EPTA very silly discussion point.
Watching Ronaldo fans this tournament grasp at anything to try and discredit Messi has been brilliant!
Carry on.
FIFA World Cup 2022 - Knockout Stage - Page 78
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9655 Posts
A very silly discussion point. Watching Ronaldo fans this tournament grasp at anything to try and discredit Messi has been brilliant! Carry on. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18414 Posts
On December 15 2022 19:37 Jockmcplop wrote: A very silly discussion point. Watching Ronaldo fans this tournament grasp at anything to try and discredit Messi has been brilliant! Carry on. As if I am a Ronaldo fanboy lol. I respect both players but find it ridiculous how Messi is best in everything when stats prove he isnt. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9655 Posts
On December 15 2022 19:40 sharkie wrote: As if I am a Ronaldo fanboy lol. I respect both players but find it ridiculous how Messi is best in everything when stats prove he isnt. 'The best in everything' is very vague. You mean at this world cup? I haven't seen anyone say Messi has been the best at everything in this world cup. Zero people said this. If you mean over the course of his career, I reckon the stats might prove you wrong. If you mean overall world cup performance, well he is the tied best goalscorer and on top of that his chances created has been very good too so he's going to be near the top of the list anyway. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8658 Posts
argentina without messi may not have even advanced out of groups. france without griezmann would have done just fine, as demonstrated already by the fact that theyre already missing half of what would be their usual starting 11 and yet are still in the finals. messi's stats are insane, but stats alone cannot paint you a picture of how good messi is anyway, so comparing stats to judge players is pointless. | ||
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Rookie6
Brazil583 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
On December 15 2022 14:10 nojok wrote: Somehow no one mentions Griezmann's game here? He's the player of the tournament again, for the third time in 4 consecutive major tournaments, no praise, no accolade. We have yet to concede a non penalty goal in the knock out stage but apparently the opponent is always the better team. Some bias there for sure :p But yeah Griezman got a lot of praise in our local TVs this last game for his overall actions with and without the ball. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18414 Posts
On December 15 2022 19:55 evilfatsh1t wrote: messi > griezmann in this tournament alone. for obvious reasons we dont need to compare careers. argentina without messi may not have even advanced out of groups. france without griezmann would have done just fine, as demonstrated already by the fact that theyre already missing half of what would be their usual starting 11 and yet are still in the finals. messi's stats are insane, but stats alone cannot paint you a picture of how good messi is anyway, so comparing stats to judge players is pointless. So if argentina wins the world cup its all messi right? The other players are just there for decoration.oh and if argentina loses the final its all down to those 10 bystanders right? Must be nice being messi. That is so ridicilous. Griezmann for France has been as vital as Messi has been for Argentina. Messi on field means tons for offense yes but its also a very big weakness for defense. I cant believe I am givong props to Argentinians but they have done an extremely good job shutting out opposition On December 15 2022 19:45 Jockmcplop wrote: 'The best in everything' is very vague. You mean at this world cup? I haven't seen anyone say Messi has been the best at everything in this world cup. Zero people said this. If you mean over the course of his career, I reckon the stats might prove you wrong. If you mean overall world cup performance, well he is the tied best goalscorer and on top of that his chances created has been very good too so he's going to be near the top of the list anyway. Many people have said that. In fact the post below you claims that he is the best in this world cup | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8658 Posts
On December 15 2022 21:28 sharkie wrote: So if argentina wins the world cup its all messi right? The other players are just there for decoration.oh and if argentina loses the final its all down to those 10 bystanders right? Must be nice being messi. That is so ridicilous. Griezmann for France has been as vital as Messi has been for Argentina. Messi on field means tons for offense yes but its also a very big weakness for defense. I cant believe I am givong props to Argentinians but they have done an extremely good job shutting out opposition Many people have said that. In fact the post below you claims that he is the best in this world cup if messi doesnt show up in the finals then france will win. argentina's attack revolves around messi so much he cant afford to have a bad game. so yes, if argentina wins messi will have been absolutely pivotal in that. i dont see how this is even an argument. when messi plays like messi hes the best in the world bar none. its not even a debate how much better he is than any other player. this season at psg he started to show that he was finding his form again and then during this tournament hes actually made people forget that hes 35 years old and had a terrible season by his standards just a year before. griezmann is doing well for france, but hes no messi | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6219 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
The real question is why is Mbappe being hyped more than Griezmann. Despite their age difference, their career trajectory took around the same period. And Griezmann arguably contributed more to the French team in the last 5-7 years since Euro 2016 (in which he finished as top goal scorer and player of the tournament). Messi is just at another level. No player will generate the same hype unless they've won as many trophies and awards as him, and play the same beautiful football that mesmerises hard core and casual football fans around the world. I have been praising Griezmann a lot and feel that he's underrated. But cmon, arguing that he deserves as much hype as Messi is just comparing apples and oranges. Griezmann will get his due recognition, just not the same way as Messi has. If Griezmann wins the WC, he deserves to be footballer of year more than Messi (just like Modric). But that's still not enough to knock Messi of the GOAT pedestal and take away Messi's auto-GOAT air time. | ||
Poopi
France12886 Posts
With the eye test though, Messi has done impressive things (dunno how legal the arms movement was or not since players always seem to push each other) vs Croatia that I watched, and Mbappe has also done magical things. Both times it was magical dribbling / running to make the assist: Messi iirc for 3rd goal, and Mbappe for the 2nd goal vs Morocco being between 4 or 5 players | ||
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sharkie
Austria18414 Posts
I respect Messi a lot and he deserves most of the praise in the game but Griezmann is not just doing offensive and magical work but also a lot of tracking back, covering and hes everywhere at once. And while doing that he produced more chances than Messi has so for me Griezmann has been just the better player this tournament. I am so surprised to see so many of you disregard the most vital part of football. Not conceding goals/chances | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
Of course Messi magic can happen, but the same can be said about Di Maria or Enzo F. I feel we are about 40/60 odds, but most betting sites and analysis are putting it dead even. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On December 16 2022 00:14 RKC wrote: For me, Griezmann and not Mbappe is France's MVP. Yeah he is everywhere at once. Mbappe is the X factor and drags a lot of defensive attention on himself, but Griezmann not only defends effectively, he also creates a lot of opportunities in offense as well. However, having Mbappe drawing the attention allows Griezmann to perform in that hybrid role. Thankfully Griezmann let his ego aside and do some dirty work for the team, and that works wonder for us  . | ||
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mAKiTO
Colombia4171 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0SAvWaZ.jpg) Lets hope im right | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8658 Posts
On December 15 2022 23:11 sharkie wrote: If France beats Argentina like 4-1 or something like that the loss is on Messi and him not tracking back or pressing. Just like if Argentina wins 2-1 it will probably be all thanks to Messi. I respect Messi a lot and he deserves most of the praise in the game but Griezmann is not just doing offensive and magical work but also a lot of tracking back, covering and hes everywhere at once. And while doing that he produced more chances than Messi has so for me Griezmann has been just the better player this tournament. I am so surprised to see so many of you disregard the most vital part of football. Not conceding goals/chances your analysis for why griezmann is better is so flawed its not even funny. youre trying to create a like for like comparison whilst completely ignoring the fact that fundamentally the way both teams play are completely different and the players at the disposal of messi or griezmann are completely different. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25468 Posts
I don’t think he’s lacking in props from the wider football community. I just think it’s conceivable that France make this final without Griezman, but close to inconceivable that Argentina do it without Messi, so that tips the scale a little for me. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8658 Posts
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