones that get created, I don't see how chemicals which result in such ridiculously different responses amongst different users can be harmless.
i thought you went to jail for drug dealing or something like that? i remember i thread on it a while back. anyways, i never went beyond weed in high school so im not as knowledgeable as you, but I knew plenty of people who screwed themselves after getting into hard drugs..sure you might not, but society as a whole is probably better off with them illegal
On September 01 2009 11:03 ghermination wrote:
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
the vast majority of people don't use drugs, you are way overstating their influence.
On September 01 2009 12:26 Chef wrote: Drugs, or anything else, if you hurt yourself, you hurt everyone who depends on you. Unless you're a hermit living the middle of no where, you really are hurting more than just yourself. Whether your care about that or not is your own look out, but 'no one gets hurt but me' is a bad excuse for anything.
I'm sorry but that seems like a completely rediculous statement. Me doing any drug isn't going to cause my family to spontaneously burst into flames. Personally, my entire family is aware of my drug use and they are fine with it.
Obviously, if an addict ends up out on the streets, performing oral sex on a well endowed african american gentleman for an underweight balloon of black tar laced with acetone, then yes, that would probably cause heartache for the family. However hopeless addicts like that are the exception, many MANY people use all sorts of addictive drugs without getting addicted.
On September 01 2009 12:28 iamho wrote: i thought you went to jail for drug dealing or something like that? i remember i thread on it a while back. anyways, i never went beyond weed in high school so im not as knowledgeable as you, but I knew plenty of people who screwed themselves after getting into hard drugs..sure you might not, but society as a whole is probably better off with them illegal
There seems to be some sort of... repression of psychoactives in our modern culture. Mushrooms wrote the Bible. Marijuana and LSD created the 70's in America. DXM is becoming an outlet for expression for thousands of people all over the world. For some reason we've come to this belief that "Psychoactives are bad." And propaganda distributed by governments all over the world continues to drive that belief home in millions (if not billions) or perfectly intelligent people. However, as in the examples i explained earlier, when a psychoactive becomes an important part of a culture, it always changes things in (relatively arguably) good ways.
the vast majority of people don't use drugs, you are way overstating their influence.
You obviously weren't alive during the 70's if you can say that with a straight face. Woodstock, Grassroots movements, the whole "Peace and Love" things? Most of these were fueled both by a new generation shocked by the crimes of the past, and by a new wave of freshly discovered psychoactives. (Esp. marijuana and LSD)
Edit: also i got off completely scott-free on the Ketamine thing, however the guy that robbed the veterinary clinic is probably going to end up in jail for quite a while. They didn't see any reason for pursuing me in court considering i never did anything wrong and they were convinced that the transaction never took place.
On September 01 2009 12:10 Xeofreestyler wrote: Your post kinda makes me angry because its so full of negative assumptions, but like you said you dont know a thing about drugs so I'll try to share some insights.
The reason I'm so obviously biased is from personal experiences that have to do with the people I know who do drugs on an "occasional" to "often" basis. The majority (NOT ALL) of these people exemplify qualities and characteristics that I find completely aggravating and irresponsible. Again, not all of them, but the majority.
Not every drug has the same effect of putting you in some fairytale land. There's a reason why some people try LSD but wont ever go near heroin, etc. Look at it this way: the world around us is completely processed through our mind. Everything you see, hear, feel, etc is filtered through your gray mass. So why isnt it interesting to induce a difference in how you perceive things? Hormones do it to us all the time. The weather does it to us. Food does it to us. Why not with a drug-experience? Assuming that everyone would constantly be taking drugs is also complete bogus. The fear of addiction is something that people have been putting in your mind since you've been little. If you know what you are getting into, have self control and make sure you do not abuse or do it too much, addiction is basically impossible. Every drug is of course different in this effect (I wouldnt take meth because of how addicting this is). But its not like everyone who enjoys a beer from time to time is a goddamn alcoholic.
Having never done them I could use a bit more detail :o. What's the difference in feeling people get between LSD/Heroin/PCP/Cocaine?
Hah, I don't have a fear of addiction, my personality isn't addictive at all, I just don't see any appeal in altering my state of mind. I like myself
Read my previous statement. The LSD statement was probably kind of a joke. But still. All you're saying shows how you know absolutely nothing about what these things do and how people handle them. And again, do you see people boozing all day during work or what?
People don't booze at work because it's against the law. I'm sure plenty of people would booze during the day if they could . I was operating under the assumption that his "culturally advancing" drugs would be legal at all times of the day, where not just those limited only by their creativity (artists, musicians, etc.) do it during working hours.
