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On August 30 2009 02:01 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 19:05 Loser777 wrote:On August 29 2009 17:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On August 29 2009 14:12 Loser777 wrote:
Thanks for all of the suggestions on cheese -that was how I got to D+ in the first place... then started only playing Zs on Iccup and forcing myself to use Han Bang 3 Vessel 1 Tank build and I'm back at D. (Why I made this thread)
TvZ is getting me addicted to this game at a time when I really can't afford to be. LOL dude that build is 3 tanks 1 vessel not 3 vessels 1 tank Unfortunately that's only a typo. Sigh............................ not every problem has a magical fix. But how could you not see something fundamentally wrong with rushing 3 vessels and having only one tank for a han bang attack? Improving a general understanding of the game is very important along with all the macro micro stuffs.
You idiot, his only mistake was a mistake in his writing. He meant 3 tanks 1 vessel, as he explained.
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If it makes you feel any better I used to get flatted by almost every Terran at D+ back when I played Zerg. Seemed like everyone was doing Bio pretty well. I lost to one guy who just want macro crazy, 3 base (Andromeda) 6 Rax and just Amoved at me. Seemed to focus only on controling Tanks/SV.
I can sympathize with being frustrated with lurker/muta though. There is a guy in my clan that his muta micro makes me feel bad for any terran.
Stick with it sir and GL
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I just go mech almost all the time.
What really annoys me is the number of timing attacks zergs can pull off vs mech so you need to be REALLY crisp with your BO - but other than that the mechanics of mech are very simple.
I think for mech the most important thing is scouting a 2 hatch vs a 3hatch - if you dont have the apm to keep your scout alive for this then you need to up your apm
/multitasking
The thing is, if your opponent 12 hatches and you go FE, but then he does some 2 hatch build (muta, lurker or hydra) you are in BIIIG trouble if you try and fantasy and invest in any sort of vulture harass more than 1 vulture for scouting.
If i fail scout i am usually just lost - i will prepare for mutas and a 2 hat hydra break comes, or i will prepare for 2 hat hydra and a ton of mutas come, or i try and fast expand vs a 12 hatch and a bunch of lurkers run up my ramp and i dont have enough scan/turrets in the wrong position. You only have to choose the wrong build out of 4 or more possible ones for zerg and its gg so scouting is a must
Or if i go a 2 fact build order my expansion will be super late so i HAVE to get in some econ dmg in (or if he 2hatch build its okish) and i get to mine up to delay a hydra push etc.
Ihmo (D+ only but) it is a bit of rock paper scissors in terms of build, with scouting involved for mech, but once you get the right BO choice down i find zergs have a REALLY hard time dealing with mech (usually the correct choice is to expand a lot and defend minimally with hydras, but have the THREAT so that the terran is forces to expand slowly, and just build up the quick econ advantage. I find usually if a zerg gets to defilers without me having damaged him and his defences are up i am GG since plague and swarm really rip apart mech and i dont have the gas for vessels)
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Ofc, all this could be wrong cause im just a D+ player but, thats just my opinions. Still think mech is a million times easier on APM than zerg, you just need to make sure you choose the correct build order and scout properly or you will end up with a lot of build order losses
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Alright, to further prove my point, here's a video of me getting rolled by some D level Korean.
(You can play whatever music you want, I'm not going to annoy people with my own preferences)
+ Show Spoiler +
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your B/O is off, your mouse control is really not precise at all (lower sensitivity maybe? acceleration off?) hotkey your production buildings at least in the early to midgame.. you're missing production cycles entirely
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I just tried switching to terran from c-/c zerg. I am done with terran all together now. It is so ridiculously hard it's not even funny. I am like D/D+ terran and feel like the biggest noob ever. It's so fucking stupid makes me rage. I have a lot of respect for terran players now :S
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On August 30 2009 17:45 resonance wrote:
I just tried switching to terran from c-/c zerg. I am done with terran all together now. It is so ridiculously hard it's not even funny. I am like D/D+ terran and feel like the biggest noob ever. It's so fucking stupid makes me rage. I have a lot of respect for terran players now :S
How long did you spend actually playing Terran? Of course you're not going to be the same rank when you change from one race to another, it just simply doesn't work that way. If your brain is on a Zerg mindset, you can't just go ahead and play TvZ and expect it to feel right, easy, or normal at any level.
On August 30 2009 16:04 Duke wrote:
your B/O is off, your mouse control is really not precise at all (lower sensitivity maybe? acceleration off?) hotkey your production buildings at least in the early to midgame.. you're missing production cycles entirely
Also, just to add on to this guy's point about the video:
You didn't react correctly to what you saw. You saw that he had an evo chamber, a spire, and a den. At this point, you should ASSUME mutas, because if you assume wrong, you're not being put behind by being contained with lurkers, but if you're wrong by guessing lurkers and he goes mutas, your army will get destroyed, as it did here.
Your turret placement is quite bad, if he had made more mutas and harrassed you, he would probably get so insanely ahead just by the lack of proper army/turret placement that it didn't really matter from then on. Now, if someone goes spire, den, chamber at the same time, theres something he's missing, right? Economy, he won't be able to get his 3rd gas going very quickly, so he will either have to have less units and get his hive tech as normal, or stay at lair tech longer before being able to reach hive tech. This means that if you can survive the initial influx of army he will have (faster lurkers, possibly +1 carapace before normal), you will be put very much ahead. To react to this, make 2 bunkers and position your mm/tanks better so that you can demolish him when he attacks, and push out successfully with your first vessel.
