EPTFIFA World Cup 2022 - Knockout Stage - Page 77
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KobraKay
Portugal4372 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6313 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
It would take some sort of Messi mastercalss and France disasterclass to stop them from retaining the title. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
Argentina is imo much the same. Messi has looked great - like Mbappe, and both teams have a strong supporting offensive cast. Decent defense, but neither team has the type of midfield that ends up commanding and controlling a game. So fairly good chance we get a high scoring final with moments of individual brilliance, but I honestly haven't been particularly impressed by either of the actual teams - mostly just by their two star players. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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mAKiTO
Colombia4177 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
The team looks really, really good at attacking, but they don't have a dominant midfield (they just gave up majority possession and an equal number of shots to Morocco) and they look fairly frail in the back, particularly on the wings. Their defense was looking pretty desperate until they scored their second. The only strong offense that France has faced was England's, and they gave up two penalties with argument for a third plus numerous strong scoring chances against them. I honestly look at these two teams as fairly similar and I think that it's anybody's game. This should be a great final and I'm hoping for something like 3-2. | ||
Poopi
France13012 Posts
I would say 60-40 for France with neutral referee and probably 40-60 if Argentina keeps getting bonuses ; however Deschamps is a wizard so we might just win? | ||
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Rookie6
Brazil583 Posts
On December 15 2022 08:30 Poopi wrote: I think we are favored if the refs don’t favor Messi too much to try and give him a free star / WC. Mbappe is just too good at the moment and our squad looks a bit more solid than Argentina. I would say 60-40 for France with neutral referee and probably 40-60 if Argentina keeps getting bonuses ; however Deschamps is a wizard so we might just win? Wasn't France favoured by the referee against England? | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
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nojok
France15846 Posts
We have yet to concede a non penalty goal in the knock out stage but apparently the opponent is always the better team. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4430 Posts
On December 15 2022 09:07 Rookie6 wrote: Wasn't France favoured by the referee against England? Only according to the poms. Like how Portugal and Uruguay blamed the referee, much easier than taking responsibility | ||
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sharkie
Austria18726 Posts
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justanothertownie
16342 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6313 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18726 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9959 Posts
On December 15 2022 19:10 sharkie wrote: Yes, Griezmann is just better than Messi: https://twitter.com/OptaJose/status/1603150014314074112?s=20&t=RScLrkjmSyusPxPqaUh4WA Is that supposed to be proof that Griezmann is better? 1 Kylian Mbappe France 5 1 Lionel Messi Argentina 5 3 Olivier Giroud France 4 3 Julian Alvarez Argentina 4 5 Richarlison Brazil 3 5 Gonçalo Ramos Portugal 3 5 Enner Valencia Ecuador 3 5 Bukayo Saka England 3 5 Cody Gakpo Netherlands 3 5 Alvaro Morata Spain 3 5 Marcus Rashford England 3 12 Ferran Torres Spain 2 12 Mehdi Taremi Iran 2 12 Andrej Kramaric Croatia 2 12 Mohammed Kudus Ghana 2 12 Cho Geu-sung South Korea 2 12 Bruno Fernandes Portugal 2 12 Salem Al-Dawsari Saudi Arabia 2 12 Ritsu Doan Japan 2 12 Kai Havertz Germany 2 12 Niclas Fullkrug Germany 2 12 Giorgian de Arrascaeta Uruguay 2 12 Aleksandar Mitrovic Serbia 2 12 Breel Embolo Switzerland 2 12 Vincent Aboubakar Cameroon 2 12 Robert Lewandowski Poland 2 12 Neymar Brazil 2 12 Wout Weghorst Netherlands 2 12 Harry Kane England 2 Here's 29 players that are better than Griezmann Goals are more important. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18726 Posts
On December 15 2022 19:13 Jockmcplop wrote: Is that supposed to be proof that Griezmann is better? Here's 29 players that are better than Griezmann Goals are more important. How many goals of Messi are penalties? | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
On December 15 2022 14:10 nojok wrote: Somehow no one mentions Griezmann's game here? He's the player of the tournament again, for the third time in 4 consecutive major tournaments, no praise, no accolade. We have yet to concede a non penalty goal in the knock out stage but apparently the opponent is always the better team. Not 'the better team', because striker efficiency is obviously important - but you're not dominating the play. France vs England saw England with 16 (8) shots (on target) vs 8 (5) for France. England also had 57-43 possession. xG was something like 2.3 vs 1.25. While possession can be somewhat of a stylistic choice, having fewer qualified goalscoring opportunities than your opponent isn't - that's caused by the other team 'being better' at certain, important, aspects of the game. Vs Morocco, possession was 61% (Morocco) -39%, shots 14 (3) -13 (3) in favor of France. Essentially even - but the moroccan players just.. didn't shoot when they were in good positions, while France had one nice finish and one deflection that ended up in just the right spot. Efficiency is obviously huge - but the idea is that efficiency is 'more random' across single games than 'match domination' is. Thus, wins that are yielded from being a more efficient team are less valuable in terms of predicting future performance than wins that are yielded from being the dominant team. If team a has 80% possession and wins the shots statistic 25-5, they were generally consistently the better team across the entire match, no matter what the score line shows - and, a rematch between the same teams will be quite likely to result in a game that looks much the same. Whereas if one team wins while being behind on all the non-goal parameters, the outcome is dependent on a much smaller number of actions having a similar outcome. Like say one striker has a 60% chance of scoring in a given situation while another has a 40% chance at scoring in the same situation, that's a big difference and that difference will decide the outcome of plenty games. However, there might only be ~1 situation like that occurring every single game - so assuming everything else is equal, the team with the 40% striker will still win or draw quite frequently. However if a team consistently has 10% higher pass accuracy (from similar passes, not just because they're making easier passes), this will manifest itself far, far more times during a game, and it will result in the team looking 'dominant'. France has looked efficient - not dominant, and thus, I'm left with the impression that their game vs Argentina is going to boil down to how they perform in a few key situations, not that they're going to be in full control of the game. Now - I think the same thing largely applies to Argentina. While their game vs Croatia ended up looking comfortable, they weren't dominating that one either. (Vs Netherlands they were more dominant, even though that was a closer game.) I don't think it's really possible to gel national teams to look like Pep teams do, but this is kinda the difference between Pep and Mourinho. Pep teams tend to dominate all the metrics (not just possession), while Mourinho teams have tended towards being more efficient. Mourinho has some very nice accomplishments as a manager - and I think his approach is more likely to give a Champions League win to Porto or Inter (or an EC win to Greece), but his teams have basically never (maybe an exception for the first spell at Chelsea) looked 'dominant'. | ||
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