Actually many drugs can induce strong spiritual trips and insights into one's psyche. Saying people who use drugs must have fucked up lives that they're trying to escape is like saying people who play sc are all total douchebag nerds who live in their basement because they have no friends. Why can you not understand that these experiences can have very profound and interesting results for yourself? They're not about escaping at all, they're about shedding new light on reality and yourself.
Wait, not every person who plays SC is like that? . On a serious note though, I've never viewed drugs like that before. And the reason for my perspective is not because of some bullshit theory that I suck up every media message and parental view like a fat girl on cookies, my perspective comes from my own experiences with the people who associate themselves with drugs/alcohol.
Again, over generalizing. Taking drugs does not mean you do it every day or every week for that matter. And not every drugdealer is some 'shady guy who gives you some good stuff for free and then robs you of all your lifesavings!!!!'
Yes I know but enough people die from drunk drivers who AREN'T alcoholics for me to think of it as so much better when you aren't a frequent user.
Another question: If drugs are so culturally advancing and have positive effects, why are they never mentioned in connection with world-changing individuals? I'm talking Albert Einstein/Mahatma Gandhi/Adolf Hitler/Galileo Galilei/William Shakespeare/Plato/Aristotle/Isaac Newton/Karl Marx/Thomas Jefferson/Benjamin Franklin/Alexander the Great/Mao/Stalin/Abraham Lincoln/Napoleon/Genghis Khan/on and on and on
On September 01 2009 12:26 Chef wrote: Drugs, or anything else, if you hurt yourself, you hurt everyone who depends on you. Unless you're a hermit living the middle of no where, you really are hurting more than just yourself. Whether your care about that or not is your own look out, but 'no one gets hurt but me' is a bad excuse for anything.
I'm sorry but that seems like a completely rediculous statement. Me doing any drug isn't going to cause my family to spontaneously burst into flames. Personally, my entire family is aware of my drug use and they are fine with it.
Obviously, if an addict ends up out on the streets, performing oral sex on a well endowed african american gentleman for an underweight balloon of black tar laced with acetone, then yes, that would probably cause heartache for the family. However hopeless addicts like that are the exception, many MANY people use all sorts of addictive drugs without getting addicted.
Note the qualification "If you hurt yourself." I wasn't saying drugs automatically hurt you, I was saying if you hurt yourself using drugs, or anything else for that matter, you are in fact hurting more than just yourself.
On September 01 2009 12:36 Koiru wrote: Having never done them I could use a bit more detail :o. What's the difference in feeling people get between LSD/Heroin/PCP/Cocaine?
Those are quite different drugs.
LSD is a psychadelic, so it causes your brain to process the information it recieves differently, which causes the classical psychadelic colors, patterns, and in higher doses introspective "trips" where you imagine yourself as an egg or something like that. However, it never really makes you see things that aren't there.
Heroin is an Opiate, so it basically makes you "feel good man". It makes you sit there and "nod", which is basically slipping in and out of a sleeplike state and thinking wierd but not necessarily trippy things.
PCP is a Dissociative, so it makes your mind dissociate itself from your body, basically your awareness becomes seperated from what you view as your "self", it causes ego death, so that you may become the grain in the fibers of the carpet, or the light reflected on the window blinds, with no way of knowing what you originally were. It can be quite disorienting and scary, and is definitely VERY intense.
Cocaine is a stimulant, which means that it increases your heart rate and metabolism. It fills you with new energy and euphoria, and makes you feel invincible and on top of the world. You could run 20 miles and then bring 9001 women to climax without breaking a sweat, and you are the single greatest human being in the world. However it doesn't really effect your mind, it just gives you this vague emotional FEELING that is nonetheless powerful.
Well I think the reason that society generally condemns drug use is because of peoples tendency to go overboard. If it was widely accepted a large portion of the population would be unproductive. While it's true that everyone has their way to escape, drug use can make the real world seem extremely tedious and boring.
Most drugs are indulgent and nothing productive IRL actually comes out of it. I realize that I sound pretty conservative but I do think occasional natural drug use can be beneficial just very hard to control.
Drug misuse is not a disease, it is a decision, like the decision to step out in front of a moving car. You would call that not a disease but an error in judgement. When a bunch of people begin to do it, it is a social error, a life-style. In this particular life-style the motto is "Be happy now because tomorrow you are dying," but the dying begins almost at once, and the happiness is a memory.
On September 01 2009 12:56 Wotans_Fire wrote: Well I think the reason that society generally condemns drug use is because of peoples tendency to go overboard. If it was widely accepted a large portion of the population would be unproductive. While it's true that everyone has their way to escape, drug use can make the real world seem extremely tedious and boring.