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After re-watching the video, you didn't even click on the hydralisk den to know that he was even going lurkers, so why in the world would you want to go and contain him after only seeing a spire being created? Another tip, obviously, is to place your scans better (natural scan didn't even cover the left side of the creep), and click on every morphing building so that you know exactly what he's up to.
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It's only hard if you don't have barely acceptable APM (200+).
Once the Terran has sufficient APM, it becomes incredibly hard for the Z and always stays like that.
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I suggest you to play 1 base terran, 2 base terran is the worst strategy ever if you don't have good mechanics. As a slow zerg player, if I face a fast expanding terran of my level, it's a free win for me because they only start to be dangerous after 10 min in the game and at this stage they can't macro and micro well because there is too much thing to do, I just have to expand every where, make ultralisk and it's over. On the contrary since my micro is not very good, a well excuted fast push will kill me 75% of the time, and you only need 150 apm to do this.
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10319 Posts
TvZ is a match-up that relies very heavily on mechanics, that much is true. Practice your mechanics and stop crying about it.
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On August 30 2009 03:46 Adeny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2009 02:01 Divinek wrote:On August 29 2009 19:05 Loser777 wrote:On August 29 2009 17:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On August 29 2009 14:12 Loser777 wrote:
Thanks for all of the suggestions on cheese -that was how I got to D+ in the first place... then started only playing Zs on Iccup and forcing myself to use Han Bang 3 Vessel 1 Tank build and I'm back at D. (Why I made this thread)
TvZ is getting me addicted to this game at a time when I really can't afford to be. LOL dude that build is 3 tanks 1 vessel not 3 vessels 1 tank Unfortunately that's only a typo. Sigh............................ not every problem has a magical fix. But how could you not see something fundamentally wrong with rushing 3 vessels and having only one tank for a han bang attack? Improving a general understanding of the game is very important along with all the macro micro stuffs. You idiot, his only mistake was a mistake in his writing. He meant 3 tanks 1 vessel, as he explained.
Oh I coulda swore I saw 'not a typo' which was a reason for the whole post, and which made me smile.
Don't need to call people idiots just because they have learning disabilities and you're insecure.
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I have learning disabilities, awesome.
But yeah, mechanics mechanics mechanics. If D level is this hard then damn.
After watching this myself, I'm realizing that I'm missing production rounds a lot even when I'm clicking on raxes... I think I hit "n" instead of "m" quite a bit.
As for mouse sensitivity, I think I just have a control issue. I have it on Highest speed with "Enable Pointer Precision" on. I use some generic Logitech BT96a, which is supposed to be 1000dpi... I don't think that's a problem.
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if i remember correctly day[9] recommends turning enable pointer precision off
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That makes my mouse movements pretty effed up lol...
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On August 31 2009 05:59 Loser777 wrote:
That makes my mouse movements pretty effed up lol...
Not so much.. because you'll only get used to the feeling and actually learn the correct muscle movements; as for mouse acceleration, the movements are not always the same because it depends on both the speed and the distance you move the mouse, and is much much less accurate once you're used to the other way around. I definately back Day[9] when he says that everyone should remove mouse acceleration, it's just a horrible tool when learning to improve in a computer game.
EDIT: Sorry, you're speaking of pointer precision, which also should be turned off, AFAIK
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It's the same thing, everyone just turn it off. Also, as I remember you need to update your registry to completely disable it b/c of some glitch in Windows. Just google "windows xp remove acceleration" or something like that.
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trust me, zvt is harder
we have to gather our units even when theyre all scattered, pay attention to the minimap incase of drops, figure out where the terran ball is at all times, move lurks back when T sieges, scourge vessels, consume, TIME all of our attacks
most of this is hard to do because of one word: PRESSURE
terrans on the other hand just need good hand speed to keep minerals and gas low, regather units from choke, and from there its just microing on the field and deciding how to kill the zerg effectively. its really hard to keep pumping from the rax though even with high apm. its easier to keep minerals and gas down with zerg
im REALLY sick of people saying tvz harder than zvt. Just the mindset that we have to FLANK USING A BIG ARMY and rely on ONE SPELL WHICH IS AT HIVE TECH to win? -_- its so hard to flank because of builds including stylish which take advantage of these lurker timings
oh and the difference in skill between good zergs and bad zergs is insane. ever seen a zerg lose their entire army from mismicro in zvt and then seen the T contain the z?
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On August 29 2009 13:11 Sigh wrote:
5 Lurkers can kill a 150 supply army in 5 seconds. =(
did you hear? Tanks out range lurkers!
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Actually with highest speed, it's easier for you with "enable mouse precision" because it slows down mouse speed. Try to play with medium speed and no mouse precision, it will be much more easier.
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On August 31 2009 07:54 loupouk wrote:
Actually with highest speed, it's easier for you with "enable mouse precision" because it slows down mouse speed. Try to play with medium speed and no mouse precision, it will be much more easier.
So much mis-information. Pointer precision doesn't slow down mouse speed at all, jesus christ. It makes your pointer move according to your hand-speed. So if you move your hand fast, it'll move faster relative to the distance you are moving your mouse. Precision or not doesn't matter at all, It's just a matter of what you get used to, but it seems alot of people have an easier time to get used to having it off, so try that.
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EPT