Most drugs are indulgent and nothing productive IRL actually comes out of it. I realize that I sound pretty conservative but I do think occasional natural drug use can be beneficial just very hard to control.
Have you read the rest of the thread where perfectly good arguments were given to your points?
When I read through this thread, it reminded me of a dystopian novel called "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.
In that novel, there's a drug called soma that everyone takes. Though it's a necessity and a rule to take that drug in the novel, when the citizens of the World State took that drug, they went into a "peace and love" trance somewhat similar to that of the 70's, if I read the posts correctly.
But when the main character, the Caveman, didn't take soma, and left his Indian preservation for the World State, he was disillusioned.
Though I admit, things in this novel are somewhat exaggerated, Huxley wrote this novel in the hopes of making people realize what the use of technology, drugs, and psychology can do to the world.
By the way, I have never taken drugs. Nor do I like any kind of alcohol. Just thought you should know before you read the rest. And thought you should also know that I have never experienced the things you have, ghermination, so just know that this is not an insult to your opinion, nor am I trying to change it. It's up to you.
(This is biased to my opinion, so you've been forewarned):
In my opinion, you don't need drugs for recreational use to get all of these experiences. I've had plenty of things in my life I remember(I also have part photogenic memory) and I've experienced them all in my normal state.
I also believe that drugs are forms of escapism. From what I know in novels I've read, the different philosophies I've taken a bit of in my wonderful English Literature classes, the people I know, and what people do, people do drugs because they're stuck or stumped about something. Because they can't think of or come up with other options.
It may be true that, from what I've read from your posts, that drugs can give you unforgettable experiences and show you other ways of thinking, I don't think it's necessary for people to use drugs to see those ways.
And remember, all of the cultural changes that occurred, if you think about it, happened as a result of people's actions, not directly by drugs. Drugs were simply a way of giving ideas; the mind of the people chose their own way. So in actuality, they might've not needed the drugs to push for those cultural changes.
We already have widespread use of two drugs that have psychoactive effects: Nicotine and alcohol. For those that don't already know, nicotine is the drug found in tobacco products like cigarettes, cigars, etc.
These drugs are perfectly legal and have been for years centuries. There is also evidence that certain drugs are both less harmful and less likely to cause dependancy than both alcohol and tobacco.
IMHO there is no reason that these drugs could not be legalized and regulated by the government. In fact, I do think that's the best option. It would create a whole new industry, and government regulation (needing a license to sell, and most likely individual taxes like those on tobacco) would help create more revenue for the government. The legalization process would also ensure the product would be safe, instead of people running the risk of buying tainted drugs (not sure how big of a problem this actually is, but the risk is still there).
In a practical sense, there is very little difference between drinking and smoking weed. To be honest, I do not do drugs of any kind (except occasional drinking) but hey, it's not like the legalization process would force me to start taking it or anything.
Yeah Icarus I an tell you have 0 experience or knowledge about drugs from your post.
I don't buy "It's not necessary" as a reason, and you compare how you are "fine" without drugs when you don't have anything to compare it to. Most of your points have already been addressed in this thread anyways by Xeo.
Wouldn't the "Soma" from The Brave new world be MUCH more comparable to Alcohol, Cigarettes, and Coffee then more heavy psychoactive drugs?
Yea, I don't have any experience, and I don't have any knowledge of drugs past the D.A.R.E program some of us had in elementary school. I told you that already.
And the soma can be comparable to alcohol, cigarettes, and coffee just as much as the psycoactive drugs that ghermination is talking about. I hope you've read the book before you said that. Because Wikipedia, Cliffnotes, and all that stuff doesn't cut it for this book. It's an amazing book; takes more than a research paper to know it inside and out.
As you said in your post, I have 0 experience or knowledge past D.A.R.E(never really had interest in that stuff anyways). Now, do you have knowledge of the book?
All I'm doing is talking about something that sounded SIMILAR to what ghermination is talking about when I talked about Brave New World. To go off on a tangent, it's one of the most shocking novels I've ever read. In a good way, an eye-opener way.
Also, "it's not necessary" isn't a reason. All I'm saying is that you don't need them to have some of the positive experiences in life. I have more than a few friends around me who've had them before, w/o drugs. It's not a reason. It's a way of life.
We're all biased, don't you think? Have you tried to go on for 18 years without use of drugs, going to school, reading books, going out to play, go on the computer, and do all of those tiny things in life without drugs? That's what I did, and here's where I led my life so far.
How about you? You sound like you've had both sides, drugs and no-drugs, side of life. Have you ever went for an extremely long period of time without them? I'm not just talking a few years, not just childhood. It takes more than that to truly know yourself. At least that's what I think.
On September 01 2009 12:10 Xeofreestyler wrote: Your post kinda makes me angry because its so full of negative assumptions, but like you said you dont know a thing about drugs so I'll try to share some insights.
The reason I'm so obviously biased is from personal experiences that have to do with the people I know who do drugs on an "occasional" to "often" basis. The majority (NOT ALL) of these people exemplify qualities and characteristics that I find completely aggravating and irresponsible. Again, not all of them, but the majority.
Understandable, wherever something exists, people will be there to abuse it. But I dont see how a percentage of the population can be a valid argument against drugs. Its not the drugs, its the people who handle them. Thats why, instead of condoning them and illegalizing them, people should be better informed about how they work so that people can start using them in a more responsible manner. I was lucky to have a very good teacher in high school that informed us about drugs' negative AND positive sides, not just negative. I'm pretty sure thats still the reason that I treat these chemicals with respect and always read up massive amounts of information before trying something new, instead of just going WOO PAR-TAY and popping some random pill.
Not every drug has the same effect of putting you in some fairytale land. There's a reason why some people try LSD but wont ever go near heroin, etc. Look at it this way: the world around us is completely processed through our mind. Everything you see, hear, feel, etc is filtered through your gray mass. So why isnt it interesting to induce a difference in how you perceive things? Hormones do it to us all the time. The weather does it to us. Food does it to us. Why not with a drug-experience? Assuming that everyone would constantly be taking drugs is also complete bogus. The fear of addiction is something that people have been putting in your mind since you've been little. If you know what you are getting into, have self control and make sure you do not abuse or do it too much, addiction is basically impossible. Every drug is of course different in this effect (I wouldnt take meth because of how addicting this is). But its not like everyone who enjoys a beer from time to time is a goddamn alcoholic.
Having never done them I could use a bit more detail :o. What's the difference in feeling people get between LSD/Heroin/PCP/Cocaine?
Hah, I don't have a fear of addiction, my personality isn't addictive at all, I just don't see any appeal in altering my state of mind. I like myself
Well ghermination explained this pretty well. If you wanna read about drugs' effects or what kind of things people experience www.erowid.org is a very good source. (experiences: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/)
And I don't have any problem with people who don't feel the need to do drugs. I just don't like it when these people start forming strong opinions based on very little knowledge at all.
Read my previous statement. The LSD statement was probably kind of a joke. But still. All you're saying shows how you know absolutely nothing about what these things do and how people handle them. And again, do you see people boozing all day during work or what?
People don't booze at work because it's against the law. I'm sure plenty of people would booze during the day if they could . I was operating under the assumption that his "culturally advancing" drugs would be legal at all times of the day, where not just those limited only by their creativity (artists, musicians, etc.) do it during working hours.
Even if drugs would be legalized, I don't think anyone would say that there shouldn't be any control. On the contrary actually. And this is to the guy that said 'keeping it illegal is best for society'. Thats the whole thing. Its not. Drugs WILL be around. And if you keep them illegal, people who seek them will have to keep coming in contact with illegal activities. It also costs a shitload for law enforcements to hunt all this down. If there would be a state-controlled way of distributing drugs (like in Holland for weed) the damage this illegalization brings to society would be GREATLY reduced.
Actually many drugs can induce strong spiritual trips and insights into one's psyche. Saying people who use drugs must have fucked up lives that they're trying to escape is like saying people who play sc are all total douchebag nerds who live in their basement because they have no friends. Why can you not understand that these experiences can have very profound and interesting results for yourself? They're not about escaping at all, they're about shedding new light on reality and yourself.
Wait, not every person who plays SC is like that? . On a serious note though, I've never viewed drugs like that before. And the reason for my perspective is not because of some bullshit theory that I suck up every media message and parental view like a fat girl on cookies, my perspective comes from my own experiences with the people who associate themselves with drugs/alcohol.
Well, okay, but like I said: you shouldn't judge drugs based on the people who take them, much like the same way you shouldn't judge a game by the people who play it.
Again, over generalizing. Taking drugs does not mean you do it every day or every week for that matter. And not every drugdealer is some 'shady guy who gives you some good stuff for free and then robs you of all your lifesavings!!!!'
Yes I know but enough people die from drunk drivers who AREN'T alcoholics for me to think of it as so much better when you aren't a frequent user.
Still a case of personal responsibility.
Another question: If drugs are so culturally advancing and have positive effects, why are they never mentioned in connection with world-changing individuals? I'm talking Albert Einstein/Mahatma Gandhi/Adolf Hitler/Galileo Galilei/William Shakespeare/Plato/Aristotle/Isaac Newton/Karl Marx/Thomas Jefferson/Benjamin Franklin/Alexander the Great/Mao/Stalin/Abraham Lincoln/Napoleon/Genghis Khan/on and on and on
'Never mentioned'? Dude you really need to stop making generalizations lol. Of course some of the people you mentioned lived way too long ago to give any defining proof about them (even though I have heard quite a few things about the ancient greek having access to psychoactive substances, Delphic oracles for example were under the influence) But here's a list you might enjoy: http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/characters_drug_use.shtml
On September 01 2009 13:54 Icarus wrote: We're all biased, don't you think? Have you tried to go on for 18 years without use of drugs, going to school, reading books, going out to play, go on the computer, and do all of those tiny things in life without drugs? That's what I did, and here's where I led my life so far.
How about you? You sound like you've had both sides, drugs and no-drugs, side of life. Have you ever went for an extremely long period of time without them? I'm not just talking a few years, not just childhood. It takes more than that to truly know yourself. At least that's what I think.
I spent 19 years without doing any drugs besides caffeine (and a little nicotine).
I bought into the propaganda. Not all the way. It was perfectly obvious to me that smoking a joint didn't turn you into a drug fiend - that the cancer claims were dubious at best. I knew some dumb slackers that had gotten into weed in high school, and I always said that it wasn't the thing for me.
That was the right decision to make - at the time.
In college, I decided to try Marijuana. It was a truly eye-opening experience. My appreciation for complex music is due entirely to the herb. Before, I didn't notice anything in music, it was a flag canvas. Now I hear each instrument playing individually, I can tell if it's the bass, or the guitar playing, I hear the variation in each (or lack thereof). This revelation alone is enough to cause me to realize that drugs can be a beneficial thing.
LSD was the true eye opener for me though. It brought me to a profound realization of self. I saw everything that I was doing wrong in my life. I stopped smoking weed. I traded it for working out. I started being social to people everywhere. It brought me out of a downward spiral of loneliness and escapism. This isn't even touching the mental effects of the trip (which were quite profound)
The funny thing, is by any standard measurement, my trip was a very bad trip. I spiraled out of control into a black chasm, turn apart into nothing by dark demons. It is a strange feeling indeed to assign your name and age to yourself - to realize the elements of your identity that you take so much for granted are fleeting constructs of the mind. I had to tell myself that I was strong enough to pull myself out of that chasm, to be yself again
As I realize I'm rambling, the point I wish to make is that my drug experience blessed me with a self-awareness that I lacked before, and abilities that I simply didn't have before.
Drugs should be approached with respect and care, not abused. But to dismiss them outright without a fair trial is ludicrious. To say 'it's not for me' without knowing what it is about, much less giving it a shot is so very narrow minded.
If you were truly secure in yourself, you would know that one drug experience isn't going to change the fundamental reality of yourself.
Another question: If drugs are so culturally advancing and have positive effects, why are they never mentioned in connection with world-changing individuals? I'm talking Albert Einstein/Mahatma Gandhi/Adolf Hitler/Galileo Galilei/William Shakespeare/Plato/Aristotle/Isaac Newton/Karl Marx/Thomas Jefferson/Benjamin Franklin/Alexander the Great/Mao/Stalin/Abraham Lincoln/Napoleon/Genghis Khan/on and on and on
Francis Crick / The Beatles / Carl Sagan / Barack Obama.
Listing a bunch of people who you assume never took drugs doesn't prove very much.
Which leads me to a tangential point. People always say "all the drug users I know are total fuck ups". NO. All the people who you know of using drugs are the obvious ones - those that have spiraled out of control. The average drug user is a perfectly reasonable person. You'd never even know they used drugs. In fact, you don't! With confirmation bias, you just assume ALL (or at least most) drug users are the out of control whack jobs you see.
Reminds me of a guy on another starcraft forum who always talked about his drug use. Yada yada it's 4-5 years later -> mental institution, suicidal I wonder if he's still alive.
Drugs only become dangerous if you do them a lot. I don't know how often you take drugs but judging by your post I give you 10 years tops before it goes downhill.
Wow, this whole discussion reminds me of religion threads, except now with drugs and much more civil. (I'm not making a direct comparison, but I see the parallels in the posts and arguments; testimonies, generalizations, etc.)
Do you have to try something before judging it? Are there exceptions to this? I also believe that some people just don't have the will power/self control to handle some of these drugs, should they still try them?
EPT
Too many people think that using = abusing. There can be amazing things in moderation people!
